The Greensboro Triumph Center

[cityboi]

It shouldn't be surprising that the developers are seeking additional properties around the primary site. We're really still unsure of that "primary" site but it appears that the Church street "area" seems to be the focal point. Properties adjacent to new development almost always attract renewed interest. This could also be an indication that the proposal is moving along quite well and that additional land is desired or needed. We know that we're not being told everything (hardly anything !), but could this be a smokescreen in order to conceal another possible site ? I could be wrong, but I don't believe the former North State chevrolet site is tied into this mega project for several reasons: ... #1-distance from the Church Street area, #2-drilling was seen on the properties, yet negotiations are still ongoing (or so we're told) with property owners for the main site, #3- The owners of the North State properties stated earlier that there was interest in the site from other developers ...

I said all along that the Church Street site was best for this project. There are sveral parcels of land near that site that could be purchased for "secondary projects" It just makes the best sense to put the project there and less real estate hurdles to jump through. There are certainly plenty of investors, national and international involved with this project to purchase multiple parcels for multiple projects in the development.

[RALNATIVE]

There are certainly plenty of investors, national and international involved with this project to purchase multiple parcels for multiple projects in the development.

How do you know this??

[cityboi]

How do you know this??

Ray Gibbs, former president of Downtown Greensboro Inc, said so....remember, he is the point contact person with the developer so this isnt speculation, fantasy or hearsay. As Ive said in previous posts, the fact that international developers are involved with this demonstrates the nature of this project. Its not a small time project, this is a big league deal. I know this because the developers were pondering whether or not this project could work in Greensboro. Also hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent on feasibilty studies. When that kind of dough is spent on feasibility studies, trust me its a huge deal.

[RALBOI]

Speculation is one thing, and I don't think that most people have a problem with pure speculation. But alot of what I have been reading in some of these posts is actually the skewing of facts, whether intentional or unintentional, and that is not cool.

How do you know the facts are being skewed,when the powers that be have not released anything about the project yet. So the truth is until that happens everything is pure speculation. People up hear are just invoking their rights and freedom to talk about a super project that MIGHT come to the Greensboro area.They also know that things get twisted around abit WITH ANY PROJECT that's discussed on this site or any other site. people up here are smart enough to know that this project may not happen, they have seen this happen before just as well as other cities have seen it happen before. You keep talking about speculation well that comes with the territiory on blogs man, and it's not going to change anytime soon.What's not cool is when people stop giving their opinions up here on UP. It's not against the law to speculate.

[cityboi]

I agree Ralboi...also just because something is not a done deal, that doesnt mean we shouldnt get excited about it. like ANY project, if it doesnt happen of course there will be dissapointment. But we are all keeping our fingers crossed with this and it does look promising but thats all we can say until we hear more details.

[RALBOI]

That is the reason I made the comment about keeping one's pie hole shut so early in the game. We ALL know that these forums are read by all kinds of people, including developers and mayors. All that one has to do is GOOGLE the name of a city, and blogs like UP and SSC always come up. When people do research on a city, for reasons such as relocation, site selection, etc., they DO read blogs like this to get insight into a city. That is reason enough to keep facts FACTS, and keep speculation SPECULATION. This does not take a genius to understand.

You make good point's, if this was a courtroom, but it's not, I agree with you to a certain degree, but their are NO FACT'S yet because the project hasn't been released so everything is speculation in my book at this point, these developers are not going kill a project, or in Greensboro's case a potential project if they win the bid, because of what they read on this blog, they understand that they hold the keys to what the FACT'S and SPECULATION are. A high school drop out would even understand that so your right it doesn't take a genius.

[RALBOI]

I agree Ralboi...also just because something is not a done deal, that doesnt mean we shouldnt get excited about it. like ANY project, if it doesnt happen of course there will be dissapointment. But we are all keeping our fingers crossed with this and it does look promising but thats all we can say until we hear more details.

GOOD POINT, just because I have choosen to remain silent doesn't mean people have to CLOSE THEIR PIE HOLE'S as ONE would call it up here with there own speculations and thoughs it's a free country last I checked so if you want to get excited or let your imagination run wild and yes even SPECULATE go right ahead don't let anyone tell you what you can or can't say. The only one's that can do that on this website are the people that run and own urban planet.org because that's their right. SO POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!

