New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)

[nashvylle]

33 minutes ago, Nashvillain said:

Your contention that a new stadium "will most certainly bring in more revenue" is not backed up by any data. 

I am not speaking for @Luvemtall, but if he/she were saying the new stadium will bring in more revenue than Nissan Stadium is currently providing, that is true. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by nashvylle

[Nashvillain]

I may not know accounting, but I know how to read: 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/

https://www.investigativepost.org/2021/12/13/little-economic-benefit-from-new-stadium/

https://econreview.berkeley.edu/the-economics-of-sports-stadiums-does-public-financing-of-sports-stadiums-create-local-economic-growth-or-just-help-billionaires-improve-their-profit-margin/

[DDIG]

Basically for me it boils down to Nashville is one of the best set-up major events downtowns in the Country, maybe the best. The entertainment and hotels on the West side, a cool walk over the bridge to the venue. With the right stadium we will get EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING.

We will get a College Football playoff, we will get a Final Four, we will get a Super Bowl. Some people don't care / don't like that, I love it though as it raises the status of the city on the whole. 

[nashvylle]

1 hour ago, Nashvillain said:

I may not know accounting, but I know how to read: 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sports-jobs-taxes-are-new-stadiums-worth-the-cost/

https://www.investigativepost.org/2021/12/13/little-economic-benefit-from-new-stadium/

https://econreview.berkeley.edu/the-economics-of-sports-stadiums-does-public-financing-of-sports-stadiums-create-local-economic-growth-or-just-help-billionaires-improve-their-profit-margin/

All I am saying a dome stadium will bring in more revenue than Nissan stadium because there simply will be more events. Revenue is not the end all be all, and I am not saying that. 

There are several articles in favor of stadiums too. I agree with a lot of what is said in the articles you posted. However none of those articles are netting out the potential costs from a lawsuit against metro for defaulting on a lease or not paying outstanding capital improvements ($30+ million) due to the team. 

Comparing the current deal in Nashville to the deal in Buffalo is a bad comparison, though. Buffalo will be an open air stadium in the middle of a sea of parking lots only, away from anything in Buffalo, utilized maybe 10-12 days a year. Nashville could create newly available land for affordable housing, parks, grocery stores, etc. across from downtown... and have 25+ events year round and host Super Bowls, Final Fours, NCAA College Football Playoffs, etc., forego $60MM outstanding and owed by our general fund, and avoid a potential lawsuit against the city where a judge will be presented with three independent consultant reports stating the stadium obligations owed by Metro are $1Billion+. 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by nashvylle

[samsonh]

1 hour ago, tragenvol said:

Some of y'all didn't take a ton of accounting in school, or any even, and it shows.....not to be too argumentative, but the apparent additional use planned for this particular all-purpose building would realistically generate more revenue (FOR ERR'BODY) than a building used less than twenty-five times per year.  I think you would agree to state the above contention rather in terms of revenues over expenditures,; that's a different argument, if not, my bad.

Unfortunately we have no idea how often it will be used. One would think if it were going to be used far more often that it would pay for itself easier, rather than requiring half of the 100+ acres of the surrounding prime real estate’s sales taxes. 
 

We all want nicer facilities. It’s a matter of getting a good deal for the taxpayer. 

[Melrose]

32 minutes ago, samsonh said:

Unfortunately we have no idea how often it will be used. One would think if it were going to be used far more often that it would pay for itself easier, rather than requiring half of the 100+ acres of the surrounding prime real estate’s sales taxes. 
 

We all want nicer facilities. It’s a matter of getting a good deal for the taxpayer. 

The boosters of Final Fours and Super Bowls and College Football  Playoffs ( which by the way will absolutely suck for almost everyone who lives here because we have no transit and subpar infrastructure) act like this Nashville stadium will be the last new stadium ever built.  Nashville will likely get at most one of each of these events,  it will never be in the regular rotation with the real destination cities and then other secondary cities will fall for the same stadium  scams and build newer stadiums to get their one coveted Super Bowl and Nashville will be at the back of the line again at best. Then in 15 years we will hear about all of the new bells and whistles that Nashville’s stadium just doesn’t have, but maybe if we fund some upgrades, we will be back in the game. 

