210 Trade | EpiCentre

[kayman]

Whatever happens to the Epicentre, it should include more minority-owned businesses in the development. The line in the Charlotte magazine article from the Epic Times jewelry store owner, James Mack, minority small business owner, should be along with more minority business owners included in the re-do. This city is nearly 40% black and  and will only increase with time so this should be considered.  Tacit consent to leaving out non-white business owners isn't kosher at all. Unless, they want to have a repeat of the bad publicity like the No Grease owners with SouthPark then they might want to seriously heed and consider that. 

[jednc]

22 hours ago, j-man said:

Ok nobody is saying anything relevant….so was there any plans announced or no!?

Ha ha. Welcome to 95% of the comments on Urban Planet.

[carolinaboy]

59 minutes ago, RANYC said:

I don't believe Eli's article attributes any of the decline to the CTC or Epicenter's proximity to the CTC.  I tend to agree.

I most agreed with the article's point about Epicenter's horrible design, walled off from the surrounding streetscape like some sort of urban barrack.  When I arrived in Charlotte from NYC in late 2018, I knew nothing about security issues or its adjacency to CTC, and knew I wouldn't return because the design felt corny and suburban-decrepit. 

 

I don't believe Eli's article attributes any of the decline to the CTC or Epicenter's proximity to the CTC.

 

Maybe not, but carolinaboy thinks it has been a factor.

[Temeteron]

1 hour ago, JBS said:

100% agree. I'm in the minority obviously but I think Epicentre can be a great place with the right ownership/tenants.  CTC really negatively impacted it.

Whatever needs to be done, whether it’s rebranding, reconstruction, etc, it needs to attract the locals back.  The visitors are clueless and will listen to whatever the hotel concierge tells them. Believe me, I ubered for a while and I couldn’t believe some of the places that they told me they were told to check out.  The reality is South End is the place to be now.  So until they build something that will attract the locals back to uptown, uptown at night and on the weekends will just be a bunch of lost, clueless out-of-towners.  (With the exception of Brevard Court)

[Desert Power]

8 hours ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

Gut the insides of the smaller buildings and you could create a two story Zara that encompasses the old vida Mexican and bubble spots.

I've always wanted it to be Apple, but OK.

 

[JRCLT]

I feel like apple would fit better in south end.

[Desert Power]

7 hours ago, RANYC said:

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2022/03/15/epicentre-speculation.html

This bizjournal article quotes Noah Lazes, whose ARK Group owns Music Factory,  as saying the likeliest scenario is leveling the 4-story complex for a high-rise.  Is there a part of Epicenter that can be leveled without interfering with the hotels?

Yeah. Tear down the buildings that Bubble, Vida, Blackfinn, Moes, and the like were in. The hotels and garage are a separate structure (thinks like Strike City, Jason's Deli, and Gold's Gym were in it previously). Build a new tower closer to the corner of Trade and College.

One could even imagine an Overstreet Mall style central lobby or courtyard to better feed the tower/hotels as well as pedestrians to the Blue Line. I think the hotels have to hate how bad the pedestrian access is to them. The whole complex was always a PITA to navigate. Not exciting, but very doable and there would be a decent amount of retail spots in the existing structure. An office tower on College and Trade would work even better for this. Just thinking out loud.

[dxartist]

On 3/16/2022 at 1:59 PM, carolinaboy said:

I don't believe Eli's article attributes any of the decline to the CTC or Epicenter's proximity to the CTC.

 

Maybe not, but carolinaboy thinks it has been a factor.

I agree with carolinaboy and can give my perspective.  When I was broke and car-less (2002-2004), I had to catch the 12 Bus on South Blvd to get to work in Uptown.  The CTC felt relatively safe (even at night), but every now-and-then there was a fight, arrest, disturbance, etc.  I get it, it's a public transportation spot and you will have that.  Fast forward a few years, I finally had a running vehicle, but would catch the 12 Route here-and-there to work but the CTC started feeling more unsafe because it was sketchier than I remembered.  With the LINX opening, I would see more loitering around the CTC and on the backside of the Epicentre.  That pretty much steered me away from the going to the Epicentre from the 12 Bus or the LINX.  Over the years on the off chance I did go to Epi (for whatever reason), I would park a few blocks away on South Tryon or an intersecting street at free spot and then walk to whatever establishment there.

As for the Epicentre itself, I seriously doubt that it will ever go back to its successful period.  There's simply too many options (even if everyone is back in the office) and can find better options in South End or around the city.  Nothing there currently interest me anyway.