[cityboi]

I think there is a difference in what we say versus what Ralboi says. What we say is speculation whether its true or not. Ralboi would be leaking actual confirmed and sensative info on this project.

But all evidence points to this being a very BIG project that could change the face of the city. We know that the developers are looking at a 2 hour drive radius around Greensboro which reveals there are some pretty big attractions in this. It would have to be to have a 600 room LUXURY hotel in downtown Greensboro. Even having a convention center in the project does not make it feasible for a LUXURY hotel, especially that big in the center-city. Also the fact that international developers are involved and feasibility studies are in the hundreds of thousands of dollars to see if the city could sustain such a project are pretty big clues. Then there are the more direct clues such as when Ray Gibbs says "when plans are revealed, that's when people's jaws will drop". We also know for fact that the developers want this project to be a "Destination for the Southeast Region". We were also told that part of this development would be a "tourist destination" Some people on this forum, for some reason or another want to ignore all that and continue to believe this is a much smaller project with more of a local appeal, basically a few local based night clubs, apartments and a hotel. But hey, everyone has a right to their opinion whether they are right or wrong.

There are several reasons why some want to ignore the clues. I wont get into some of them but one is that some people have a hard to believing that a big time development company would consider such a project to be built in Greensboro. You would expect something like that to be built in a city such as Atlanta or a vacation area such as Myrtle Beach. basically its like what some Greensboro city leaders have said "If this is such a great project, why Greensboro?"

[RALNATIVE]

You make good point's, if this was a courtroom, but it's not, I agree with you to certain degree, but their are NO FACT'S yet because the project hasn't been released so everything is speculation in my book at this point, these developers are not going kill a project, or in Greensboro's case a potential project if they win the bid, because of what they read on this blog, they understand that they hold the keys to what the FACT'S and SPECULATION are. A high school drop would even understand that so your right it doesn't take a genius.

Ralboi, Citiboi, and others with similar names, thoughts and attitudes:

If you re-read some of the previous posts, alot of what has been said about this proposed project has clearly been presented as though it were a fact or would indeed be an end result of this project, eventhough most of us realize that nothing concrete has been determined, or at the very least confirmed to the general public. I keep reading statements about things that have been said by Ray gibbs, but if you recall, he was the same person that said that land deals could be expected within about a week to a week and a half, but that should have been early June and so far we have heard nothing. Furthermore, he and others, went out on this early media blitz, and now they are totally silent. These situations do not bode well for the credit of 1) the persons who said it, 2) the persons relaying that information, and 3) the city of Greensboro. There comes a time when a person's credibility comes into question when things are stated that don't happen.

In general, I think that most people have no problem with unrealistic speculation, but when this turns to hype about something that is still a largely unknown concept, and most of us definitely think that this is over hyped, people get turned off. I sincerely hope that you get the difference here.

Pardon me, not to be obtuse, but I've lived in NC on and off for the last 20 yrs. When has the Triad EVER been th leading metro in the state? To me (and in the minds of most I know), it's always been 3rd in line behind charlotte and the triangle in terms of development, population, rate of growth, etc.

THANK YOU!

[cityboi]

Ray Gibbs turned around and said the resaon the offers didnt go out in 10 days was because it was the normal hoops and hurdles that are associated with real esatate deals. In fact it has been said that things are getting more quiet because the developers are getting closer to a land deal. Im not questioning Ray Gibb's credibilty because he IS the point person directly communicating with the develoeprs. Regardless of the fact that things are conceptual......we know what the developers want to do here in terms of scope. As far as being over hyped, Ralboi made himself very clear. he knows what this is, you dont. so Ralboi has a clearer perspective of what this is about. But you continue to ignore the know FACTS of this potential project.

Im sorry if an exciting concept for Greensboro turns you off. When will this inter-city envy end? Im always happy for other cities in NC when big things come there. I sure hope this happens for Greensboro, because if it does, some people who have talked negative about this project will feel really small.

