210 Trade | EpiCentre

[atlrvr]

I don't believe Regions Bank is involved, but yes lenders looking to get a receiver in place.  That said, CIM is looking to negotiate to modify the debt, so not ready to completely give up yet (though I suspect they would need a pretty sweet deal to not walk away).

[CLT2014]

48 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

I don't believe Regions Bank is involved, but yes lenders looking to get a receiver in place.  That said, CIM is looking to negotiate to modify the debt, so not ready to completely give up yet (though I suspect they would need a pretty sweet deal to not walk away).

Thanks! Fixed my post. Good intel on the modifications. Question -> why would they be evicting tenants that were  paying their lease if they didn't have the cash on hand to pay the mortgage while they reduced the tenant footprint?

Edited July 1, 2021 by CLT2014

[KJHburg]

24 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Thanks! Fixed my post. Good intel on the modifications. Question -> why would they be evicting tenants that were  paying their lease if they didn't have the cash on hand to pay the mortgage while they reduced the tenant footprint?

some of those were not paying rent as they were closed for extended time periods due the executive orders of the Governor.  (the clubs completely closed for months and months , and most of the restaurants)  

[KJHburg]

2 high rises and 3 hotel brands here this is not going anywhere but the rest of the complex needs repositioning as we all know.  I would  love a consortium of our big employers ie Bank of America, Truist and Wells Fargo to buy this out of foreclosure and hire a developer to turn it around and I bet they would not lose any money after a few years when the can resell it.  Come on uptown power brokers save this and turn this place around.  After all your properties you own surround this complex including the BofA owned Ritz Carlton hotel last photo.  A lagging Epicenter hurts your valuable properties.  

[KJHburg]

a story when the Epicenter was the place to be.

Remembering the good times at the Epicentre Charlotte | Charlotte Observer

Like I said I think a consortium of our big banks should buy it out of foreclosure hire a developer to turn it around then sell it in a few years to protect their massive investments nearby.  

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

Gotta get some retail in Uptown somehow. If there was a place for retail tenants to feed off of each other, it’s the epicentre. 3 hotels attached to the complex, across from the ritz, direct light rail access, adjacent to the arena. List goes on and on and there no reason, if executed correctly, this place can be revived. Hopefully, CTC project will happen sooner than later. No more clubs at the epicentre. There’s been a shift in what ppl like to do. Restaurants, shops, and maybe a few bars and entertainment stuff like Tin roof and howl. Bowlero will prob stay. Stuff needs to be open all day. That was originally the problem with the epicentre when it was mainly clubs…it was closed half the day and didn’t generate any foot traffic during the day. Even if it were some general mall stores in here, finish line, American eagle or h&m, men’s warehouse, record shop etc. we need a place to go and buy stuff uptown. 
 

Just got back from walking down elm st in gboro. I mean is it so hard for us to get a boutique shop or record store or anything uptown lol. City should be doing whatever they can to make rent affordable and attract retailers uptown.  I was amazed to see a store like social status there (upscale fashion and sneaker boutique). 
 

Before ppl say south end is where retail is gravitating towards (which is true), I still feel like any downtown needs a healthy balance of retail and so far ours is very very  food&bev heavy. 

[Desert Power]

21 hours ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

Gotta get some retail in Uptown somehow. If there was a place for retail tenants to feed off of each other, it’s the epicentre. 3 hotels attached to the complex, across from the ritz, direct light rail access, adjacent to the arena. List goes on and on and there no reason, if executed correctly, this place can be revived. Hopefully, CTC project will happen sooner than later. No more clubs at the epicentre. There’s been a shift in what ppl like to do. Restaurants, shops, and maybe a few bars and entertainment stuff like Tin roof and howl. Bowlero will prob stay. Stuff needs to be open all day. That was originally the problem with the epicentre when it was mainly clubs…it was closed half the day and didn’t generate any foot traffic during the day. Even if it were some general mall stores in here, finish line, American eagle or h&m, men’s warehouse, record shop etc. we need a place to go and buy stuff uptown. 
 

Just got back from walking down elm st in gboro. I mean is it so hard for us to get a boutique shop or record store or anything uptown lol. City should be doing whatever they can to make rent affordable and attract retailers uptown.  I was amazed to see a store like social status there (upscale fashion and sneaker boutique). 
 

Before ppl say south end is where retail is gravitating towards (which is true), I still feel like any downtown needs a healthy balance of retail and so far ours is very very  food&bev heavy. 

Yeah, I wonder how it would do as basically an enclosed mall with a retail focus. If the CTC and NCRR sites were redeveloped with significant residential units, I think it would stand a much better shot. Really could use a residential tower in that area of town.

[KJHburg]

I could have not written this better myself.  The history of Charlotte subsidized entertainment centers.

