The Greensboro Triumph Center

[cityboi]

The perfect statement and the reason why I stopped talking about this project, yes their is more than one plan, but not a one has been presented to the city of Greensboro, because Greensboro has not been CONFIRMED, but is a frontrunner for the project but like I said things change fast and it's not in the BAG meaning other cities could still easily walk away with this project if it is even built, Citiboi you know I support Greensboro's bid and I think it will HAPPEN! but you are putting the cart before the horse just alittle bit my friend .Just sit back and see what happens and maybe FOLKS JAWS WILL DROP!

ok man Even though its not a done deal, people now see how BIG this can be. The main obsticles have to deal with assembling land at a decent price and city financial support and doing so very quickly. I think it will happen if we can get past those two obsticles. We should hear ALL the details about this within the next two to six weeks.

[cityboi]

had a little fun in photo shop. Here is what a cluster of highrise/midrises would look like on one of the sites being considered (former Duke Power site, Lincoln Financial and city property. (viewed from Center Pointe)

Something a little more sprawled out if the parking lot next to Governors Court is purchased as well

[ava210]

Welcome BlueJ I agree. The media did say it would top $200 million meaning it would be more than $200 million. Usually developments always end up costing more in the end anyway. But obviously the developers are shooting for the LARGEST plan of this project. The entertainment venues envisioned for Greensboro's complex are more "significant" than whats planned for the Raleigh Complex....In other words, Raleigh's complex probabally wont have venues like the House of Blues and would be similar to Charlotte's EpiCentre without the hotel. Greensboro's complex would be in another whole league and is intended to attract visitors more than 2 hours from Greensboro by car. This is a mixed-use tourist attraction that combines convention, office, residential, and shopping, not just a local entertainment project. As a source said, Greensboro's complex can be larger in scope than the epicenter. The goal of the developers is to make Greensboro's complex a "Southeast destination" not just a local/regional destination.

btw...you sound like you know some things. I think former downtown club owner Joey Medoloni knows something because he made the comment that he believes in 10 years Greensboro can become the Los Angeles of the east coast and he wasnt joking when he said that. MTV and Extra have already sent camera crews to downtown Greensboro to do stories on the city's downtown nightlife.

a fellow forumer here who knows exactly what this project is says this project can be so big (in impact) that he could see Greensboro and the Triad returning back to being the leading metro in the state and he said Greensboro is a sleeping giant.....I know its hard to imagine but I think we could be VERY shocked once EVERYTHING is revealed about this project. Ray Gibbs of Downtown Greensboro, Inc said once plans are revealed, everyones jaws are going to drop. The mayor, who also knows, said this project is "off the charts".

Hi Cityboi:

I have read almost every article regarding this project so far, and have read many of your posts. This project sounds awesome! I thought that Medaloni's comment on Greensboro being like another LA was ridiculous...maybe more like a San Diego, but miracles happen. Why stop at being a "Southeast destination" and go for the goal of becoming a major national destination like an L.A., Miami, Phoenix, etc? I think that we have the creative people, visionaries, and great developers to accomplish that.

[cityboi]

Hi Cityboi:

I have read almost every article regarding this project so far, and have read many of your posts. This project sounds awesome! I thought that Medaloni's comment on Greensboro being like another LA was ridiculous...maybe more like a San Diego, but miracles happen. Why stop at being a "Southeast destination" and go for the goal of becoming a major national destination like an L.A., Miami, Phoenix, etc? I think that we have the creative people, visionaries, and great developers to accomplish that.

That can happen ONLY if Greensboro changes its mindset and believe it can do ANYTHING. It really does take that kind of attitude to make mircles happen. Joey's comments were far fetched now but whos to say what Greensboro will be like in 20 or 30 years. After all Charlotte made a very quick transformation in 20 to 30 years. I remember when people had doubts about Charlotte's potential back in the 80s.

As far as this project goes, like RALBOI said, this is not in the bag for Greensboro so we should watch with caution but I believe it WILL happen. its all about the mindset. People think they know what Greensboro can and cant support. I think the possibilties in Greensboro can surprise alot of people.

