New Titans Stadium (60,000 capacity dome, ground level retail, directly east of Nissan Stadium)

[lmc123]

8 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

All good points B2N , just one question. How many public hearings will actually need to take place? The Sports Authority already owns the land , the new stadium is already a use permitted under zoning so why do they really need any approvals?

It will likely have to go before metro council to bond out the construction

[smeagolsfree]

SUN will not have as much power as this is in Brett's districts and not Sean's, so there will be no CBA IMO! It would be brought in front of council regardless of what SUN wants or does not want.

[downtownresident]

5 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

SUN will not have as much power as this is in Brett's districts and not Sean's, so there will be no CBA IMO! It would be brought in front of council regardless of what SUN wants or does not want.

They may need a CBA to pass the wider Metro Council. 

[Nash_12South]

Hopefully preliminary designs are underway, but just completing construction drawings could easily take 6-12 months if not longer. Meetings will need to be held to determine utilities, truck entries, traffic patterns etc. with various metro departments. There will be no doubt early release packages for site work, foundations and steel, but they all will rely on some level of the design being completed and approved. 

[WebberThomas4]

2 hours ago, Nash_12South said:

Hopefully preliminary designs are underway, but just completing construction drawings could easily take 6-12 months if not longer. Meetings will need to be held to determine utilities, truck entries, traffic patterns etc. with various metro departments. There will be no doubt early release packages for site work, foundations and steel, but they all will rely on some level of the design being completed and approved. 

Preliminary drawings are underway and have been for a couple of months. 

[Bos2Nash]

On 4/2/2022 at 8:19 PM, WebberThomas4 said:

Preliminary drawings are underway and have been for a couple of months. 

Thanks for that info. Preliminary Drawings for this project can take several months to prepare and that is what would be presented at public meetings and the such. I would say 8 to 12 months for final CDs (which could and most likely would) released in several packages to get the project under construction. I mean the site remediation alone would take awhile.

My guess on ground breaking would be maybe Q3 of next year.

[Baronakim]

On 4/1/2022 at 11:03 PM, Bos2Nash said:

This area below is approximately 147 acres. I could see some pockets being left out for public space or something along those lines. I did not include the gas tanks because those are not going anywhere anytime soon, so it would be silly to include in such a district. Same goes for PSC Metals.

@Luvemtall, it is entirely possible that the Adams family already working with Populous on a new design and being tight lipped on it. Populous designed Nissan and is arguably the most prolific stadium designer in the world, so it would be a safe bet they get the design job. There is NO WAY this thing breaks ground this year though because there is probably going to be about 12 months worth of public hearings alone for it. I for one will stand up and vehemently disagree with locating the stadium on the eastern parking lots because of how the stadium will serve as a divider to the neighborhood it is supposedly serving. The non-profit groups - like SUN - will also be very vocal about the new stadium and will demand a CBA probably even stronger than the soccer stadium. Wouldn't shock me if the Titans will have to fork over some money to build affordable housing on the East bank (and not just contribute to the Barnes Fund) somewhere on the Sports Authority property (because they probably cannot afford land of their own).

Highly, highly doubt that would be an accurate assessment. Especially with the amount of money that the host city needs to shell out per NFL guidelines for host cities. After all is said and done, hosting a single SB would probably cover the State's deferral of sales tax revenue. 

I rather doubt that the land across main Street  would have anything to do with total acreage available.  I thought the old truck stop had been sold for a multi use tower project.  Is that dead?  And the old stadium Inn...refurbished rubbish.  

 

[Bos2Nash]

4 minutes ago, Baronakim said:

I rather doubt that the land across main Street  would have anything to do with total acreage available.  I thought the old truck stop had been sold for a multi use tower project.  Is that dead?  And the old stadium Inn...refurbished rubbish.  

Maybe not, but I was just trying to find the magical 130 acres that was referenced in the state budget for the special tax district. Not so much that the land would be dedicated to the stadium, but rather the tax revenue that would otherwise go to the state would go toward maintaining the stadium. 