 Rinse and repeat…..

[nashvylle]

12 hours ago, Melrose said:

The boosters of Final Fours and Super Bowls and College Football  Playoffs ( which by the way will absolutely suck for almost everyone who lives here because we have no transit and subpar infrastructure) act like this Nashville stadium will be the last new stadium ever built.  Nashville will likely get at most one of each of these events,  it will never be in the regular rotation with the real destination cities and then other secondary cities will fall for the same stadium  scams and build newer stadiums to get their one coveted Super Bowl and Nashville will be at the back of the line again at best. Then in 15 years we will hear about all of the new bells and whistles that Nashville’s stadium just doesn’t have, but maybe if we fund some upgrades, we will be back in the game. 

 Rinse and repeat…..

I do agree with you for certain cities. I think New Orleans and Atlanta have found a way to stay in the rotation and not be a one and done after they build the stadium. I would bet Nashville is a city that could become part of the rotation. Minneapolis - it’s just so cold when these big events take place. 

[andywildman]

16 hours ago, Nashvillain said:

Your contention that a new stadium "will most certainly bring in more revenue" is not backed up by any data. 

 

15 hours ago, tragenvol said:

Some of y'all didn't take a ton of accounting in school, or any even, and it shows.....not to be too argumentative, but the apparent additional use planned for this particular all-purpose building would realistically generate more revenue (FOR ERR'BODY) than a building used less than twenty-five times per year.  I think you would agree to state the above contention rather in terms of revenues over expenditures,; that's a different argument, if not, my bad.

Exactly this: a new stadium will 100% generate more revenue, especially in the first 5-to-10 years after it is built, than Nissan would. But it likely won't generate $1B more in taxes to the city via ticket sales & hotel rooms & everything else we'd need to recoup the expense.

The value of the East Bank is highest with a new stadium (that we'd be gifting to the Titans, making the Adams family even more wealthy), and I think that it'll get approved here in the next couple months, but I'd love for the council to push for more concessions from the Titans and from the state house before approving it: future cost (like maintenance overruns) being funded through the Titans, and further transit & sustainable development funding from the state.

[grilled_cheese]

I sure am glad my freedom to talk about a sportsball facility on the internet is protected.  I bet that's what those people had in mind when they signed on the dotted line.

9 minutes ago, andywildman said:

 

a new stadium will 100% generate more revenue

Uh, huh.  And they said the other stadium would last 50 years.  Ya'll lyin and makin sh it up just like last time.

[Rick Dalton]

You guys get so salty about something that doesn’t cost you a dime

[andywildman]

10 minutes ago, natethegreat said:

You guys get so salty about something that doesn’t cost you a dime

Nothing out of my pocket today, which is why I'm not vehemently opposed.

The cost as I see it is opportunity cost. If Metro doesn't go down the path of new stadium, there's sales tax revenue that we don't earmark for the new stadium, which could fund other things (or prevent future property tax increases).

[Melrose]

1 hour ago, andywildman said:

 

Exactly this: a new stadium will 100% generate more revenue, especially in the first 5-to-10 years after it is built, than Nissan would. But it likely won't generate $1B more in taxes to the city via ticket sales & hotel rooms & everything else we'd need to recoup the expense.

The value of the East Bank is highest with a new stadium (that we'd be gifting to the Titans, making the Adams family even more wealthy), and I think that it'll get approved here in the next couple months, but I'd love for the council to push for more concessions from the Titans and from the state house before approving it: future cost (like maintenance overruns) being funded through the Titans, and further transit & sustainable development funding from the state.

Yes, the Council needs to push for much more, because Cooper has basically just accepted the Titans opening offer.  This thing can’t be stopped,  but the City can do much much better. 
 

On the Adamses, it needs to be said again that they absolutely plan to sell the team in a few years, so the City is basically being used as a credit card that the Adamses can’t afford to juice the value.   This is the most criminal element of this deal and should not be allowed without the City getting something on the back end.  

[samsonh]

43 minutes ago, natethegreat said:

You guys get so salty about something that doesn’t cost you a dime

The only way it doesn't cost other Davidson county taxpayers a dime is if the residents and businesses in the new development area do not require any city services. Otherwise the burden is being spread to all existing taxpayers. This is pretty simple and why I am the most frustrated. 