[RALNATIVE]

Hi Cityboi:

I have read almost every article regarding this project so far, and have read many of your posts. This project sounds awesome! I thought that Medaloni's comment on Greensboro being like another LA was ridiculous...maybe more like a San Diego, but miracles happen. Why stop at being a "Southeast destination" and go for the goal of becoming a major national destination like an L.A., Miami, Phoenix, etc? I think that we have the creative people, visionaries, and great developers to accomplish that.

Let me break this down so that you guys understand the importance of not creating buzz and hype before a proposal for a project has been revealed...

Creating buzz and hype about projects create expectations that may/may not be realistic and may not be what the developers have in mind or can potentially deliver. The downside of this is that if this situation is created, where people's expectations are greater than what the developer eventually does deliver, it will create a situation where everyone (who has listened to the buzz and believed the hype) will express dissatisfaction with the developer because they did not deliver what was expected, even though the developers did not create the unrealistic expectations in the first place. This could be extremely negative for a developer and could be potentially devastating for their business.

Having said all of this, no developer is going to put themselves in a position where they are going to build something that could not possibly live up to the expectations that have been falsely created. They would more likely not build anything, to prevent from being put into that situation.

It is common knowledge within city planning departments throughout this country that preliminary plans of this nature must be kept under wraps, for the reasons that I mentioned above. By creating so much buzz and posting images (i.e. the comparison to Houston's development), the mysterious developer may shy away from Greensboro and could possibly develop elsewhere, simply because they don't want to be put in the situation where they can't possibly deliver what is expected.

You guys could be doing more harm than good to this project simply by discussing it at this stage in the game. Don't be surprised if the developers walk away from the table, and it could simply be because they got wind of all of the hype surrounding this project in Greensboro.

[cityboi]

Let me break this down so that you guys understand the importance of not creating buzz and hype before a proposal for a project has been revealed...

Creating buzz and hype about projects create expectations that may/may not be realistic and may not be what the developers have in mind or can potentially deliver. The downside of this is that if this situation is created, where people's expectations are greater than what the developer eventually does deliver, it will create a situation where everyone (who has listened to the buzz and believed the hype) will express dissatisfaction with the developer because they did not deliver what was expected, even though the developers did not create the unrealistic expectations in the first place. This could be extremely negative for a developer and could be potentially devastating for their business.

Having said all of this, no developer is going to put themselves in a position where they are going to build something that could not possibly live up to the expectations that have been falsely created. They would more likely not build anything, to prevent from being put into that situation.

It is common knowledge within city planning departments throughout this country that preliminary plans of this nature must be kept under wraps, for the reasons that I mentioned above. By creating so much buzz and posting images (i.e. the comparison to Houston's development), the mysterious developer may shy away from Greensboro and could possibly develop elsewhere, simply because they don't want to be put in the situation where they can't possibly deliver what is expected.

You guys could be doing more harm than good to this project simply by discussing it at this stage in the game. Don't be surprised if the developers walk away from the table, and it could simply be because they got wind of all of the hype surrounding this project in Greensboro.

The question is how much of it is hype if its hype at all? We dont know what this project is......only that its pretty big for Greensboro so we cant say its hype if we dont know what it is. personally I dont think anyone will be dissapointed if this project happens. Ray Gibbs knows what to say and what not to say.....he is very careful in his wording but what he has said indicates this is really a big potential project beyond what Greensboro is use to. I dont think the developers would walk away over discussed hype because I believe this project is as big as Ray Gibbs and others have said. most many people in Greensboro may not even be aware of this developemnt because maybe they dont read the news paper. The only things that would keep it from happening in Greensboro is if the developers cant secure a land deal in a timely matter or if city leaders drag their asses in regards to supporting this project. Thats it...thats what would keep it from happening here.

keep in mind...this development is bigger than just Greensboro. Its designed to attract people from far away...that we know and is not hype. Even if the scaled down version is built its still big for Greensboro. Its just a matter of the developers securing the land and getting city support. I cant stress enough that RALBOI is correct...its NOT a done deal for Greensboro. But if it doesnt happen, it wont be because people were talking about what it could be.

