The Greensboro Triumph Center

[cityboi]

Long time lurker ... 1st time poster -

If what Gibbs has said about this big mamma is true then we needn't be too concerned about the Raleigh development. I'm convinced that the final price will exceed $200 million dollars. I think we are all going to be blown away at the size and scope of this project. "Project X" will become Greensboro's field of dreams - "if you build it, they will come". It should be the catalyst that kicks downtown Greensboro into a gear its never seen. Don't be surprised to hear several additional announcments of MAJOR supporting projects shortly after this one is revealed. This development has the potiental to quickly lead downtown Greensboro to become a major southeast entertainment and cultural destination. I'm not saying that boardings at PTI will spike upwards (though it will help), but when you obtain the right mix of entertainment venues, restaurants, and lodging in a downtown district - it becomes a magnet for development ...

-Iron sharpens Iron ...

Welcome BlueJ I agree. The media did say it would top $200 million meaning it would be more than $200 million. Usually developments always end up costing more in the end anyway. But obviously the developers are shooting for the LARGEST plan of this project. The entertainment venues envisioned for Greensboro's complex are more "significant" than whats planned for the Raleigh Complex....In other words, Raleigh's complex probabally wont have venues like the House of Blues and would be similar to Charlotte's EpiCentre without the hotel. Greensboro's complex would be in another whole league and is intended to attract visitors more than 2 hours from Greensboro by car. This is a mixed-use tourist attraction that combines convention, office, residential, and shopping, not just a local entertainment project. As a source said, Greensboro's complex can be larger in scope than the epicenter. The goal of the developers is to make Greensboro's complex a "Southeast destination" not just a local/regional destination.

btw...you sound like you know some things. I think former downtown club owner Joey Medoloni knows something because he made the comment that he believes in 10 years Greensboro can become the Los Angeles of the east coast and he wasnt joking when he said that. MTV and Extra have already sent camera crews to downtown Greensboro to do stories on the city's downtown nightlife.

a fellow forumer here who knows exactly what this project is says this project can be so big (in impact) that he could see Greensboro and the Triad returning back to being the leading metro in the state and he said Greensboro is a sleeping giant.....I know its hard to imagine but I think we could be VERY shocked once EVERYTHING is revealed about this project. Ray Gibbs of Downtown Greensboro, Inc said once plans are revealed, everyones jaws are going to drop. The mayor, who also knows, said this project is "off the charts".

[ezcheese]

I actually hope that this project is not big enough to push Greensboro into overdrive. One of the things I like about living here is the slower pace. I can still find most of the stuff I want to do here but Greensboro has a very small town feel and I really like that.

I will be moving up to Lexington, Kentucky next summer and will live there for several years before my girlfriend and I will be able to move back to Greensboro. If Greensboro becomes too big for its britches, I don't know if we will want to move back here and set up shop for the rest of our lives like we have been planning. Growth for Greensboro is definitely good - if it's sustainable and smart.

I just hope that when it comes time to re-evaluate Greensboro as a place to live out the rest of my life that it hasn't changed so much that I don't recognize it.

[roningreensboro]

I have been on vacation and not able to keep up with the blog but from all the post, has Greensboro landed the deal?

[cityboi]

I have been on vacation and not able to keep up with the blog but from all the post, has Greensboro landed the deal?

not officially....its still not a done deal..but the mayor said the odds have improved dramatically based on info that he is getting. Two things need to happen to make his a done.

One, the sites need to be assembled in place for purchase fairly quickly (within a few months).

Two, cooperation with city in regards to potential city support through incentives (maybe parking deck, street, sidewalk improvements) Hopefully city council's more conservative members such as Tom Phillips wont tried to slow this project down or vote against it over a minor detail.

If either one of those things take too long, the developers will build this project in another city.

[roningreensboro]

not officially....its still not a done deal..but the mayor said the odds have improved dramatically based on info that he is getting. Two things need to happen to make his a done.

One, the sites need to be assembled in place for purchase fairly quickly (within a few months).

Two, cooperation with city in regards to potential city support through incentives (maybe parking deck, street, sidewalk improvements) Hopefully city council's more conservative members such as Tom Phillips wont tried to slow this project down or vote against it over a minor detail.

If either one of those things take too long, the developers will build this project in another city.

Thanks for the up date.

[JerseyBoy]

If either one of those things take too long, the developers will build this project in another city.

Doesn't sound like they're real committed to Greensboro.

[cityboi]

Doesn't sound like they're real committed to Greensboro.

They are commited...but if a city acts like its not interest in them investing there $200 million plus here, they will move elsewhere....BUT.....I believe the city is on the ball with this and potential land deals are being being put together.

[suburban george3]

btw...you sound like you know some things. I think former downtown club owner Joey Medoloni knows something because he made the comment that he believes in 10 years Greensboro can become the Los Angeles of the east coast and he wasnt joking when he said that. MTV and Extra have already sent camera crews to downtown Greensboro to do stories on the city's downtown nightlife.

