The Greensboro Triumph Center

[cityboi]

But those aren't details; all of that is quite vague and could mean any number of things. So no, I can't agree that the concept is what it has been hyped up to be. Convention centers larger than Raleigh's and Charlotte's? "LA of the East Coast"? Nah, I can't agree with all of that.

There doesnt have to be any details......but im sure there are though, juist not revealed to the public. A concept is not the same as a detailed project. Although concepts development into real projects. Again I say that the concept is what it is hyped up to be unless you conider comments like "southeast destination" not to be true, which in this case it is true. that is the developer's goal here. Even though the project is vague, we have some basic descriptions here that reveals how big this project could be. Ignore all that stuff about LA of the East coast because that comment has nothing to do with this project anyway. Joey Medaloni was saying that about downtown in general and I too thought that comment was riduculous. As for the convention center's size, it could be as large as the convention center in Raleigh or Charlotte. Who says just because Greensboro is smaller than those cities, we have to have smaller venues? But the truth of the matter is we dont know how big the convention center will be but as we have talked about all through this thread, this project is obviously much more than a convention center and hotel even though some here are making it out to be just a convention center. But again I think the reason why there is so much skepticism here is because this is Greensboro and it sounds like this kind of thing should be built in cities like Charlotte or bigger. Its not the project, its where the project is being proposed. So in our minds the only way we can make sense of it is to say that this project is being overhyped or it wont get built or it will be scaled back. Why dont we just admit that?

From the Triad Business Journal

The investors obviously see something in Greensboro that locals rarely see themselves. Locals tend to scratch their heads and ask: If this is such a great idea, why the heck are you looking here?

"We have to show that we want them here," Gibbs says. "But that gets difficult when everyone immediately asks -- why Greensboro? They hear that over and over. And they say, "We're real. This is a good location. Why are you trying to talk us out of it?'"

[suburban george3]

I truly hope a 'project of significance' comes out of this project. I know certain posters in this forum have already 'sold' themselves on an extremely large convention center with multiple retail outlets and hotels attached. 'The House of Blues' has been thrown around as a tenant. Let's be honest here folks; believers, supporters, and skeptics alike, NOTHING presented so far is fact, all we have is hype from certain developers/officials.

I do find it hard for a convention complex to make Greensboro a 'major' national destination. Regional? Maybe. This project bringing Greensboro and the Triad region back to prominence in the state? Doubtful, much more significant changes in industry, education, and governmental leadership must happen for that to occur.

This thread 'continues' to pit supporter vs. skeptics. Can we wait for something significant to be released in the media instead of spreading this unfounded gossip and bickering?

[cityboi]

I truly hope a 'project of significance' comes out of this project. I know certain posters in this forum have already 'sold' themselves on an extremely large convention center with multiple retail outlets and hotels attached. 'The House of Blues' has been thrown around as a tenant. Let's be honest here folks; believers, supporters, and skeptics alike, NOTHING presented so far is fact, all we have is hype from certain developers/officials.

I do find it hard for a convention complex to make Greensboro a 'major' national destination. Regional? Maybe. This project bringing Greensboro and the Triad region back to prominence in the state? Doubtful, much more significant changes in industry, education, and governmental leadership must happen for that to occur.

This thread 'continues' to pit supporter vs. skeptics. Can we wait for something significant to be released in the media instead of spreading this unfounded gossip and bickering?

Why do people here keep making this out to be just a convention center? Why do people keep belittling this project? People talk of not having enough information on this to speculate, yet it works the same both ways...what evidence do you have to say this wont be as big as it is hyped to be?

also what doesnt make sense to me is the negativity towards the specualtion. Its almost like some people are P'd off to even hear that this thing could be really huge. I also question why a few people have not even replied to this thread since it was started back in May. You would at least expect to hear "This could be great for Greensboro, I hope it happens" or something like that.

From the Triad Business Journal

The investors obviously see something in Greensboro that locals rarely see themselves. Locals tend to scratch their heads and ask: If this is such a great idea, why the heck are you looking here?

"We have to show that we want them here," Gibbs says. "But that gets difficult when everyone immediately asks -- why Greensboro? They hear that over and over. And they say, "We're real. This is a good location. Why are you trying to talk us out of it?'"