[krazeeboi]

The question is how much of it is hype if its hype at all? We dont know what this project is......only that its pretty big for Greensboro so we cant say its hype if we dont know what it is.

Speculation without details, which is what's been going on here for the most part, is pretty much hype.

[cityboi]

Well hopefully we'll hear something soon so we can end all the speculation. Sometime within the next month and a half we should hear what the plans are...that is if the developers decide to move forward. It would be nice though if Ray Gibbs called a press conference this week with the developers to announce the plans

[krazeeboi]

I'm pretty sure we'll hear something about this soon. I just hope that Greensboro gets the best possible deal with this development.

[blueJ]

QUICK ... SOMEBODY CALL MISS CLEO !!! MABY SHE CAN GIVE US SOME INSIDE SCOOP !!!

Seriously - the last News & Record article (6/3/07) was entitled " Numbers increase for project downtown ". I've neither read nor heard anything that suggests that this project is faltereing. For all we know ... it may be getting even bigger. Gibbs did say that "there's been some interest from some additional developers". We all know that land aquisitions can be complicated and time consuming. I also seriously doubt that the statements and comments made by us "armchair developers" is going to factor into the decision making process. What BlueJ (me) has to say means nothing to these guys. Our expectations are now so great that unless this project far exceeds the $200 million figure stated, we may all be a bit dissappointed ! It's going to take something or someone really big to make this a regional - "Southeast Regional" destination. I too am anxiously awaiting an announcement. Nevertheless - $200 million is a mighty fine investment for ANYONE to make in ANY city ...

[cityboi]

QUICK ... SOMEBODY CALL MISS CLEO !!! MABY SHE CAN GIVE US SOME INSIDE SCOOP !!!

Seriously - the last News & Record article (6/3/07) was entitled " Numbers increase for project downtown ". I've neither read nor heard anything that suggests that this project is faltereing. For all we know ... it may be getting even bigger. Gibbs did say that "there's been some interest from some additional developers". We all know that land aquisitions can be complicated and time consuming. I also seriously doubt that the statements and comments made by us "armchair developers" is going to factor into the decision making process. What BlueJ (me) has to say means nothing to these guys. Our expectations are now so great that unless this project far exceeds the $200 million figure stated, we may all be a bit dissappointed ! It's going to take something or someone really big to make this a regional - "Southeast Regional" destination. I too am anxiously awaiting an announcement. Nevertheless - $200 million is a mighty fine investment for ANYONE to make in ANY city ...

I agree...just because things are quiet now doesnt mean the plan is falling apart. Im sure they are working on the land deals now. remember the developers are looking at purchasing multiple parcels and it can get complex dealing with land with several owners. I do know that even at $150 million this thing was suppose to be massive and have a HUGE effect on the area so you can only imagine what the project is like now that it could top $200 million. It seems to be getting bigger and it seems as though they are going for the largest possible plan out of the three different size plans, the smallest plan being around $50 million. I also believe that if this is to be a "southeast regional" destination as Ray Gibbs says it would have to some pretty big time attractions. I know people laugh when you throw out names like House of Blues, Hard Rock Cafe, Planet Hollywood, ESPN Zone, BET Sound Stage, Cheesecake Factory, Rock Bottom or Medieval Times but you have to figures tenants like that have to sign up with this development to make it such a southern regional draw. Smaller local establishments like Natty Greene's and the N Club just isnt going to do it. Dont get me wrong, those are great establishments for Greensboro and the Triad but those local based venues arent going to attract people from Fayetteville or Greenville, SC. You have to have venues with national appeal to do that. More of the same just isnt enough. I also believe that it not just venues like that. I think its more which hasnt been revealed yet. Remember Ray Gibbs decribed this project as being somewhat like a themepark without roller coasters and waterslides and that there would be attractions for families and children. Another revealing clue to how big in nature this project can be is the fact that numerous international investors are involved along with the Orlando, Florida Development Company who is primarily behind this. That alone should raise alot of red flags in most peoples minds. Not to mention the "scouting of sites" for this project throughout Florida, Geogria, South Carolina, North Carolina and Virginia. Thats another big clue. As unbelievable as all this sounds, alot of it is just plain common sense when you factor in all the known facts and mysterious circumstances surrounding this project.