[JerseyBoy]

I have a few things to say about this project:

1) Some of us on here are posting "facts" about this project that are not true that they read from the paper and either misinterpreted it or spun it way out of proportion in their favor. I have caught this several times when a poster posts something and then I go and read the article and it says something completely different. (This goes for everyone) Try posting the newspaper or other media source where you got your information when you make a post that relates to something you read.

2) I'm going to agree with Greensboro's city council, what makes Greensboro so special? Just the fact that international developers are joining doesn't mean it's a full blown mega project, it could be that the developer can't financially support the project and is looking at other developers to partner with to offset the cost. Also, why Greensboro? I'll give Greensboro some credit with FedEx, HondaJet, RFMicro, and attracting ACC and NCAA tournaments, but if I was a developer I would wait to see how successful those major companies that are setting up shop in G'boro are. I know that they will be big and the developers might be getting in before "the boom" (if that happens), but if you were making this a Southeast destination, why would you choose Greensboro? I've spoken to quite a few people from Atlanta, Nashville, and Richmond that have merely heard of G'boro and the ones that have didn't think it had a downtown considering the lack of decent planning around the interstates and the fact that's all you see when you drive through that's all you see.

3) Now this is just my opinion but I believe this is just a huge hype wagon created by the local media. This may be a decent sized project with a couple of national known venues, that Ray Gibbs (or whoever is in charge over there) saw and was excited and reported to the media that it was BIG and AWESOME, same goes for the mayor. When in reality it's a nice project but just not as big considering what's going up in other cities.

[cityboi]

The thing is, it wasnt the media that said this development would be a "Southeast Destination", its what the developers have in mind according to Ray Gibbs. Thats pretty clear and not over hyped

[RALNATIVE]

Ray Gibbs turned around and said the resaon the offers didnt go out in 10 days was because it was the normal hoops and hurdles that are associated with real esatate deals. In fact it has been said that things are getting more quiet because the developers are getting closer to a land deal. Im not questioning Ray Gibb's credibilty because he IS the point person directly communicating with the develoeprs. Regardless of the fact that things are conceptual......we know what the developers want to do here in terms of scope. As far as being over hyped, Ralboi made himself very clear. he knows what this is, you dont. so Ralboi has a clearer perspective of what this is about. But you continue to ignore the know FACTS of this potential project.

Im sorry if an exciting concept for Greensboro turns you off. When will this inter-city envy end? Im always happy for other cities in NC when big things come there. I sure hope this happens for Greensboro, because if it does, some people who have talked negative about this project will feel really small.

inter-city envy? some people who have talked negative about this project will feel really small?

you seriously, seriously, seriously need a reality check, or better yet a shrink!

[cityboi]

inter-city envy? some people who have talked negative about this project will feel really small?

you seriously, seriously, seriously need a reality check, or better yet a shrink!

ok be nice

[RALBOI]

Ray Gibbs turned around and said the resaon the offers didnt go out in 10 days was because it was the normal hoops and hurdles that are associated with real esatate deals. In fact it has been said that things are getting more quiet because the developers are getting closer to a land deal. Im not questioning Ray Gibb's credibilty because he IS the point person directly communicating with the develoeprs. Regardless of the fact that things are conceptual......we know what the developers want to do here in terms of scope. As far as being over hyped, Ralboi made himself very clear. he knows what this is, you dont. so Ralboi has a clearer perspective of what this is about. But you continue to ignore the know FACTS of this potential project.

Im sorry if an exciting concept for Greensboro turns you off. When will this inter-city envy end? Im always happy for other cities in NC when big things come there. I sure hope this happens for Greensboro, because if it does, some people who have talked negative about this project will feel really small.

Citiboi please stop using my name in your statements, am not saying this in a ugly way my friend but it's really confusing things,but If folks think it's over hyped then that's their opinion. OK for the record of those concerned I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS PROJECT,NOTHING HAS BEEN SET IN STONE, so the truth is some of this could be HYPE. I will defend people's right to speculate or give there opinions,but am not speculating on this project "MYSELF" because Ralnative was on the money with one of the things he said. I don't want people thinking I mislead them if things don't turn out the way they liked, so SPECULATE at your own RISK it's your right. But please keep RALBOI'S name out of your WIND PIPE'S PLEASE.