[suburban george3]

Why do people here keep making this out to be just a convention center? Why do people keep belittling this project? People talk of not having enough information on this to speculate, yet it works the same both ways...what evidence do you have to say this wont be as big as it is hyped to be?

also what doesnt make sense to me is the negativity towards the specualtion. Its almost like some people are P'd off to even hear that this thing could be really huge. I also question why a few people have not even replied to this thread since it was started back in May. You would at least expect to hear "This could be great for Greensboro, I hope it happens" or something like that.

From the Triad Business Journal

The investors obviously see something in Greensboro that locals rarely see themselves. Locals tend to scratch their heads and ask: If this is such a great idea, why the heck are you looking here?

"We have to show that we want them here," Gibbs says. "But that gets difficult when everyone immediately asks -- why Greensboro? They hear that over and over. And they say, "We're real. This is a good location. Why are you trying to talk us out of it?'"

I DON'T have evidence that it's not going to be as big as it is been 'hyped' up to be... however EVERY quote has been vague and crafted to not give any kind of specific information. If what we know about this project were to presented as a case in court, it would be thrown out for purely circumstantial evidence.

This could indeed by a 'good' project for Greensboro. I am a solid booster of the area, but have seen other planned projects fall thru in many metro area including the Triad. Based on the rarity of these type projects coming thru our area, the odds that it may not happen are indeed greater.

I want the Triad to seek things out bigger than what were used to and to 'reach for the brass rings' so to say. I want the Triad to be a more prominent, if not the prominent region of NC. I just have reservations about this project coming to fruition. I will say, for all posters who are skeptics, to have our posts 'replied' to and 'challenged' within five minutes of posting by the 'topic keeper' is getting a little annoying.

[cityboi]

I DON'T have evidence that it's not going to be as big as it is been 'hyped' up to be... however EVERY quote has been vague and crafted to not give any kind of specific information. If what we know about this project were to presented as a case in court, it would be thrown out for purely circumstantial evidence.

This could indeed by a 'good' project for Greensboro. I am a solid booster of the area, but have seen other planned projects fall thru in many metro area including the Triad. Based on the rarity of these type projects coming thru our area, the odds that it may not happen are indeed greater.

I want the Triad to seek things out bigger than what were used to and to 'reach for the brass rings' so to say. I want the Triad to be a more prominent, if not the prominent region of NC. I just have reservations about this project coming to fruition. I will say, for all posters who are skeptics, to have our posts 'replied' to and 'challenged' within five minutes of posting by the 'topic keeper' is getting a little annoying.

ok first lets cool down here and not let this get heated. Honestly, I dont see how replying to a post in less than 5 minutes makes a person annoyed. That doesnt make any sense to me. Whether I reply in 1 minute or rather I reply in 12 hours, what does it matter?

Why do you have reservations about this project happning? There has to be something that makes you think it wont happen?

From the Triad Business Journal

The investors obviously see something in Greensboro that locals rarely see themselves. Locals tend to scratch their heads and ask: If this is such a great idea, why the heck are you looking here?

"We have to show that we want them here," Gibbs says. "But that gets difficult when everyone immediately asks -- why Greensboro? They hear that over and over. And they say, "We're real. This is a good location. Why are you trying to talk us out of it?'"

[JerseyBoy]

This (as Suburban George observantly pointed out) has become a thread where all we do is bicker about this project we know nothing about. Just because someone's intentions are to make this project a southeast destination doesn't mean it's set in stone. That's what's called an opinion, a hopeful opinion at that my friend. As for the hotel, convention center, retail, offices, theme-park, night-club, and residential () development, that's just what he wants to put in there. Until you have renderings that show those places and possibly some signed tenants I could hardly say any of those places previously mentioned are fact. The colossal & mega supporters of this project need to learn that it is still just a proposal, nothing more than that. I would like nothing more than for Greensboro to get this project because every one of us living in the Triad will probably in some way or another benefit from it. It's not a matter of jealously towards G'boro, Cityboi. Some people are just highly skeptical of this, that's all. You can only cram so much into a development, and it sounds like we have everything under the sun in this thing. If this was just a modest mixed-use development, then I'd have a much easier time believing it.

