Virginia Beach off-topic

[varider]

For those of us who agree that it’s utterly offensive to oppose projects such as these, now is the time to write to CC, show our support, speak at the public hearing, etc. I am so sick and tired of the excessive “public input” opportunities about literally everything in this city. It’s not that serious. We won’t have ANY development in VB unless we can build a stronger and more diverse economy. We are STAGNANT and by some estimates we are SHRINKING. Some of us want to live in a growing area, and frankly could care less about preservation of the “Green Line.” Maybe if our city was much larger (600K-750K), the idea would be more appealing, but as it stands now, it is truly disheartening to know that so many people around here are so concerned with preservation of the status quo than any real or actual progress. How have they not noticed that VB has been left in the dust by the rest of the Sun Belt? How can you be OK with entire generations leaving this area because there’s no room for them to grow their lives, careers, relationships, businesses? It is so selfish and disingenuous to prioritize the green line/rural character of the city over the actual growth and livelihood of the people within the city. 
—————————————————-

“When you’re talking about this amount of capital investment in excess of 150, almost 200 million dollars and you’re talking about 400 new jobs that pay above the median average for the region, this is a project that any community in the country would be honored to have,” Adams said.

https://www.wtkr.com/news/southern-virginia-beach-could-be-site-of-major-development

& that is the part that makes me sick. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by varider

[vdogg]

2 hours ago, varider said:

For those of us who agree that it’s utterly offensive to oppose projects such as these, now is the time to write to CC, show our support, speak at the public hearing, etc. I am so sick and tired of the excessive “public input” opportunities about literally everything in this city. It’s not that serious. We won’t have ANY development in VB unless we can build a stronger and more diverse economy. We are STAGNANT and by some estimates we are SHRINKING. Some of us want to live in a growing area, and frankly could care less about preservation of the “Green Line.” Maybe if our city was much larger (600K-750K), the idea would be more appealing, but as it stands now, it is truly disheartening to know that so many people around here are so concerned with preservation of the status quo than any real or actual progress. How have they not noticed that VB has been left in the dust by the rest of the Sun Belt? How can you be OK with entire generations leaving this area because there’s no room for them to grow their lives, careers, relationships, businesses? It is so selfish and disingenuous to prioritize the green line/rural character of the city over the actual growth and livelihood of the people within the city. 
—————————————————-

“When you’re talking about this amount of capital investment in excess of 150, almost 200 million dollars and you’re talking about 400 new jobs that pay above the median average for the region, this is a project that any community in the country would be honored to have,” Adams said.

https://www.wtkr.com/news/southern-virginia-beach-could-be-site-of-major-development

& that is the part that makes me sick. 

From the article it seems that Henley is the only one truly against it. If that’s the case, this may be a moot issue. As for public input, you’re always going to have to have that. Any major project requires public input, such is the nature of our representative democracy. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, NIMBYs will always NIMBY. More important than that is the decision makers whom sit in council chambers. I find it highly unlikely that they’re going to pass up 400 high paying jobs. It’s much easier to deny an apartment tower or condo, than it is to deny something that will add to the city’s commercial and industrial tax base.

[vdogg]

Another article, again with Henley being the vocal one. *Maybe Remick is against too, though hard to tell. Given how the pilot digs for any type of opposition they can find, the silence from the rest of the council tells me that they're probably on board.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-virginia-beach-rezoning-land-0427-20230427-t2kfzdrlmnc3hmesn3argjlquq-story.html

[HRVA]

2 hours ago, vdogg said:

Another article, again with Henley being the vocal one. *Maybe Remick is against too, though hard to tell. Given how the pilot digs for any type of opposition they can find, the silence from the rest of the council tells me that they're probably on board.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-virginia-beach-rezoning-land-0427-20230427-t2kfzdrlmnc3hmesn3argjlquq-story.html

Holcomb’s comments during the presentation gave me the impression he was opposed. The biggest issue I see is the location in relation to its planned land use in the comp plan. The site appears to be the Agricultural Production area of the ITA Plan that was approved in 2017. That alone should trigger automatic recommendations for denial from the Planning Department & Commission and will put any council member who voted for the plan in a weird spot. The opposition is already citing the conflict with the comp plan. 