Tepper's City Supported Entertainment District (mailchi.mp)

[go_vertical]

I think it's pretty clear that the all-in-one entertainment district idea rarely works out. Sure, they're popular at first but once the novelty wears off people realize it isn't a place they want to spend a significant amount of time at. At least Charlotte has gotten a few built though. Look at what the Orlando Magic has been trying to do for more than a decade with not much to show for their efforts. 

I say instead of another Epicenter they try a master planned piecemeal approach. For example, build something at one corner of an intersection with a handful of establishments. A couple of bars, a restaurant or two, and maybe a Charlotte FC team store. Then, as that's wrapping up start something up across the intersection designed and built by someone else. They can be complimentary but different in vibe/scale/scope etc. Rinse and repeat until the "district" is fleshed out. This wouldn't be organic in the purest sense and it wouldn't give the quickest ROI but if the purpose is to create something with a sense of place and longevity then it's gonna have to be a slow burn. Putting quick profit over everything else has proven time and time again to not be a viable approach. We need to start thinking differently about these things. 

[InSouthPark]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I could have not written this better myself.  The history of Charlotte subsidized entertainment centers.

Tepper's City Supported Entertainment District (mailchi.mp)

I think maybe we should see the plan for the “Entertainment District” before we go ripping on city support of the “Entertainment District”.   Are really worried about 7mil spent on Cityfair and some "sidewalks and minor infrastructure" the city paid for the Epicenter?  Don't we assume a man with tremendous wealth is going to hire the best people to maximize his ROI?  Not some "developer" who was in way over their head.

I don't know if Bricktown in OKC is still as popular as it was (one of the ones mentioned in the article)...but that area near the baseball stadium was awesome back when I was on a project out there for a year.  

[kermit]

29 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

I don't know if Bricktown in OKC is still as popular as it was (one of the ones mentioned in the article)...but that area near the baseball stadium was awesome back when I was on a project out there for a year.  

Make the Belk a river!

[CLT Development]

5 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I could have not written this better myself.  The history of Charlotte subsidized entertainment centers.

Tepper's City Supported Entertainment District (mailchi.mp)

This article reeks of someone who has not been around long enough to know the nuance behind why these concepts failed, and has no grasp on what is actually being planned by Tepper

https://twitter.com/CLTdevelopment/status/1418676449964400643?s=20

 

[KJHburg]

I sure hope any entertainment district will have some housing on it at least on the edges.  That is county or city property and should include a mixture of usages to be successful.  Plus I think a park on this locally owned land in a city starved for parks should be included.  I will wait to see the plan but a mixture of usages is best.  I know some of you HATE the Battery in Atlanta next to Truist Field there but it has hundreds and hundreds of apartments, restaurants, bars, concert venue, a hotel and 2 office buildings.  Atlanta's Premier Entertainment District - Shop, Dine, Play & Stay (batteryatl.com)  It has become the "new downtown" for a county of 760,000 people! 

My whole point is these entertainment centers are tricky to build and need to blend in with the exisiting uptown area.  And I have been to Bricktown in OKC many years ago when it was first started. 

[CltFlyer]

Already, between FNB tower, Circa Uptown, The Mint Apartments, and 500 West trade, there is a healthy amount of apartments/residential in the general area. 

Whenever the parking deck next to FNB is demolished and redeveloped you will likely see more apartments/hotels separate from the entertainment district.  

On a side note.  Do we know if when the parking deck is eventually re-developed.   Is the Residence Inn going to demolished or will it stay?

Also don't forget.  That you  not only have the Carolina Panthers (10-11 home games including preseason) plus hopeful play off games,  the Carolina Panther's fan day, Charlotte FC (17 home games not including pre-season) plus hopeful playoff games,  3 to 4 college games a year (1-2 "kickoff games"/ ACC Championship/Bowl Game), 1 to 2 international soccer matches,  and likely 4 or 5 concerts each year  That is around 40 events a year at BOA alone.  

You combine that with 72 Knights home games, a few regular season college games and hopeful future ACC baseball tournaments.  You are now looking at around 120 days out of the year where you will have some sort of large gathering in that general area.

Given all of the above, Tepper's Entertainment district already looks to be vastly more promising than the 2 aforementioned projects.  

Throw the Gateway Station district/project in and this part of Uptown will easily be the most exciting to watch develop through the next decade or 2.  

[go_vertical]

On 7/23/2021 at 7:16 PM, The Real Clayton said:

,,,,, and has no grasp on what is actually being planned by Tepper

Yeah, and neither do the other 99,9 percent of Charlotte area residents. Has he put information forth as to what he is planning? Renderings? Napkin doodles? Anything? 