[cityboi]

This (as Suburban George observantly pointed out) has become a thread where all we do is bicker about this project we know nothing about. Just because someone's intentions are to make this project a southeast destination doesn't mean it's set in stone. That's what's called an opinion, a hopeful opinion at that my friend. As for the hotel, convention center, retail, offices, theme-park, night-club, and residential () development, that's just what he wants to put in there. Until you have renderings that show those places and possibly some signed tenants I could hardly say any of those places previously mentioned are fact. The colossal & mega supporters of this project need to learn that it is still just a proposal, nothing more than that. I would like nothing more than for Greensboro to get this project because every one of us living in the Triad will probably in some way or another benefit from it. It's not a matter of jealously towards G'boro, Cityboi. Some people are just highly skeptical of this, that's all.

the thing is...some are convinced it wont happen or believe it will be dramatically scaled down. But I never said this project was set in stone. People are missing the whole point here. I said the CONCEPT was as big as its hyped up to be. I clearly distinguished concept from a detailed plan. Some people here are saying that the concept is not big at all and is nothing more than a convention hotel that the developers are talking about when they clearly said their goal was to make this project a destination for the southeast. Thats what im talking about. People keep saying its just a convention center when its more to it. I think all these "BIG" proposals will make more sense to the skeptics once they see what this project actually is though. The mayor of Greensboro isnt going to say "breathtaking" and "off the charts" over a convention center. The point I was trying to make was that the proposed CONCEPT is HUGE. The project may happend the way it was conceptualized, maybe not. We will find out when the plans are announced. I think there has to be a reason the developers are proposing a convention center in a city that already has a convention center. The reason has to do with the "things" that are being proposed to be built with the convention center. There is a relationship between everything being proposed in this project.

[krazeeboi]

Firstly cityboi, I think people get annoyed when you post the same excerpt three times in bold font. There's really no need for that; I think we got the point the first time around.

Secondly, you need to distinguish between being pessimistic and being cautious. There's nothing wrong with imagining the possibilities of what this project could do for Greensboro, but Greensboro hasn't even landed the project yet. That's why you should excercise a bit of cautious optimism.

Thirdly, everyone here pretty much realizes that this is a mixed-use proposal here and will consist of much more than just convention space. However, the dollar figure we've heard tossed around has been in the neighborhood of $150 million - $200 million. The fact of the matter is that that's only going to get you so much, and I seriously doubt that would include a convention center with over 800K square feet of space (which is about the size of Charlotte's convention center). So it's not about people expressing doubt that Greensboro could have something bigger than Raleigh or Charlotte; hell, Greensboro has the largest arena in the state, so that's not even an issue. It's just simple common sense here given the little information we do have on this proposal. I'm trying to understand why that seems to be so hard to understand.

Fourthly, you say that the "concept is as huge as it is hyped up to be." The question is, which concept? You keep harping on the biggest, most costly version of this proposal when there is a very good chance that a significantly scaled-down version could occur if Greensboro even lands this. So being that there's more than one version of this big "concept" going around, I can't agree that it's "as huge as it is hyped up to be."

[twincity]

why does the title keep changing?

[cityboi]

Firstly cityboi, I think people get annoyed when you post the same excerpt three times in bold font. There's really no need for that; I think we got the point the first time around.

Secondly, you need to distinguish between being pessimistic and being cautious. There's nothing wrong with imagining the possibilities of what this project could do for Greensboro, but Greensboro hasn't even landed the project yet. That's why you should excercise a bit of cautious optimism.

Thirdly, everyone here pretty much realizes that this is a mixed-use proposal here and will consist of much more than just convention space. However, the dollar figure we've heard tossed around has been in the neighborhood of $150 million - $200 million. The fact of the matter is that that's only going to get you so much, and I seriously doubt that would include a convention center with over 800K square feet of space (which is about the size of Charlotte's convention center). So it's not about people expressing doubt that Greensboro could have something bigger than Raleigh or Charlotte; hell, Greensboro has the largest arena in the state, so that's not even an issue. It's just simple common sense here given the little information we do have on this proposal. I'm trying to understand why that seems to be so hard to understand.

Fourthly, you say that the "concept is as huge as it is hyped up to be." The question is, which concept? You keep harping on the biggest, most costly version of this proposal when there is a very good chance that a significantly scaled-down version could occur if Greensboro even lands this. So being that there's more than one version of this big "concept" going around, I can't agree that it's "as huge as it is hyped up to be."

"cityboi, I think people get annoyed when you post the same excerpt three times in bold font. There's really no need for that; I think we got the point the first time around." apparently they dont.