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

On 3/16/2022 at 8:54 PM, Desert Power said:

I've always wanted it to be Apple, but OK.

 

Just using the example(s) stated in the article posted above. Zara, e-sports etc. Point of the article was that whatever comes here needs to make a splash. Needs to attract ppl. Same ole same ole ain’t going to change things. Needs to be creative, strategic, and somewhat out of the box when thinking about how to reinvent the epicentre. Just using Apple and Zara as an example right now bc they get brought up frequently within these threads…to me, those are two if you build it, they will come stores. Very powerful retail destinations that would have some heavy gravitational pull no matter where you place them.  Not saying those stores should be at the epicentre by any means, but that’s the kind of pull the epicentre needs. 

[deleted account]

On 3/16/2022 at 9:12 PM, Desert Power said:

This bizjournal article quotes Noah Lazes, whose ARK Group owns Music Factory,  as saying the likeliest scenario is leveling the 4-story complex for a high-rise.  Is there a part of Epicenter that can be leveled

Noah Lazes is really smart but I can't see why you would level that when there are surface parking lots a block or two away just waiting to be developed. They need to break some of the units down into much smaller spaces. Food halls are killing it in Charlotte, why couldn't you turn a significant section of Epicentre into a food hall of sorts and anchor the space with a huge brewery and an entertainment venue. So, 25+ food vendors, a big brewery with outdoor beer garden and Pins Mechanical or something similar. I can't believe that wouldn't succeed in the heart of Uptown.  Maybe partner with Charlotte FC to do huge watch parties for away games in the courtyard.  A creative company with resources could make this work...

[Madison Parkitect]

13 minutes ago, JBS said:

Noah Lazes is really smart but I can't see why you would level that when there are surface parking lots a block or two away just waiting to be developed.

A lot of those surface lots are owned by a developer who seems too risk-averse/scared to actually develop the properties.

[deleted account]

11 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

A lot of those surface lots are owned by a developer who seems too risk-averse/scared to actually develop the properties.

True but he has shown a willingness to sell. I just think it would be a travesty to knock down Epicentre and leave the parking garage from hell standing for another 10 years...

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, JBS said:

Noah Lazes is really smart but I can't see why you would level that when there are surface parking lots a block or two away just waiting to be developed. They need to break some of the units down into much smaller spaces. Food halls are killing it in Charlotte, why couldn't you turn a significant section of Epicentre into a food hall of sorts and anchor the space with a huge brewery and an entertainment venue. So, 25+ food vendors, a big brewery with outdoor beer garden and Pins Mechanical or something similar. I can't believe that wouldn't succeed in the heart of Uptown.  Maybe partner with Charlotte FC to do huge watch parties for away games in the courtyard.  A creative company with resources could make this work...

I'd love to see a lush beer garden & plaza w/food hall & arts market concept in uptown...and sure, why not Epicenter?  Wasn't sure whether the economics worked for this sort of use, however.  

Edited March 18, 2022 by RANYC

[carolinaboy]

27 minutes ago, RANYC said:

I'd love to see a lush beer garden & plaza w/food hall & arts market concept in uptown...and sure, why not Epicenter?

Yes. 

[KJHburg]

story on WCNC about the Epicenter including interview with the architect

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/local/uptown-firstward-fourthward/original-project-architect-epicentre-reflects/275-0bac812a-c6a8-4723-b37e-5bab267fbf8b

this condo tower which was cancelled and I am pretty sure everyone lost their deposits on is one of the reasons people are very hesitant here to propose large condo towers.  People lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in deposits.   this developer had not built a high rise up to this point and of course this was never completed.  It was proposed by this developer:  https://flco.com/portfolio/

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by KJHburg

[SouthernSkyline]

48 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

story on WCNC about the Epicenter including interview with the architect

https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/local/uptown-firstward-fourthward/original-project-architect-epicentre-reflects/275-0bac812a-c6a8-4723-b37e-5bab267fbf8b

this condo tower which was cancelled and I am pretty sure everyone lost their deposits on is one of the reasons people are very hesitant here to propose large condo towers.  People lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in deposits.   this developer had not built a high rise up to this point and of course this was never completed.  It was proposed by this developer:  https://flco.com/portfolio/

 

Really wish something like this would happen today. It’s kind of depressing seeing all these apartments going up but no way to actually own anything. This would likely be out of my price range but I am sure many people could afford one.

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

I still believe the trajectory of the epicentre would have been different if this project was built. I imagined an outdoor mall type environment tbh. Actual shopping. 
 