We greatly appreciate what you contribute here, and I promise you I'm not trying to be confrontational or sound like a jerk here, but sometimes I think you forget that the rest of us here don't know the people you do, aren't getting CC'd on the emails you get, aren't sitting in on the interviews you give, and certainly don't have access to the visual aids you clearly do. You have the ability to look at uptown and surrounding areas from a future viewpoint while the rest of us are stuck in the present trying to keep our cynicism in check because we have sat and watched too many things be watered down or not materialize the way it was supposed too. I'm sure you have strolled across the 277 rail trail bridge several times in your minds eye, but don't forget that the rest of us aren't holding our breath that it is even going to happen before Elon Musk announces his new company to build Futurama-style pneumatic tubes. 

I just think it would be beneficial for you to sometimes take a small step back and try to understand what the rest of us see and or know before you comment about how much we don't know or how wrong our thoughts are on a subject/project. Just because you're probably right in your thoughts and assumptions given the access to information you are afforded we can only form our opinions based on what is trickled out to the public which sometimes is nothing at all (ahem Duke Metro). 

Edited July 25, 2021 by go_vertical
Future viewpoint sounds much better than futuristic viewpoint.

[B Randy]

7 hours ago, go_vertical said:

Yeah, and neither do the other 99,9 percent of Charlotte area residents. Has he put information forth as to what he is planning? Renderings? Napkin doodles? Anything? 

We greatly appreciate what you contribute here, and I promise you I'm not trying to be confrontational or sound like a jerk here, but sometimes I think you forget that the rest of us here don't know the people you do, aren't getting CC'd on the emails you get, aren't sitting in on the interviews you give, and certainly don't have access to the visual aids you clearly do. You have the ability to look at uptown and surrounding areas from a futuristic viewpoint while the rest of us are stuck in the present trying to keep our cynicism in check because we have sat and watched too many things be watered down or not materialize the way it was supposed too. I'm sure you have strolled across the 277 rail trail bridge several times in your minds eye, but don't forget that the rest of us aren't holding our breath that it is even going to happen before Elon Musk announces his new company to build Futurama-style pneumatic tubes. 

I just think it would be beneficial for you to sometimes take a small step back and try to understand what the rest of us see and or know before you comment about how much we don't know or how wrong our thoughts are on a subject/project. Just because you're probably right in your thoughts and assumptions given the access to information you are afforded we can only form our opinions based on what is trickled out to the public which sometimes is nothing at all (ahem Duke Metro). 

My hot take - I think the larger issue is threefold.  If any one entity has the power to develop a completely new district within a city the following is critical:

1- experience with large scale mixed use development in urban setting.

2- a consultant team on board that can execute the above in a playful yet authentic way, and has the gravitas to push the client to that end.

3- the interests of the evolution of overall City AT LEAST even with their own interests re: enhancing or being in service to their adjacent assets.

If any of the above is not accounted for, the risk of an “entertainment district” being one note, largely inactive, inauthentic, short lived is magnified tenfold…

[15895]

I can only think of the Wharf in DC being a successful entertainment district that was built as one large development. 
 

Everywhere else I’ve been, manufactured entertainment districts have been dead, cold and not lively.
 

L.A. Live was so disappointing. Probably the biggest letdown of a development that I thought would be interesting. & Charlotte already has an entertainment district.... it’s the epicenter. And it was amazing when it opened. Knock down the CTC, add on to that or build on to what is already there. I have a hard time envisioning a different location in downtown would really attract more people than the epicenter location would. Seriously. If they could another diverse entertainment development could be built side-by-side epicenter, it could breathe life into that development and get stores that best suit it.

I rather the city spend money on small businesses and let them get creative with spaces. Redo parking decks, lobby’s. An entertainment district isn’t going to be successful. Just make uptown within reach of small business owners. 

[DCMetroRaleigh]

4 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I can only think of the Wharf in DC being a successful entertainment district that was built as one large development. 
 

Everywhere else I’ve been, manufactured entertainment districts have been dead, cold and not lively.
 

L.A. Live was so disappointing. Probably the biggest letdown of a development that I thought would be interesting. & Charlotte already has an entertainment district.... it’s the epicenter. And it was amazing when it opened. Knock down the CTC, add on to that or build on to what is already there. I have a hard time envisioning a different location in downtown would really attract more people than the epicenter location would. Seriously. If they could another diverse entertainment development could be built side-by-side epicenter, it could breathe life into that development and get stores that best suit it.

I rather the city spend money on small businesses and let them get creative with spaces. Redo parking decks, lobby’s. An entertainment district isn’t going to be successful. Just make uptown within reach of small business owners. 

National Harbor is also pretty successful in PRince George’s County. Also, Baltimore’s Inner Harbor.