I was born and raised in Greensboro so I know what Greensboro is capable of supporting and I know what downtown is capable of supporting which I why I believe it has to be a pretty big attraction to even think about putting a luxury hotel downtown with 300 to 600 rooms. I know Greensboro and downtown well enough to know that such a hotel on its own wouldnt survive in downtown. so the hotel gives us big clues here that this development is big enough and has a big enough tourist draw to make it feasible for a hotel of that nature and size in the central business district. The Marriott downtown has over 300 rooms so if this hotel is built at 600 rooms it would be twice the size of the 11-story Marriott and the Marriott has been losing money for years. Acording to one source this development could even help fill the rooms up at the Marriott. Oh yea I almost forgot about a second luxury hotel thats a part of this. But we could be dealing with a potential project here that is big enough to really put Greensboro on the map.

[cityboi]

Lets pretend that this development was Disney related. Here is an interesting article that describes Disney's plans for "Location Based Entertainment Centers" across the country and also describes these centers being near convention centers. Sounds very similar to the project planned for Greensboro which has been described by Ray Gibbs as a southeast destination, sort of a theme park and that the project would include some sort of convention venue. We also know the main development firm behind this is based in Orlando, Florida. I also find it interesting what Ray Gibbs said. He said the developer is looking for a town that wants "them" He didnt say the developer said they were looking for a town that wants their project. But this is all pure speculation. I think the article goes a little far with all the rides but the idea is pretty much the same.

"There’s another side to adding an E-Ticket attraction: you might actually lure people to your LBE property who aren’t even staying there. Let’s go back mentally to Chicago or New York, and envision the LBE hotel somewhere near the convention center. You’ve already got whole families staying there, in many cases the families of people who had to go to New York for the convention anyway, and decided to bring along the whole brood because of this new Disney hotel offering. Those folks are the easy marks to come spend the day at your entertainment offerings.

But that convention mentioned above would also draw conventioneers who are staying at other hotels, and this crowd might also come to the LBE hotel/park for a few hours just to ride the E-Ticket."

http://www.miceage.com/kevinyee/ky061907a.htm

[cityboi]

mayor of Greensboro describes this development as "Truely Breathtaking" and he also confirms a downtown convention center is in the proposal. The News & Record did a little investigation and found the letter in public records. It also seems that this project may indeed go forward.

mayor Holliday writes to the developers:

"I can not even imagine, at this point, what such a development would mean for the future of downtown," Holliday wrote.

"I commend you and your business partners on your aggressive vision and thank you for your interest in bringing this exciting concept to Greensboro"

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...EC0101/70625027

[roningreensboro]

mayor of Greensboro describes this development as "Truely Breathtaking" and he also confirms a downtown convention center is in the proposal. The News & Record did a little investigation and found the letter in public records. It also seems that this project may indeed go forward.

mayor Holliday writes to the developers:

"I can not even imagine, at this point, what such a development would mean for the future of downtown," Holliday wrote.

"I commend you and your business partners on your aggressive vision and thank you for your interest in bringing this exciting concept to Greensboro"

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...EC0101/70625027

From reading this, it looks like Greensboro has won the deal. If so this is GREAT news! I hope the public announcement happens soon and renderings. Also the article mentioned that there could be 3 to seven buildings. WOW!! I hope it is seven and 4 out of the 7 are towers 25 to 30 or 40 story towers. This will make the skyline of GSO very impressive and hopefully put us on the map for future development interest.