Well I think we should hold off on the the dollar amount because the project could go beyond $200 million. It seems to keep going up because at one time the limit was $150 million, that was the cost of the largest plan in the begining. obviously if the dollar amount is going up on this proposal, they are going for a larger plan. From what I understand there isnt a final dollar amount YET, it could be more than $200 million and who knows..before its all over with it could top $300 million. Acording to Ray Gibbs, some other investors have gotten involved to help grow this project. But being very optimistic about a project, even if Greensboro hasnt landed it shouldnt annoy the hell out of people. Thats why I questioned peoples negative response towards this project. There should be no reason for these heated discussions what so ever. If they want to believe this thing wont happen...fine thats their right

[JerseyBoy]

I don't think it's the project that's annoying the people, I think it's you. I understand you want nothing but good things for Greensboro, but please try to be a little bit more modest in your updates on this project.

[krazeeboi]

Well I think we should hold off on the the dollar amount because the project could go beyond $200 million. It seems to keep going up because at one time the limit was $150 million, that was the cost of the largest plan in the begining. obviously if the dollar amount is going up on this proposal, they are going for a larger plan. From what I understand there isnt a final dollar amount YET, it could be more than $200 million and who knows..before its all over with it could top $300 million. Acording to Ray Gibbs, some other investors have gotten involved to help grow this project. But being very optimistic about a project, even if Greensboro hasnt landed it shouldnt annoy the hell out out of people. thats why I questioned peoples negative response towards this project. There should be no reason for these heated discussions what so ever.

But see, this is my point: even with the dollar amount, all we have is speculation. Just because the dollar amount is increasing doesn't necessarily mean that more is going into this project. Construction costs are pretty much at an all-time high now. So all I'm saying is that we just don't know, we don't have details, and we don't have a firm, solid concept, only variations on a very broad theme. I'm not sure why it upsets you that people are advising you to be cautious about this given all of the "if's" and "maybe's" surrounding this project. Again, what you perceive as being negative others see as being cautious and treading lightly given the little we know about the project.

And to be honest, I don't really think anyone is really "heated" except you, and that's only because you are wrongly interpreting what a lot of people are saying here as I just stated.

[cityboi]

I don't think it's the project that's annoying the people, I think it's you. I understand you want nothing but good things for Greensboro, but please try to be a little bit more modest in your updates on this project.

You just proved my point......why get annoyed because im optimistic about this...why is that so wrong?

But see, this is my point: even with the dollar amount, all we have is speculation. Just because the dollar amount is increasing doesn't necessarily mean that more is going into this project. Construction costs are pretty much at an all-time high now. So all I'm saying is that we just don't know, we don't have details, and we don't have a firm, solid concept, only variations on a very broad theme. I'm not sure why it upsets you that people are advising you to be cautious about this given all of the "if's" and "maybe's" surrounding this project. Again, what you perceive as being negative others see as being cautious and treading lightly given the little we know about the project.

And to be honest, I don't really think anyone is really "heated" except you, and that's only because you are wrongly interpreting what a lot of people are saying here as I just stated.

no but some people have made smart comments along with their so called skepticism.

but im not upset......but apparently other people are, over what I dont know. Some people are upset just because I reply within 5 minutes of their post.

[JerseyBoy]

You just proved my point......why get annoyed because im optimistic about this...why is that so wrong?

Being optimistic and overzealous are two different things.

[cityboi]

Being optimistic and overzealous are two different things.

whats wrong with being extremly enthusiastic? what if im right about all this stuff?

[jednc]

What kind of attractions could be in this that the developers would have to look at a 2 hour drive radius around Greensboro? What kind of attractions would lure people by car from as far away as Rock Hill, SC or Lynchburg, VA to spend a day in Greensboro? Think about that for a minute.

Doesn't that flee market in Hillsville, Va. do just that? This is a quote from their website: "this (is) one of the largest shows in the southeast. Hillsville expects to draw over 500,000 visitors..."

500,000 visitors to downtown GSO would be great huh?

Edit: Oh, and yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Why does the name of this thread keep changing?

[krazeeboi]

I think the overzealousness surrounding this project is because Greensboro would be able to boast of having something that either Charlotte or the Triangle don't have, i.e. bragging rights. That's nice, and there's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but everything should be kept into perspective. Allow Greensboro and the Triad to follow its own path to greatness and forget about "catching" Charlotte or the Triangle.

[jednc]

I think the overzealousness surrounding this project is because Greensboro would be able to boast of having something that either Charlotte or the Triangle don't have, i.e. bragging rights. That's nice, and there's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but everything should be kept into perspective. Allow Greensboro and the Triad to follow its own path to greatness and forget about "catching" Charlotte or the Triangle.

Agreed. Greensboro is already a great city with so much history and atmosphere. There is def. no need for a "keeping up with the Joneses" attitude.