[BFG]

The NBA is working with Something in the Water to rehab old basketball courts in the Lake Edward neighborhood. The courts are next to the upcoming Virginia African-American Cultural Center.

https://www.pilotonline.com/entertainment/festivals/vp-nw-sitw-basketball-court-rehab-0428-20230427-dwydksu4ynhn5gchbj5csqfu4y-story.html

[vdogg]

1 hour ago, BFG said:

The NBA is working with Something in the Water to rehab old basketball courts in the Lake Edward neighborhood. The courts are next to the upcoming Virginia African-American Cultural Center.

https://www.pilotonline.com/entertainment/festivals/vp-nw-sitw-basketball-court-rehab-0428-20230427-dwydksu4ynhn5gchbj5csqfu4y-story.html

What a fantastic thing for the community. I know people have varying views of Pharrell as a person, but it is undeniable that him and his organization truly care for and give back to the community. We’re lucky to have something like this here. I think SITW is one of the most successful endeavors Va. Beach has ever engaged in.

[BFG]

Now just need Pharrell to bring an NBA or WNBA team.

A man can dream, can’t he?

[baobabs727]

On 4/27/2023 at 3:01 AM, varider said:

For those of us who agree that it’s utterly offensive to oppose projects such as these, now is the time to write to CC, show our support, speak at the public hearing, etc. I am so sick and tired of the excessive “public input” opportunities about literally everything in this city. It’s not that serious. We won’t have ANY development in VB unless we can build a stronger and more diverse economy. We are STAGNANT and by some estimates we are SHRINKING. Some of us want to live in a growing area, and frankly could care less about preservation of the “Green Line.” Maybe if our city was much larger (600K-750K), the idea would be more appealing, but as it stands now, it is truly disheartening to know that so many people around here are so concerned with preservation of the status quo than any real or actual progress. How have they not noticed that VB has been left in the dust by the rest of the Sun Belt? How can you be OK with entire generations leaving this area because there’s no room for them to grow their lives, careers, relationships, businesses? It is so selfish and disingenuous to prioritize the green line/rural character of the city over the actual growth and livelihood of the people within the city. 
—————————————————-

“When you’re talking about this amount of capital investment in excess of 150, almost 200 million dollars and you’re talking about 400 new jobs that pay above the median average for the region, this is a project that any community in the country would be honored to have,” Adams said.

https://www.wtkr.com/news/southern-virginia-beach-could-be-site-of-major-development

& that is the part that makes me sick. 

Agreed. I've already done all of that. And I would encourage everyone else here to do so. NOW.

Hush, oh wise one. You may not speak those hard, cold, sobering, depressing facts around here. Some people don't want to face the reality that their hopes and dreams may have been for naught; that their aspirations for HR--and by extension for their own lives and image--may never actually come to fruition in their lifetime; and that perhaps they should have left the region for greener pastures when they had the chance....like nearly every one of their educated peers did.   Rose-colored glasses, alone, are not sufficient to render the intelligent among us on UP HR silent on those key economic realities. Nay, the ego, the self-image, the projected image (to others w/whom they compete or seek to impress) is quite fragile and must be protected at all costs.  Enter stage left: The Willing Suspension of Disbelief.  Sigh.  I want to vomit.  (Sorry, I don't live in fantasyland.)

On 4/27/2023 at 5:36 AM, vdogg said:

From the article it seems that Henley is the only one truly against it. If that’s the case, this may be a moot issue. As for public input, you’re always going to have to have that. Any major project requires public input, such is the nature of our representative democracy. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, NIMBYs will always NIMBY. More important than that is the decision makers whom sit in council chambers. I find it highly unlikely that they’re going to pass up 400 high paying jobs. It’s much easier to deny an apartment tower or condo, than it is to deny something that will add to the city’s commercial and industrial tax base.

She is opposed. And she's ANGRY about it. Henley is seemingly preternaturally opposed to development most anywhere in VB, but when the proposed development is located within her district boundaries, rest assured that her default reaction is borderline psychotic.