[cityboi]

mayor of Greensboro describes this development as "Truely Breathtaking" and he also confirms a downtown convention center is in the proposal. The News & Record did a little investigation and found the letter in public records. It also seems that this project may indeed go forward.

mayor Holliday writes to the developers:

"I can not even imagine, at this point, what such a development would mean for the future of downtown," Holliday wrote.

"I commend you and your business partners on your aggressive vision and thank you for your interest in bringing this exciting concept to Greensboro"

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...EC0101/70625027

There is also talk of "stores" I wonder what kind? I did hear of a rumor that a supermarket could be in this but I wonder if we will see some national chain retail stores in this project.

[roningreensboro]

There is also talk of "stores" I wonder what kind? I did hear of a rumor that a supermarket could be in this but I wonder if we will see some national chain retail stores in this project.

I heard rumor of a harris teeter coming to downtown from one of my friends. I feel though, that downtown cannot support a supermarket yet. Maybe once this project is built, "maybe" then yes.

[cityboi]

mayor of Greensboro describes this development as "Truely Breathtaking" and he also confirms a downtown convention center is in the proposal. The News & Record did a little investigation and found the letter in public records. It also seems that this project may indeed go forward.

mayor Holliday writes to the developers:

"I can not even imagine, at this point, what such a development would mean for the future of downtown," Holliday wrote.

"I commend you and your business partners on your aggressive vision and thank you for your interest in bringing this exciting concept to Greensboro"

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...EC0101/70625027

I think if some depressing areas of town can support a supermarket, I think downtown can support one. People have to look beyond downtown population and look at the population and demographics in a 2 mile radius of downtown and there is alot of residential within that radius. But this project could be so big that supermarket chains such as Harris Teeter want to be a part of this. Its like this is not just a convention/tourist attraction but almost like a community as well with the residential, retail and office being a part of this. It would be really cool if this development had stores like The Gap and Bannana Republic. This development could make it feasible for such retail.

[cityboi]

Also since this would have a convention center in it, its best if this were built on the Duke Power site so all the museums and the city's cultural attractions in the northeast part of downtown will be within close walking distance to the hotel and convention center. Thats very important to convention planners and that something the Koury Convention Center lacks even though it has a mall next to it.

The Depot is pretty close to the Duke Power site as well. Imagine convention goers taking a high speed train or Amtrak to downtown and they would pretty much be at the convention center which would be a few blocks away. Thats very convenient. Of course they could choose the News & Record lot across the street from the depot which puts the hotel and convention center right there, plus having shopping, entertainment options such as an IMAX theater and major and large entertainment venues attracting national acts. This would help put Greensboro on a new level and help give Greensboro a more big city image. I just wish the ACC Hall of Fame could be a part of this. It would have been if it werent for the effort to build it next to the coliseum.

[cityboi]

according to some people on the Disney boards, Disney just purchased some land and buildings in Manhattan and plans will be announced soon (some sort of urban entertainment complex there). The timing of this seems to be a big coincidence with this project proposed for Greensboro with similar type development being proposed and the development company behind Greensboro's is also in Orlando, Fl. Could it be that Disney is planning on opening up multiple complexes across the country in different size markets? I did read something in a Disney article stateing that the company wanted to build attractions that are appropriate for the size market meaning their future urban projects dont have to exclusively be in big cities. If this is not Disney I hope its something just as good or better. Some say it would never be Disney because Greensboro is not already a major tourist area. That might be true but I guess we'll find out soon.

[twincity]

encouraging article!

again, i thought disney put those rumors to rest when they stated that they were looking at major cities for these urban developments?

3-7 does sound pretty huge. if seven then i would assume a more village style development given the ~$200 million pricetag. we know for a fact that at least one building could be a highrise.

[cityboi]

encouraging article!

again, i thought disney put those rumors to rest when they stated that they were looking at major cities for these urban developments?