Greensboro the L.A. of the East Coast??? Maybe in sprawl... nightlife and entertainment? That's a stretch even with this proposed development. I think this whole project, while good for Greensboro and the Triad, is definetly being oversold.

[cityboi]

Greensboro the L.A. of the East Coast??? Maybe in sprawl... nightlife and entertainment? That's a stretch even with this proposed development. I think this whole project, while good for Greensboro and the Triad, is definetly being oversold.

"Their goal is to create a destination for the region - THE SOUTHEAST REGION,"

"The concept of such all-in-one tourist/convention destinations - A KIND OF THEMEPARK WITHOUT ROLLER COASTERS OR WATERSLIDES - is an idea whose times is arriving Gibbs insists"

"if it can be accomplished, a project like this could truely change the dynamics of Greensboro. it will show that we can compete on a national scale."

"As soon as they get a letter of intent on some land, the plans will be announced," he says "Thats when PEOPLES'S JAWS WILL DROP"

"Gibbs insists to the astonishment and bewilderment of many, that a group of mostly INTERNATIONAL investors is absolutely serious about its desire to invest $150 million or more into a COLOSSAL mixed-use project downtown"

doesnt sound over sold to me considering the man who made this statements is the direct point person to the developers.

[DanRNC]

Greensboro the L.A. of the East Coast???

Maybe the guy is insane. Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

[cityboi]

Maybe the guy is insane. Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

He certainly wasnt insane to single handedly transform Greensboro's downtown nightlife. When he opened his first club (The N Club) people thought it wouldnt even last a year.

[JerseyBoy]

Maybe the guy is insane. Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Agreed

[twincity]

wassup with Greensboro's adjectives these days? first it was the largest downtown entertainment development in NC history and now LA of the east coast? wow!

[RALNATIVE]

wassup with Greensboro's adjectives these days? first it was the largest downtown entertainment development in NC history and now LA of the east coast? wow!

hey---Rome didn't happen overnight, but let's not give cityboi any more ideas.

[cityboi]

hey---Rome didn't happen overnight, but let's not give cityboi any more ideas.

I think Greensboeo can be the next Rome

[ChiefJoJo]

My worry is that the Raleigh entertainent development will overshadow the greensboro development . If they sign some of the same tenants, why would people from the triangle drive to greensboro???? It is $300 million, no small potato!

FYI, the project is called "Crabtree Creek" (formerly Galleria and Crabtree Towne Center) and it's being discussed here. FWIW I don't think the Crabtree project is regional at all. Yeah, it's got a movie theater (that area lacks one) and more retail, residential and office space, but (1) it's not downtown, and (2) I seriously doubt this has any affect on anything in Greensboro whatsoever.

Now, I'll be very interested to see how this Greensboro project would attract folks from CLT and RDU. I'm skeptical. The NASCAR Hall of Fame is certainly an urban regional draw... we'll see what comes of this.

[RALNATIVE]

Now, I'll be very interested to see how this Greensboro project would attract folks from CLT and RDU. I'm skeptical. The NASCAR Hall of Fame is certainly an urban regional draw... we'll see what comes of this.

One question that I have about this development is access from the interstates. As we all know, there are no easy and good routes into downtown Greensboro from 40/85, and downtown is several miles off the interstate. It think that this factor alone will deter alot of people from out of town.

[cityboi]

One question that I have about this development is access from the interstates. As we all know, there are no easy and good routes into downtown Greensboro from 40/85, and downtown is several miles off the interstate. It think that this factor alone will deter alot of people from out of town.

when you think of it, downtown is not really that far from the interstates....only a few miles and its a stragiht shot into downtown on Freeman Mill Road, Elm-Eugene Street and Lee Street (all cross over I-40). I think if people from Burlington, Winston and High Point have no problem making it to downtown to go to the clubs, it wont be an issue with this potential development. I think the development will have more than enough drawing power to bring people into downtown.

Raleigh is in a similar situation to Greensboro in that it doesnt have an interstate highway that goes through downtown, yet we are seeing major things such as a convention center/hotel being built there. Developers realize now that they dont have to build right on the edge of the interstates anymore....I think that kind of thinking is going away, thank god. Some people are skeptical because its hard to believe a "Southeast U.S. regional destination" can be built all in the space of about 6 to 10 acres. But according to one of my sources, the media certainly doesnt know all the detail and I just dont think this is your ordinary entertainment complex. For one thing it has been described as a themepark with out roller coasters and has attractions for families, children and singles. Also its not all about entertainment either. But right now its a waiting game to see what this project is and who is behind it. Its got to be pretty big to have mainly international developers involved. Certainly there were no international developers involved with EpiCentre and according to a source, the large plan for this secret project would dwarf EpiCentre in size and scope. International developers/investors arent going to jump into a project thats just going to be a typical entertainment complex and a developer is not going to scout cities around the south for a typical entertainment complex either. Also according to a reliable sources, this is a new concept and Greensboro would be the first for a project like this (test devlopment). Eventually these "US regional " projects would be built in select cities around the country.