[CLT Development]

On 7/24/2021 at 12:19 PM, go_vertical said:

Yeah, and neither do the other 99,9 percent of Charlotte area residents. Has he put information forth as to what he is planning? Renderings? Napkin doodles? Anything? 

We greatly appreciate what you contribute here, and I promise you I'm not trying to be confrontational or sound like a jerk here, but sometimes I think you forget that the rest of us here don't know the people you do, aren't getting CC'd on the emails you get, aren't sitting in on the interviews you give, and certainly don't have access to the visual aids you clearly do. You have the ability to look at uptown and surrounding areas from a future viewpoint while the rest of us are stuck in the present trying to keep our cynicism in check because we have sat and watched too many things be watered down or not materialize the way it was supposed too. I'm sure you have strolled across the 277 rail trail bridge several times in your minds eye, but don't forget that the rest of us aren't holding our breath that it is even going to happen before Elon Musk announces his new company to build Futurama-style pneumatic tubes. 

I just think it would be beneficial for you to sometimes take a small step back and try to understand what the rest of us see and or know before you comment about how much we don't know or how wrong our thoughts are on a subject/project. Just because you're probably right in your thoughts and assumptions given the access to information you are afforded we can only form our opinions based on what is trickled out to the public which sometimes is nothing at all (ahem Duke Metro). 

I think the issue is just one of semantics, Tepper called it an entertainment district, and people automatically assumed he was talking a district of one-two story buildings. I had reporters asking me what I thought about the city's sudden shift to calling it a "mixed-use district." The fact is, land prices in Uptown Charlotte would not make a project like this feasible. We should expect something a little less dense than Victory Park in Dallas, which has its own TIF district. 

[KJHburg]

Speaking of Victory Park in Dallas I was there a couple years ago pre Covid.  Though anchored by the American Airlines Arena and several office and apartment towers I felt it was sterile  and seemingly very planned out. I got off the DART station there and walked around a bit.   It is on the edge of downtown Dallas but I felt the nearby area was more authethic.   There are several entertainment districts more naturally evolved in Dallas like Deep Ellum and this is not one of them.  That is problem with this districts they are very tricky to pull off even with lots of money.  Why has Southend overtaken uptown Charlotte as the premier entertainment district? I think it is more authethic and organic.  The biggest entertainment center really uptown now is 5th St.   (and maybe Music Factory but not sure how it is doing since the pandemic)    I would rather work with Mr Tepper on a mixed use project with residential retail and an entertainment component.  However since this is county owned land I think a park on some portion of the training fields could attract people day and night.   And yes county owned land should have an affordable housing component no matter who is developing it.  

[Blue_Devil]

High-End Casino and football and MLS gambling. Work with the State/City/Tribes and get it done. Add 1000s of Apartments and Hotels with it. 

Boom. 

[KJHburg]

I forgot about this.  This was CIM Group's plan before Covid.  Maybe they are using their bankruptcy of that project to reduce their debt. 

Check this out and yes this could happen at the Epicenter no reason why not as long as the offices workers return en masse.

Remember the 3 hotels there are not going anywhere.  They own "condo" units of the greater complex. 

This to me looks like 5th and Broadway in Nashville and this project can rise again just like many neighborhoods and areas of Charlotte have over the last few years. 

here is a project they did in Austin 

Austin Case Study | CIM Group

 

15769.pdf

Edited July 26, 2021 by KJHburg

[nakers2]

This place needs saving, and quick.

[Temeteron]

24 minutes ago, nakers2 said:

This place needs saving, and quick.

What’s weird is that if you are trying to get a fast cookie from insomnia or something to go they expect you to park in the garage and pay $12-$20.  There is only two spots in the front that is temporary spots and the rest is valet. Who valets in the middle of the day? SMH

[nakers2]

42 minutes ago, Temeteron said:

What’s weird is that if you are trying to get a fast cookie from insomnia or something to go they expect you to park in the garage and pay $12-$20.  There is only two spots in the front that is temporary spots and the rest is valet. Who valets in the middle of the day? SMH

In the past I’d have given you a hard time for feeling entitled to parking in uptown, but frankly even living in uptown, the large blocks and summer heat sometimes make driving the preferred option. IMO Charlotte needs to embrace the natural congestion that comes with dense urban zones. IE, double parking, taxi stands, short term curb parking, clearly marked loading zones *outside* bike lanes, etc. As far as the Epicenter goes, I’m not against paid parking, but the cost is inherently more than the ample number of decks around and I do agree that the businesses inside are hurting from, among *many* things, the lack of what I’d call “quick visits” to places like insomnia or the CVS. A 10-15 min grace period, validation, and or a cheap 1 dollar for the first hour system (like the airport) would generate more traffic, guaranteed.