[Rick Dalton]

8 minutes ago, samsonh said:

The only way it doesn't cost other Davidson county taxpayers a dime is if the residents and businesses in the new development area do not require any city services. Otherwise the burden is being spread to all existing taxpayers. This is pretty simple and why I am the most frustrated. 

So you just don’t want any new residents and businesses? You prefer a parking lot?

[grilled_cheese]

Anyone pro new stadium is anti Nashville.

It's not even like the franchise was born here, it came from somewhere else.

Cooper hosing Nashville.

Anyone from outside The Great State of Davidson county should not even comment. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by grilled_cheese

[Nash_12South]

If there are better funding measures for building a new stadium, that burden taxpayers less, that all parties will agree to, then present them. Don't just present the problem, present a workable solution.

The annoying thing about free speech is that it works both ways. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Nash_12South

[samsonh]

24 minutes ago, natethegreat said:

So you just don’t want any new residents and businesses? You prefer a parking lot?

That is not the debate at hand. I was responding to your comment it won't cost a dime, when quite clearly it will.

[tragenvol]

43 minutes ago, grilled_cheese said:

 

Anyone from outside The Great State of Davidson county should not even comment. 

No one should tell you how to opine, but a half billion dollars in state money says differently.

[DDIG]

36 minutes ago, tragenvol said:

No one should tell you how to opine, but a half billion dollars in state money says differently.

Fair but the state money is a done deal as per the people you elected 

[Luvemtall]

This bitterness and bickering isn’t going to get us nowhere. And with the state putting in 500 million, yes it’s on all of Tennessee. That money has to come for somewhere, and be sure it’s from some form of tax. Look as I mentioned before this is a done deal… some of you may not want to buy into that, but in reality it was a done deal way back before it even came public. And it’s just not Mayor Copper and The Titans , it’s all the big wigs of Amazon,Oracle,Bridgestone,General Motors, etc..etc. you get the picture. Why do you think the State was so fast to pony up the cash, it’s the way the wheels turn. Big Business and politics ( from both sides) is how things move, we could all complain about it, but it’s NOT going to change a thing. We just need to find the positive, cause negativity will get us nothing. Now bring on the renderings!! 

[markhollin]

If new Titans Stadium is built, the current  naming rights deal with Nissan ($5 million annually) will no longer apply, and it will become open for new bids.  A new facility might fetch in the $10 to $15 million a year in naming rights according to sports marketing experts.  Perhaps this could be another source of funding towards the construction costs?

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2022/10/20/nfl-tennessee-titans-stadium-naming-rights-nissan.html



Some details about the Titans plan to partner with at least 16 community organizations in a proposed "Community Benefits Program."

Groups included in the announcement were Citizens Bank, Project Destined, Nashville Business Incubation Center, Corner to Corner, the Tennessee Kurdish Community Council, Urban League of Middle Tennessee, NAACP, North Nashville Community Economic Development Consortium, William Franklin Buchanan Community Development Corporation, The Cheatcode Foundation, Office of the Metropolitan Trustee, Tennessee State University, Metro Nashville Public Schools, Meharry Medical College, Vanderbilt University and Don Hardin Group.  
Some of the initial promises:

• $18/hour minimum wage for employees
• $2 million fund managed by Citizens Banks for loans and grants to minority-owned businesses
• $5 million fund for affordable housing through community development corporations
• Training for health care and community workers for programs in ZIP codes 37218, 37208, 37209, 37216 and 37206
• Support for expansion of girls flag football into Metro Nashville Public Schools
• Sponsorship of the John Merritt Classic at TSU

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here;

https://www.nashvillepost.com/sports/sports_business/titans-detail-proposed-community-benefits/article_5c665894-50ac-11ed-b169-1fc42827a68b.html

[Melrose]

13 minutes ago, markhollin said:

If new Titans Stadium is built, the current  naming rights deal with Nissan ($5 million annually) will no longer apply, and it will become open for new bids.  A new facility might fetch in the $10 to $15 million a year in naming rights according to sports marketing experts.  Perhaps this could be another source of funding towards the construction costs?