The wariness to build a condo tower is understandable but ppl are begging to purchase condos in this city. Cost this cost that,hard to get financing this and that, I get that. But Man ppl would purchase right now. A modest tower like the one in south end should have been a good project to test the market. Forget the name but the one across from hawkers (the hawk I think). If not, when are apartment towers going to start converting into condos, Vue, catalyst etc. originally built to be condos so quality is there for the most part compared to others. Properties tend to be taken care of better when they are condos and tenants tend to take care of the property better as well. We should be pushing for more condos. Apartments bring in renters but owners are more conscious of the overall quality and better in the long run. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by CharlotteWkndBuzz

[Norm2]

1 hour ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

I still believe the trajectory of the epicentre would have been different if this project was built. I imagined an outdoor mall type environment tbh. Actual shopping. 
 

The wariness to build a condo tower is understandable but ppl are begging to purchase condos in this city. Cost this cost that,hard to get financing this and that, I get that. But Man ppl would purchase right now. A modest tower like the one in south end should have been a good project to test the market. Forget the name but the one across from hawkers (the hawk I think). If not, when are apartment towers going to start converting into condos, Vue, catalyst etc. originally built to be condos so quality is there for the most part compared to others. Properties tend to be taken care of better when they are condos and tenants tend to take care of the property better as well. We should be pushing for more condos. Apartments bring in renters but owners are more conscious of the overall quality and better in the long run. 

I believe it is harder to finance condos. Not to say it can't be done since it's happening in Durham, but between tighter finance laws and the Great Recession, developers are scared to build condos.

[carolina1792]

3 hours ago, norm21499 said:

I believe it is harder to finance condos. Not to say it can't be done since it's happening in Durham, but between tighter finance laws and the Great Recession, developers are scared to build condos.

There's 100-unit 20 story condo project in Downtown Raleigh in the works. Was delay due to COVID but is now rezoned for up-to-40 stories last month.  Not sure the current plan however the developer was confident that the condo tower plans will stay but might get a few more floors higher. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by carolina1792

[KJHburg]

Condo towers requires lots of preselling to be built and with construction costs so high right now  they will be $800-$900 a square foot or more.  Some condos have been built in Charlotte smaller projects with hefty price tags for their units.   Now with rising mortgage rates and rising construction costs I expect condo construction to slow down even more.

I do agree some of the buildings in uptown should convert to condos.  The Catalyst was built to be condos too and quickly turned into rentals when the winds of the market changed.  Dittos of course for the Vue which actually had a few units close and are owned most sold to Northwood.    But condo conversions would be the first step I think. 

In terms of what is going on in Durham they are doing condo apartment towers a mix of owned condos and rented apartments.  Maybe that is a model that could work here too. 

[DMann]

As of today, there are 20 available for sale properties in downtown Charlotte!  As of today there are 49 properties under contract.  Yeah, we could use more inventory.

[RANYC]

37 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Condo towers requires lots of preselling to be built and with construction costs so high right now  they will be $800-$900 a square foot or more.  Some condos have been built in Charlotte smaller projects with hefty price tags for their units.   Now with rising mortgage rates and rising construction costs I expect condo construction to slow down even more.

I do agree some of the buildings in uptown should convert to condos.  The Catalyst was built to be condos too and quickly turned into rentals when the winds of the market changed.  Dittos of course for the Vue which actually had a few units close and are owned most sold to Northwood.    But condo conversions would be the first step I think. 

In terms of what is going on in Durham they are doing condo apartment towers a mix of owned condos and rented apartments.  Maybe that is a model that could work here too. 

Yes, I was reminiscing on high-rise apartment living and the amenities I had and now miss, like movie theater, pool tables, rooftop pool.  My friend from Austin told me she is in a high-rise renting a unit there, but that the top floors have condos.  Hybrid residential high-rise.  Surely that can work here.

[videtur quam contuor]

This has been discussed here in the past and at that time the law was that a condominium developer retains responsibility for workmanship and material repairs (there is a legal wording for this) for seven years, and with the financing issue added no builder wants to deal with this extended responsibility. Capital must be reserved for such potential costs.

Build apartments, sell development, take money, build more elsewhere.

[DMann]

Before Catalyst went all rental it was proposed that the bottom half of the building would be rental and the top half would be condos.  Also, parking was not assigned per unit but available for rental in the parking garage not connected to the building (Behind Ally)

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article259855875.html#storylink=mainstage_lead
 

Epicentre update. Sounds like this is potentially* heading in the right direction with a rebrand, renovation, and new tenants. Looking forward to the new renderings and tenant announcements. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by CharlotteWkndBuzz