[cityboi]

I have a few things to say about this project:

1) Some of us on here are posting "facts" about this project that are not true that they read from the paper and either misinterpreted it or spun it way out of proportion in their favor. I have caught this several times when a poster posts something and then I go and read the article and it says something completely different. (This goes for everyone) Try posting the newspaper or other media source where you got your information when you make a post that relates to something you read.

2) I'm going to agree with Greensboro's city council, what makes Greensboro so special? Just the fact that international developers are joining doesn't mean it's a full blown mega project, it could be that the developer can't financially support the project and is looking at other developers to partner with to offset the cost. Also, why Greensboro? I'll give Greensboro some credit with FedEx, HondaJet, RFMicro, and attracting ACC and NCAA tournaments, but if I was a developer I would wait to see how successful those major companies that are setting up shop in G'boro are. I know that they will be big and the developers might be getting in before "the boom" (if that happens), but if you were making this a Southeast destination, why would you choose Greensboro? I've spoken to quite a few people from Atlanta, Nashville, and Richmond that have merely heard of G'boro and the ones that have didn't think it had a downtown considering the lack of decent planning around the interstates and the fact that's all you see when you drive through that's all you see.

3) Now this is just my opinion but I believe this is just a huge hype wagon created by the local media. This may be a decent sized project with a couple of national known venues, that Ray Gibbs (or whoever is in charge over there) saw and was excited and reported to the media that it was BIG and AWESOME, same goes for the mayor. When in reality it's a nice project but just not as big considering what's going up in other cities.

I disagree....the "lack of planning" you refer to is sprawl which is a part of every southern city including Atlanta and Nashville. I do have a question for you...what do you think is "over hyped"? because everything the media has said about this project comes from Ray Gibbs. I've met Ray Gibbs before and he is not the kind of person that would exagerate things and certainly not an important project like this. Hes a very professional guy thats been handling projects in downtown Greensboro for almost 10 years. The same thing with the mayor. He said it was "Breathtaking" some would say comments like that is overhyped. These are very professional guys that are optimistic but think realistically.

In comparison with other complexes, EpiCenter was not touted as being Southeast destination by the developers. Before you cast your judgement on this, you need to at least wait and see what this project is. It may not be what you or I think it is. It may be a totally different concept from most other major entertainment complexes. This project may even have some big things in it that the media and us dont know about yet just like we didnt know about the convention center until about two months after the project was first announced. And to be honest with you, it really depends on which size plan they select, which would determine how much of an impact it will have on the city. It seems is though they are going for the largest plan because its been reported this thing could top $200 million now when before the limit was $150 million. The smallest plan would be around $50 million.

[coastalmindset]

This project will no doubt bring something good to the city of Greensboro, should we land the project; but how many bars, restaurants, and hotels can the city really support? The city "leaders" need to work harder at bringing good paying, long lasting jobs to the city. While the downtown is filled with great restaurants and bars it is missing the jobs that keep recent college graduates in Greensboro. Instead those graduates are still leaving as fast as possible for bigger, better cities with higher paying jobs. As a city we can hardly support the many retail and entertainments projects that exist already (just look at the retail shops that have already closed in downtown) Hopefully this Project X deal will either bring Fortune 500's with it or make them take a second look at Greensboro because that's what this city needs in order to continue to grow. Greensboro's future needs to be in the jobs that allow people to enjoy all this entertainment.

[cityboi]

This project will no doubt bring something good to the city of Greensboro, should we land the project; but how many bars, restaurants, and hotels can the city really support? The city "leaders" need to work harder at bringing good paying, long lasting jobs to the city. While the downtown is filled with great restaurants and bars it is missing the jobs that keep recent college graduates in Greensboro. Instead those graduates are still leaving as fast as possible for bigger, better cities with higher paying jobs. As a city we can hardly support the many retail and entertainments projects that exist already (just look at the retail shops that have already closed in downtown) Hopefully this Project X deal will either bring Fortune 500's with it or make them take a second look at Greensboro because that's what this city needs in order to continue to grow. Greensboro's future needs to be in the jobs that allow people to enjoy all this entertainment.