18 hours ago, vdogg said:

What a fantastic thing for the community. I know people have varying views of Pharrell as a person, but it is undeniable that him and his organization truly care for and give back to the community. We’re lucky to have something like this here. I think SITW is one of the most successful endeavors Va. Beach has ever engaged in.

Fair point.  Just wish this festival would have come to fruition 10-20 years ago when I would have been much more interested and engaged in the leading/cutting-edge music scene lol.  The wavegarden will be very nice. I just hope that the project isn't delayed or watered down in the trailing phases of development. 

On 4/27/2023 at 12:39 PM, vdogg said:

Another article, again with Henley being the vocal one. *Maybe Remick is against too, though hard to tell. Given how the pilot digs for any type of opposition they can find, the silence from the rest of the council tells me that they're probably on board.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-virginia-beach-rezoning-land-0427-20230427-t2kfzdrlmnc3hmesn3argjlquq-story.html

BTW, the good oI' boy from District 1 is opposed simply b/c Barbara is opposed. Isn't that sweet of him?  He's a bit of a dunce. Don't ask me how I know.   As for Remick, I've told you all before:  WATCH HIM CLOSELY.  I certainly do.  I listen to his every word. He's definitely a wild card at the moment.  However, I do not get good vibes from him. Never have. What his campaign did to my former neighbor was despicable and both slanderous and libelous. Don't let his occupation fool you. So he's a commercial real estate agent specializing in the industrial sector?! Big whoop. Watch what he does. Listen to what he says. And watch Bruce Smith.  Remick owes him big. 

 

On 4/27/2023 at 1:15 PM, HRVA said:

Holcomb’s comments during the presentation gave me the impression he was opposed. The biggest issue I see is the location in relation to its planned land use in the comp plan. The site appears to be the Agricultural Production area of the ITA Plan that was approved in 2017. That alone should trigger automatic recommendations for denial from the Planning Department & Commission and will put any council member who voted for the plan in a weird spot. The opposition is already citing the conflict with the comp plan. 

Opposed, yes.  That is unless Barbara changes her mind. Which is highly doubtful!  I understand your opposition (?), but remember this particular carve-out of the green line has a special and unique history. Geographically extreme to the North and with a marked boundary irregularity (due to a particuarly famous land purchase), this area is now surrounded by fairly compatible uses, imo (except maybe for the "back" portion bordering existing residential developments that would be impacted by phases 2 and 3....IF those phases ever came to fruition).  Generically,  I believe in a certain plasticity in planning that allows for the reconsideration of any tool or document in light of structural shifts in the local and national economy or a change in economic outlook. Virginia Beach cannot afford to stand on bureaucratic dogma when it comes to "high" wage job creation.  City staff has told us that they scoured the entire city for suitable city-owned parcels, and this one was the only one left that could accommodate a development such as the one proposed here. 

Oh, by the way, half way through the presentation at Informal, Barbara pursed her lips and narrowed her gaze and then asked the City Attorney, Mark Stiles, if a re-zoning of the property would require a "super-majority" (9-3) vote by City Council.  HEH,  SHE WISHES!!!!  Mr. Stiles more or less answered that he'd have to do more research on the subject....

Edited April 28, 2023 by baobabs727

[HRVA]

2 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Opposed, yes.  That is unless Barbara changes her mind. Which is highly doubtful!  I understand your opposition (?), but remember this particular carve-out of the green line has a special and unique history. Geographically extreme to the North and with a marked boundary irregularity (due to a particuarly famous land purchase), this area is now surrounded by fairly compatible uses, imo (except maybe for the "back" portion bordering existing residential developments that would be impacted by phases 2 and 3....IF those phases ever came to fruition).  Generically,  I believe in a certain plasticity in planning that allows for the reconsideration of any tool or document in light of structural shifts in the local and national economy or a change in economic outlook. Virginia Beach cannot afford to stand on bureaucratic dogma when it comes to "high" wage job creation.  City staff has told us that they scoured the entire city for suitable city-owned parcels, and this one was the only one left that could accommodate a development such as the one proposed here. 