3-7 does sound pretty huge. if seven then i would assume a more village style development given the ~$200 million pricetag. we know for a fact that at least one building could be a highrise.

encouraging indeed. its TOO early to really say for sure if there will be other highrises besides the hotel...just depends on which plan is selected (seems to be leaning towards the largest) and it depends on the size of the lot. I would guess 2 highrises total is a conservative guess, but thats just a guess. The Business Journal said a "cluster of mid and high-rises". It also appears the city is on the ball with this and not dragging their feet like they have with other downtown projects the city lost. This is definatly good to hear.

[blburton]

I agree. With Southside, condos and apartments currently downtown, the Fisher and Irving Park neighborhoods, and the colleges and universities all within a mile radius of the CBD currently.... a supermarket IMO is overdue. Just because you don't see people walking right out of their homes onto Elm and Greene doesn't necessarily mean that the area near downtown isn't populated. I think that aspect will bode well for the development. Even if the decision is made to go with the smallest concept, it will likely make for, at minimum, a popular local tourist attraction which would put emphasis on downtown and spur more development. I'd much rather this type of development downtown as opposed to something out by Emerald Pointe on the outskirts.

I think if some depressing areas of town can support a supermarket, I think downtown can support one. People have to look beyond downtown population and look at the population and demographics in a 2 mile radius of downtown and there is alot of residential within that radius. But this project could be so big that supermarket chains such as Harris Teeter want to be a part of this. Its like this is not just a convention/tourist attraction but almost like a community as well with the residential, retail and office being a part of this. It would be really cool if this development had stores like The Gap and Bannana Republic. This development could make it feasible for such retail.

[cityboi]

I agree. With Southside, condos and apartments currently downtown, the Fisher and Irving Park neighborhoods, and the colleges and universities all within a mile radius of the CBD currently.... a supermarket IMO is overdue. Just because you don't see people walking right out of their homes onto Elm and Greene doesn't necessarily mean that the area near downtown isn't populated. I think that aspect will bode well for the development. Even if the decision is made to go with the smallest concept, it will likely make for, at minimum, a popular local tourist attraction which would put emphasis on downtown and spur more development. I'd much rather this type of development downtown as opposed to something out by Emerald Pointe on the outskirts.

All I can say is its about time...im sick of everything being built away from downtown. This would be a first of its kind development for NC and im excited about it. I always said I wish the Koury Convention Center were downtown and it looks like we may just get a downtown convention center after all. The more I think about it the more I see a downtown convention center and the Koury Convention Center complimenting one another. Greensboro has a shot at becomiong a MAJOR convention destination in the southeast.

[suburban george3]

From reading this, it looks like Greensboro has won the deal.

While this article is encouraging, it still sounds as if developers/investors are in 'due diligence.' This could 'still' take some time and not neccessarily produce desired outcomes. I will say though only organizations that are extremely commited to the idea of a project will spend the time and money neccessary to go thru due diligence. Let's hope for the best!

[blueJ]

according to some people on the Disney boards, Disney just purchased some land and buildings in Manhattan and plans will be announced soon (some sort of urban entertainment complex there). The timing of this seems to be a big coincidence with this project proposed for Greensboro with similar type development being proposed and the development company behind Greensboro's is also in Orlando, Fl. Could it be that Disney is planning on opening up multiple complexes across the country in different size markets? I did read something in a Disney article stateing that the company wanted to build attractions that are appropriate for the size market meaning their future urban projects dont have to exclusively be in big cities. If this is not Disney I hope its something just as good or better. Some say it would never be Disney because Greensboro is not already a major tourist area. That might be true but I guess we'll find out soon.

Cityboi - do you remember the philanthropist that Greensboro hosted last summer? I don't remember his name, but I do remember that he was a veeery wealthy overseas investor who spent a lot of time downtown. He spent 2-3 days here and seemed quite interested in investing some of his cash in our inner city. I'm surprised that noone has mentioned his visit here or the fact that he showed serious interest in helping with our downtown revitalization. I can't help but wonder if he could be one of the players behind this project . Some things make you go huuuuum !!! Also, ... we might be in for a surprised at the exact location (s) when this project is announced !