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2022/10/20/nfl-tennessee-titans-stadium-naming-rights-nissan.html



Some details about the Titans plan to partner with at least 16 community organizations in a proposed "Community Benefits Program."

Groups included in the announcement were Citizens Bank, Project Destined, Nashville Business Incubation Center, Corner to Corner, the Tennessee Kurdish Community Council, Urban League of Middle Tennessee, NAACP, North Nashville Community Economic Development Consortium, William Franklin Buchanan Community Development Corporation, The Cheatcode Foundation, Office of the Metropolitan Trustee, Tennessee State University, Metro Nashville Public Schools, Meharry Medical College, Vanderbilt University and Don Hardin Group.  
Some of the initial promises:

• $18/hour minimum wage for employees
• $2 million fund managed by Citizens Banks for loans and grants to minority-owned businesses
• $5 million fund for affordable housing through community development corporations
• Training for health care and community workers for programs in ZIP codes 37218, 37208, 37209, 37216 and 37206
• Support for expansion of girls flag football into Metro Nashville Public Schools
• Sponsorship of the John Merritt Classic at TSU

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here;

https://www.nashvillepost.com/sports/sports_business/titans-detail-proposed-community-benefits/article_5c665894-50ac-11ed-b169-1fc42827a68b.html

Release these “Agreements” or else they are not real. 

[bigeasy]

On 10/17/2022 at 3:23 PM, MLBrumby said:

Thank you! Whatever your point is. What about the retractible roof and cheaper cost, actually it was a third of that at $720 M ($867 M in 2020 dollars) do you not understand? 

I feel like it was pretty obvious what his point was. Also, there have been 7 new stadiums since and at an average cost of $1.96B (The last 3 averaging out at $2.8B)  For better or worse, the stadium game has changed over the last 15 years. 

On 10/18/2022 at 8:57 AM, smeagolsfree said:

Unless they have new guild lines from the NFL the stadium is not big enough to host a Super Bowl. Everything I have read is 70k seats, 3 golf courses, 35 k parking spaces around the stadium for use just to name a few.

Soldier Field is 61,500 and if the Titans go to 55K this is an embarrassment for the city and the Titans. I say let em move to hell.

I would bet that if the Titans build a new domed stadium that there would be some sort of agreement with the NFL for a super bowl within 2-3 years. The last 5 were all in new stadiums and so will 2024. The one for this season will be a rare exception.  They had never had one in an outdoor cold weather climate until Metlife was built.

[glamdring269]

18 hours ago, Melrose said:

The boosters of Final Fours and Super Bowls and College Football  Playoffs ( which by the way will absolutely suck for almost everyone who lives here because we have no transit and subpar infrastructure) act like this Nashville stadium will be the last new stadium ever built.  Nashville will likely get at most one of each of these events,  it will never be in the regular rotation with the real destination cities and then other secondary cities will fall for the same stadium  scams and build newer stadiums to get their one coveted Super Bowl and Nashville will be at the back of the line again at best. Then in 15 years we will hear about all of the new bells and whistles that Nashville’s stadium just doesn’t have, but maybe if we fund some upgrades, we will be back in the game. 

 Rinse and repeat…..

New stadiums will be built. Most don't have the most powerful factor in Nashville's favor... The proximity to lower Broadway alone is sufficient to keep Nashville in constant contention for all of these events.

[go_outside]

1 hour ago, markhollin said:

If new Titans Stadium is built, the current  naming rights deal with Nissan ($5 million annually) will no longer apply, and it will become open for new bids.  A new facility might fetch in the $10 to $15 million a year in naming rights according to sports marketing experts.  Perhaps this could be another source of funding towards the construction costs?

As always, thanks for the information, Mark!

Understandably this is a controversial project. A tremendous amount of public money will be spent on this stadium, and it's fair for any Tennessee taxpayer to question whether the ROI will be justify that spend.

Some members of this forum think the spend is justified, especially in light of preexisting obligations.  Others think not. 

I hope that this forum—unlike most others—can rise the occasion and debate this project thoughtfully, engaging opposing views in good faith rather than insincere strawmanning. There's enough bluster on the internet; let's have an intelligent debate instead.