Oh, by the way, half way through the presentation at Informal, Barbara pursed her lips and narrowed her gaze and then asked the City Attorney, Mark Stiles, if a re-zoning of the property would require a "super-majority" (9-3) vote by City Council.  HEH,  SHE WISHES!!!!  Mr. Stiles more or less answered that he'd have to do more research on the subject....

Oh I’m not opposed just wanted to point out potential issues facing the proposal.  I would expect the rezoning to be a simple majority vote but the sale of the land I believe is where the supermajority may come into play. 

[vdogg]

8 hours ago, HRVA said:

Oh I’m not opposed just wanted to point out potential issues facing the proposal.  I would expect the rezoning to be a simple majority vote but the sale of the land I believe is where the supermajority may come into play. 

I think it's time to amend the city charter to reduce the number of instances where a super majority is required. It really hamstrings the approval process and gives the minority on council way too much decision making power on important issues. It's an inherently antidemocratic process and should be used sparingly and in only the most extreme of circumstances.

[Lluck002]

On 4/26/2023 at 2:50 PM, vdogg said:

Honestly guys, this one is really tough. I can see both points. All those jobs would be amazing, but the green line is a delicate delicate thing. My concern is that if we allow it to be breached for one development, the floodgates will open and then several developments will soon follow. If that happens, then we’re back to the relentless suburban sprawl of the 70s and 80s, which I don’t think any of us want. This is one of those times where I think VA BEACH is right to take their time and make sure we do this right. 

I agree. The Green Line helps encourage further densification and urbanization of already-developed areas rather than the continuation of suburban sprawl.

(Unfortunately, many in the more rural areas who oppose urban projects at the Oceanfront and Town Center don’t realize that they are indirectly putting their rural land at risk. If we don’t build up, we’ll have to build out.)

[baobabs727]

On 4/28/2023 at 6:41 PM, HRVA said:

Oh I’m not opposed just wanted to point out potential issues facing the proposal.  I would expect the rezoning to be a simple majority vote but the sale of the land I believe is where the supermajority may come into play. 

Ahh. Ok. Gotcha. 

On 4/29/2023 at 3:20 AM, vdogg said:

I think it's time to amend the city charter to reduce the number of instances where a super majority is required. It really hamstrings the approval process and gives the minority on council way too much decision making power on important issues. It's an inherently antidemocratic process and should be used sparingly and in only the most extreme of circumstances.

Agreed!

On 4/29/2023 at 8:54 AM, Lluck002 said:

I agree. The Green Line helps encourage further densification and urbanization of already-developed areas rather than the continuation of suburban sprawl.

(Unfortunately, many in the more rural areas who oppose urban projects at the Oceanfront and Town Center don’t realize that they are indirectly putting their rural land at risk. If we don’t build up, we’ll have to build out.)

Understood, but with projects like these, Virginia Beach is at a distinct disadvantage to other Virginia localities when it comes to sizable parcels that are ready to go. We just don’t have any North of the green line.

[Lluck002]

On 5/1/2023 at 12:26 AM, baobabs727 said:

Understood, but with projects like these, Virginia Beach is at a distinct disadvantage to other Virginia localities when it comes to sizable parcels that are ready to go. We just don’t have any North of the green line.

Well, there’s PLENTY of developable land north of the Green Line but Virginia Beach loves to use it all for surface parking lots……….

[HRVA]

1 hour ago, Lluck002 said:

Well, there’s PLENTY of developable land north of the Green Line but Virginia Beach loves to use it all for surface parking lots……….

Where is there 250 acres of contiguous land anywhere in Virginia Beach that is used as a parking lot? How many 250 acre sites, developed or undeveloped, are there north of the green line?

[KJHburg]

and yes I took my friend who just moved here south to the Pungo  and Creeds area today.  She was stunned at the farmland.  

Urban growth boundaries have their pluses and minuses

[urbanvb]

It’s amazing how rural south VB can be. Almost feels like another place far away…

[KJHburg]

9 hours ago, urbanvb said:

It’s amazing how rural south VB can be. Almost feels like another place far away…

that is exactly what my friend said.  she recently moved here but never been below municipal complex in Princess Anne. 