I agree, and the jobs are coming. FedEx is around the corner, HondaJet is opening its world headqaurters and manufacturing plant in Greensboro. Procter & Gamble is expanding its Greensboro operations adding more jobs...btw 90% of all Crest toothpaste is made in Greensboro. More recent news is the PC maker Lenova is opening up a light manufacturing facility/distribution hub near Greensboro. Also Zinc imaging is buy the former Konica Minolta manufacturing plant near Greensboro and open up operations to manufactur small printers and small cameras with built in printers. So the good news is the economy is on the upswing for the Greensboro area and this secret project would only be even more good news. You bring up a good point though. Maybe this project includes a major corporate headqaurters considering Gibbs said more office space is envisioned than previously planned but folks thats just my speculation so dont take that seriously LOL

BTW welcome to Urban Planet

[roningreensboro]

I agree, and the jobs are coming. FedEx is around the corner, HondaJet is opening its world headqaurters and manufacturing plant in Greensboro. Procter & Gamble is expanding its Greensboro operations adding more jobs...btw 90% of all Crest toothpaste is made in Greensboro. More recent news is the PC maker Lenova is opening up a light manufacturing facility/distribution hub near Greensboro. Also Zinc imaging is buy the former Konica Minolta manufacturing plant near Greensboro and open up operations to manufactur small printers and small cameras with built in printers. So the good news is the economy is on the upswing for the Greensboro area and this secret project would only be even more good news. You bring up a good point though. Maybe this project includes a major corporate headqaurters considering Gibbs said more office space is envisioned than previously planned but folks thats just my speculation so dont take that seriously LOL

BTW welcome to Urban Planet

Cityboi. How many of these projects are being built downtown? NONE. HondaJet is going to be by the airport, FedEx - South Elm/Eugene, Procter & Gamble - who knows, etc. This project is great but when I hear about new headquarter projects coming to GSO and none of them is being put downtown, I almost want to say 'what's the point.' I hope this project goes through but the currents projects should be downtown not by GSO surburbia.

[coastalmindset]

I agree, and the jobs are coming. FedEx is around the corner, HondaJet is opening its world headqaurters and manufacturing plant in Greensboro. Procter & Gamble is expanding its Greensboro operations adding more jobs...btw 90% of all Crest toothpaste is made in Greensboro. More recent news is the PC maker Lenova is opening up a light manufacturing facility/distribution hub near Greensboro. Also Zinc imaging is buy the former Konica Minolta manufacturing plant near Greensboro and open up operations to manufactur small printers and small cameras with built in printers. So the good news is the economy is on the upswing for the Greensboro area and this secret project would only be even more good news.

BTW welcome to Urban Planet

Thanks for the welcome.

I did not know P&G was looking to expand its facility and that is good to hear, good thing I've been buying Crest lately, and Honda Jet will be a great addition. I just hope we can keep our business community growing and it's tough since we have so much invested in the manufacturing of goods and so many of the new jobs or saved jobs ( thanks to Zinc Imaging for stepping up on that deal) are skilled labor jobs. Seeing companies like VF Corp scale back some of their operations and Dell starting to cut production because of lack of orders makes you wonder a bit. Maybe like a good investment portfolio we need to be better diversified.

Anyway all the speculation is interesting to read and hopefully whatever this project is that is looming out there will make Greensboro even more unique and at least make us a better, bigger destination.

[cityboi]

Cityboi. How many of these projects are being built downtown? NONE. HondaJet is going to be by the airport, FedEx - South Elm/Eugene, Procter & Gamble - who knows, etc. This project is great but when I hear about new headquarter projects coming to GSO and none of them is being put downtown, I almost want to say 'what's the point.' I hope this project goes through but the currents projects should be downtown not by GSO surburbia.

Im with ya. I only hope more companies relocate downtown. the office space in the potential project looks promising but we cant be for sure. Carolina Bank is moving its corporate headqaurters downtown, as ugly as the building may be.

Thanks for the welcome.

Anyway all the speculation is interesting to read and hopefully whatever this project is that is looming out there will make Greensboro even more unique and at least make us a better, bigger destination.