[crowe1856]

Raleigh is in a similar situation to Greensboro in that it doesnt have an interstate highway that goes through downtown, yet we are seeing major things such as a convention center/hotel being built there. Developers realize now that they dont have to build right on the edge of the interstates anymore...

In all fairness, is there a city in America that doesn't have a downtown convention center, ballpark, or entertainment center in the works? I think investment in a city's core is more a cyclical trend than anything to do with the town's transit structure. I don't think highway access is a "make or break" for a project of this nature, but there's a reason cities grew up along railroads & river/sea ports; accessibility. I think GSO missed the boat when the interstates came through, and wonder what impact a "regional destination" will have have on traffic not only downtown, but on the city's few main arterials.

...this is a new concept and Greensboro would be the first for a project like this (test devlopment). Eventually these "US regional " projects would be built in select cities around the country.

I'm gonna withhold judgment until the plans are released, but is anyone else wary of how much the city may give up in incentives for a "test" development? Hopefully we don't mortgage our future on what may be the real estate equivalent of "OK Cola" or "3-in-1 McDonald's".

[DanRNC]

When he opened his first club (The N Club) people thought it wouldnt even last a year.

If this guy is responsible for this development, god help the shadowy "international" investors. Hot body contests and Libido parties? Give me a break.

[cityboi]

In all fairness, is there a city in America that doesn't have a downtown convention center, ballpark, or entertainment center in the works? I think investment in a city's core is more a cyclical trend than anything to do with the town's transit structure. I don't think highway access is a "make or break" for a project of this nature, but there's a reason cities grew up along railroads & river/sea ports; accessibility. I think GSO missed the boat when the interstates came through, and wonder what impact a "regional destination" will have have on traffic not only downtown, but on the city's few main arterials.

I'm gonna withhold judgment until the plans are released, but is anyone else wary of how much the city may give up in incentives for a "test" development? Hopefully we don't mortgage our future on what may be the real estate equivalent of "OK Cola" or "3-in-1 McDonald's".

well it doesnt sound like they are asking for alot...maybe enough to build a parking deck..but my god they are talking abount investing more than $200 million so they shouldnt be asking for alot of incentives in the first place. Not every city is building entertainment complexes downtown...mainly its the big cities doing it and certainly there is no city Greensboro's size building anything remotely close to what these developers have in mind.

If this guy is responsible for this development, god help the shadowy "international" investors. Hot body contests and Libido parties? Give me a break.

well these developers are talking about building something thats more family oriented so I dont know if you'll see wet t-shirt contests in this development.

[RALNATIVE]

Raleigh is in a similar situation to Greensboro in that it doesnt have an interstate highway that goes through downtown, yet we are seeing major things such as a convention center/hotel being built there.

Raleigh's downtown is at most 1 mile off of I-40 if you take either S. Saunders St. or Hammond Rd. exits and you can clearly see Raleigh's DT from the interstate whereas Greensboro's is not visible. There is also the 440 beltline that wraps around downtown which makes downtown easily accessible from many routes like Glenwood Ave. and Capital Blvd., so I would not use Raleigh as a comparison.

[cityboi]

Raleigh's downtown is at most 1 mile off of I-40 if you take either S. Saunders St. or Hammond Rd. exits and you can clearly see Raleigh's DT from the interstate whereas Greensboro's is not visible. There is also the 440 beltline that wraps around downtown which makes downtown easily accessible from many routes like Glenwood Ave. and Capital Blvd., so I would not use Raleigh as a comparison.

I dont think skyline visibilty is used as a determining factor in what kind of development goes downtown, But there are points on I-40 where the tops of Greensboro's skyline is clearly visible, mainly at the Business 85/I-40 merge and the I-40 bridge over Lee Street.

[triadguy37]

there is no city Greensboro's size building anything remotely close to what these developers have in mind.

I think your are forgetting that the ball stadium, retail/shopping, office and residential that Billy Prim is building in downtown Winston is proposed to be 189 million. So 150 million for Greensboro is really not that significant.

[cityboi]

I think your are forgetting that the ball stadium, retail/shopping, office and residential that Billy Prim is building in downtown Winston is proposed to be 189 million. So 150 million for Greensboro is really not that significant.

once again you are forgetting that the size and scope of this project is far bigger than what Billy Prim has planned. Billy Prim certainly doesnt have a 600 room luxury hotel, convention center, IMAX and MAJOR 2,000 seat entertainment venues that attracts big time national acts and other tourist attractions in his plan. The cost of the project has nothing to do with what kind of impact it will have on the region. But the estimates are above $200 million now just to let you know. Something thats $75 million can actually be more significant than something that $125 million. There is no arguement about how big this potential development is. There are statements in the media that proves this and its no longer speculation. We know its a very significant development and we also know what DGI president Ray Gibbs said about this project, which I mentioned about 6 posts ago.