[metalman]

Beautiful place out there.  

[HRVA]

Looks like a pretty big economic development announcement got pulled at the last minute yesterday. A $1.5 million grant was to be awarded by the Development Authority with the recipient announced by the Governor before the meeting. Not sure the scale that kind of grant warrants but it’s significantly larger than recent announcements. Hopefully whatever it is, it’s just delayed and not dead. 

[varider]

https://www.wavy.com/video/project-wayne-vb-says-unnamed-medical-manufacturer-will-bring-jobs-back-to-u-s-residents-say-it-violates-green-line-policy/8654832/

I really have no faith in VB council approving a rezoning/ sale for this with all the opposition but I hope that somehow we can save this project for Chesapeake or Suffolk perhaps

[NFKjeff]

21 hours ago, HRVA said:

Looks like a pretty big economic development announcement got pulled at the last minute yesterday. A $1.5 million grant was to be awarded by the Development Authority with the recipient announced by the Governor before the meeting. Not sure the scale that kind of grant warrants but it’s significantly larger than recent announcements. Hopefully whatever it is, it’s just delayed and not dead. 

This is the norm for VB. They are anti-development, pro-agrarian (old money). Green line or not, they seem to be opposed to almost any development/progress.

[varider]

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-bruce-smith-rudee-apartments-0518-20230519-6r4ahycdgnc6xd7yqwtu74qlz4-story.html

Another day, another development controversy. Bruce Smith wants to build 200 apartments at Rudee Loop, but of course he's facing opposition and the classic VB "whoa whoa, let's slow down here and do some planning first." I swear VB operates as if we all are going to live 100 more years. It blows my mind people 60, 70+ years old can constantly just delay and slow down every progressive thing that could possibly happen around here. It's funny how we are "running out of land" in the city and we want to preserve the green line, but any proposal for density anywhere in the city is an automatic controversy. The same people who want to preserve the green line are the same NIMBYs against any sort of development, and the same people who want to turn the entire Rudee Loop into a park. For example, they are trying to redevelop Kemps River Shopping Center,  but all the NIMBYs are afraid the traffic will be bad or whatever they complain about. How are we supposed to preserve the green line if they will fight any and all infill or redevelopment.

& speaking of Bruce Smith, what ever happened to the 78 St Pauls project? A whole lot of hype at the start, but a year later the project is dead silent 

Edited May 19, 2023 by varider

[BFG]

I know it’s never too late but with the VB NIMBYs and Norfolk shutting down everything* and dragging its feet on anything, I’ve about had my limit with this area refusing to be progressive and accepting the status quo. It’ll always be home but I’m slowly warming up to the idea of moving to another area that wants to actually grow  

*Remember First Friday?

[varider]

First Fridays was an absolute hit. It could have blossomed into something truly special. People who never ever went downtown were finding out cool new spots and it felt like it could have been Nashville, Austin, NOLA, etc. But I guess it was too successful and the city just couldn’t handle it? I can’t believe I used to imagine a pro sports team here. We just don’t handle big events well at all, whether if it’s traffic, safety, or whatever the issue, we just aren’t built for it. I really wouldn’t be surprised if SITW is the next thing they shut down. It’s just too much HYPE for this area to even handle. 

[BFG]

I’ve worked at ODU for 15 years. The growth has been insane. 

When they realized the Field House was too small, they built The Ted. Up until the mid-90s the men’s basketball team played at Scope, and at one point ODU considered going in with the city on a new arena. Now, I think they built The Ted more so for more revenue, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the university got tired of Norfolk kicking the can down the road. 

The football program has been pretty successful since ‘09, with the bowl games and decent attendance. When they knew they needed a new stadium for FBS, they started tearing down Foreman literally the same night they played their last home game.

Then the growth of the campus itself with construction constantly happening. My point? Norfolk and VB need the momentum and vision ODU’s had in just the last decade. They were moving in the right direction 10 years ago then lost it all.