[RALNATIVE]

We do have solid facts in what the developers said about the project and that is that their goal is for this to be a southeast destination with entertainment venues for all ages and some attracting national acts.

When did they ever state that this was going to be a southeast destination? I only recall hearing that they wanted this project to attract people from as far as 2 hrs away, and all of a sudden it was turned into a southeast destination. That did not come from them, it came from you...

[JerseyBoy]

whats wrong with being extremly enthusiastic? what if im right about all this stuff?

Well if you are I'll buy you lunch on the day of your choice. Though if this thing lives up to it's hype you most likely won't see the affect till a year or two down the road.

[blueJ]

When did they ever state that this was going to be a southeast destination? I only recall hearing that they wanted this project to attract people from as far as 2 hrs away, and all of a sudden it was turned into a southeast destination. That did not come from them, it came from you...

RALNATIVE - I hate to say it but that didn't come from cityboi ... it came from Gibbs. I know this because I saved that paper. The article was in Triad Biz Journal (June 1-7 edition). Gibbs stated, and I quote "The goal is to create a destination for the region - the Southeast region Gibbs says carefully". I'm sure that when cityboi reads this that he'll post the entire article again for us all to read ... (again) !

[cityboi]

RALNATIVE - I hate to say it but that didn't come from cityboi ... it came from Gibbs. I know this because I saved that paper. The article was in Triad Biz Journal (June 1-7 edition). Gibbs stated, and I quote "The goal is to create a destination for the region - the Southeast region Gibbs says carefully". I'm sure that when cityboi reads this that he'll post the entire article again for us all to read ... (again) !

LOL You see why I have to keep repeating my self over and over and over and over again. People only read what they want to read. I think it shows that some of these people are not just being skeptical.

another revealing quote:

"The concept of such all-in-one tourist/convention destinations -- a kind of theme park without roller coasters or water slides -- is an idea whose time is arriving, Gibbs insists."

"Shorter vacations, high gas prices and concerns about security are all conspiring to compel travelers to stay closer to home. The investors know, Gibbs says, that several million people live within a two-hour drive of Greensboro. It's a prime central location, they believe, made more appealing by a revitalizing downtown scene."

Here is the entire article again. Please read it RALNATIVE, and others who I know have not read it. You'll see that all this stuff im say isnt coming from me at all.

http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories...4/tidbits1.html

[RALNATIVE]

LOL You see why I have to keep repeating my self over and over and over and over agian. People only read what they want to read. I think it shows that some of these people are not just being skeptical.

another revealing quote:

"The concept of such all-in-one tourist/convention destinations -- a kind of theme park without roller coasters or water slides -- is an idea whose time is arriving, Gibbs insists."

Here is the entire article again. Please read it RALNATIVE, and others who I know have not read it. You'll see that all this stuff im say isnt coming from me at all.

http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories...4/tidbits1.html

But that statement about a southeast destination was made by Ray Gibbs, who has made some untrue statements about this project in the past. Also, it's funny that he would say it carefully:

"The goal is to create a destination for the region -- the Southeast region," Gibbs says carefully.

Then he goes on to say that they hope to attract people from as far as 2 hours away. Why would he call this a southeast destination if they expect to attract people from as far as 2 hours away. A 2 hour radius would barely cover central NC. As krazeeboi indicated, I have a hard time seeing people and their children coming from all over the southeast to Greensboro to stay in downtown at this "luxury" hotel just to enjoy the entertainment venues at this complex. Have you seen gas prices lately? Furthermore, how are they expecting to fill up a 300-600 room "luxury" hotel week after week in order to justify this? And when we talk about a $200 million max budget for the entire development, something just doesn't add up.

There are just so many inconsistencies with the statements being made about this project. That is the reason most people are so skeptical. It's going to be virtually impossible for Ray Gibbs or cityboi to change minds on this. Until the mystery developers come forward, and make statements of their own, people will continue to question this project.

[JerseyBoy]

Cityboi, there is no need to keep repeating yourself over and over again as you state. Some people are skeptical of this, deal with it. You do not have to constantly shove this down everyone's throats.

[RALBOI]

I think the overzealousness surrounding this project is because Greensboro would be able to boast of having something that either Charlotte or the Triangle don't have, i.e. bragging rights. That's nice, and there's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, but everything should be kept into perspective. Allow Greensboro and the Triad to follow its own path to greatness and forget about "catching" Charlotte or the Triangle.

That's one of the best quote's I have read in awhile.