Im hoping this project will help give Greensboro more of an identity. Charlotte has one and Raleigh has one. When a city has an identity, it stands out and becomes more well known. Despite all the great things going on in Greensboro and downtown the city still lacks having an identity and think thats where the real problem is. What is Greensboro best known for, other than the ACC?

[crowe1856]

What is Greensboro best known for, other than the ACC?

How 'bout "The Silly Putty Experience"? Put it on that plot of land just south of the News & Record. Seems like a perfect tie-in; make Silly Putty copies of the funny pages hot off the press. Do a room with ball bouncing, one for sculpting, and another for fake noses & appendages. Get free admission with your children's museum ticket stub. You could even go vertical with it: a 10 story (and extremely slow moving) Silly Putty "waterfall"...or a Putty volcano that oozes Silly Putty lava... go full-on Wonka with it!

[RALNATIVE]

Charlotte has one and Raleigh has one.

What is it with this obsession over what Charlotte and Raleigh has? Those two cities are different from each other, and have achieved success in different ways. Similarly, they are different from Greensboro. I'm getting very perplexed by the posts that I read in this thread, and i'm sure that other outsiders are as well, if they even care. On one hand, I read statements by locals that boast of the Triad being the "premier" metro in NC's past and that one day you're going to be on top again, but then, you're constantly making statements about Charlotte and Raleigh's success and what those cities have that Greensboro doesn't and how Greensboro has a blue collar image.

Maybe having and showing a clear and consistent message to the world is a good place to start.

[cityboi]

What is it with this obsession over what Charlotte and Raleigh has? Those two cities are different from each other, and have achieved success in different ways. Similarly, they are different from Greensboro. I'm getting very perplexed by the posts that I read in this thread, and i'm sure that other outsiders are as well, if they even care. On one hand, I read statements by locals that boast of the Triad being the "premier" metro in NC's past and that one day you're going to be on top again, but then, you're constantly making statements about Charlotte and Raleigh's success and what those cities have that Greensboro doesn't and how Greensboro has a blue collar image.

Maybe having and showing a clear and consistent message to the world is a good place to start.

I dont think nobody said they want Greensboro to be like Charlotte or Raleigh. What I said was that Greensboro needed its OWN identity like those cities have.

[JerseyBoy]

I disagree....the "lack of planning" you refer to is sprawl which is a part of every southern city including Atlanta and Nashville. I do have a question for you...what do you think is "over hyped"? because everything the media has said about this project comes from Ray Gibbs. I've met Ray Gibbs before and he is not the kind of person that would exagerate things and certainly not an important project like this. Hes a very professional guy thats been handling projects in downtown Greensboro for almost 10 years. The same thing with the mayor. He said it was "Breathtaking" some would say comments like that is overhyped. These are very professional guys that are optimistic but think realistically.

In comparison with other complexes, EpiCenter was not touted as being Southeast destination by the developers. Before you cast your judgement on this, you need to at least wait and see what this project is. It may not be what you or I think it is. It may be a totally different concept from most other major entertainment complexes. This project may even have some big things in it that the media and us dont know about yet just like we didnt know about the convention center until about two months after the project was first announced. And to be honest with you, it really depends on which size plan they select, which would determine how much of an impact it will have on the city. It seems is though they are going for the largest plan because its been reported this thing could top $200 million now when before the limit was $150 million. The smallest plan would be around $50 million.

Yes but Greensboro adopted a plan in the late 60's/early 70's to grow at all means possible. That is why you have the struggling High Point Road corridor along with other failed retail streets. I know other southern cities have the same issue but from an outsider's perspective it looks like Greensboro has a bigger problem with it.

Do you want to know what I think "over hyped" is? Well to start off 1) calling this the biggest project in the Southeast, 2)l largest project ever in NC, 3) take Greensboro back to its glory days and become the ultimate city in the state, 4) speculating about possible tenants but then reporting it as fact, 5) because of this development downtown will get things 10-20 years sooner, 6) major retail, 7) super luxury hotel, 8) bigger than Peabody Place and EpiCenter, 9) everyone's jaws will drop, 10) L.A. of the East Coast, etc. That's what I think over hyped is.

I agree with you, I should wait and see what the final project is but as for this unrealistic speculation, it's fun but it gets kind of boring and irritating sometimes.