The RMR project is the truck stop project and I presume they are working with the likes of Kimley Horn on the spine road location. As far as I know it is still moving along (Hastings was the architect and their SP has been approved I believe). 

[nashvylle]

Per Nate Rau of axio, City’s hotel/motel tax being raised 1% to 7% (out of 8% max permitted) to help fund new stadium. 

Pre-pandemic, this accounts to ~$10MM in revenue. Adjusted to today's and future supply, it could account to ~$17-$20MM in annual revenue. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by nashvylle

[Melrose]

1 hour ago, nashvylle said:

Per Nate Rau of axio, City’s hotel/motel tax being raised 1% to 7% (out of 8% max permitted) to help fund new stadium. 

Pre-pandemic, this accounts to ~$10MM in revenue. Adjusted to today's and future supply, it could account to ~$17-$20MM in annual revenue. 

Variable revenue stream.  They can keep adding as many of these as they want (though more on that below),  doesn't change the absolute need for the Titans to guarantee the full Metro debt (state debt too, while we are at it).

The other big issue this highlights is capacity.  This is a great example of committing finite revenue capacity (here, we will be closer to the max hotel tax) to this stadium.   We can all continue to debate whether this is the best choice for this finite revenue,  but we should remember and acknowledge this fact all along the way.  

[samsonh]

51 minutes ago, Melrose said:

Variable revenue stream.  They can keep adding as many of these as they want (though more on that below),  doesn't change the absolute need for the Titans to guarantee the full Metro debt (state debt too, while we are at it).

The other big issue this highlights is capacity.  This is a great example of committing finite revenue capacity (here, we will be closer to the max hotel tax) to this stadium.   We can all continue to debate whether this is the best choice for this finite revenue,  but we should remember and acknowledge this fact all along the way.  

Yeah this is money that won’t be spent on the city itself. The owners are wealthy enough to pay for it themselves, they just don’t want to.

[Rick Dalton]

14 minutes ago, samsonh said:

Yeah this is money that won’t be spent on the city itself. The owners are wealthy enough to pay for it themselves, they just don’t want to.

Frankly, they’re not wealthy enough to do that.

[Luvemtall]

50 minutes ago, Melrose said:

doesn't change the absolute need for the Titans to guarantee the full Metro debt (state debt too, while we are at it).

I’m still wondering why you and others , are so convinced that this is ALL on the Titans. As mentioned before, the Titans are just tenants to a city owned property, and as conversation from city and state officials come forth it appears that it’s more of a wish of government officials to have this new stadium for tourists and bait to lure big corporations to plant their seeds here . I’m not saying that the Titans don’t have anything to gain here, for they sure do. But remember this is a Metro property, they own the land and the building. Would you put your money into renovating your rental , so that the landlord can increase his equity ? 

[Melrose]

2 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

I’m still wondering why you and others , are so convinced that this is ALL on the Titans. As mentioned before, the Titans are just tenants to a city owned property, and as conversation from city and state officials come forth it appears that it’s more of a wish of government officials to have this new stadium for tourists and bait to lure big corporations to plant their seeds here . I’m not saying that the Titans don’t have anything to gain here, for they sure do. But remember this is a Metro property, they own the land and the building. Would you put your money into renovating your rental , so that the landlord can increase his equity ? 

Actually,  my comment says that Titans should guarantee the debt,  which very much presumes that there are both Metro and State bonds issued, so my comment does not state this is "ALL on the Titans".  (Though to be clear I do personally think the Titans should pay for their own stadium renovation themselves (with just Metro chipping in what is required under the current contract)  and Metro should redevelop the  rest of their surrounding land and keep all of the money for Metro.  I recognize this will never happen,  so thus the acknowledgement of the of the reality of the bond financing.)

 What I'm saying is  if there is any shortfall in debt service requirements for the new stadium as a result of these various revenue streams falling short,  the Titans should be 100% on the hook for any such shortfalls.  That is not remotely unreasonable,  but the Titans and their lobbyists are trying like hell to warp the discussion in order to prevent this .  

[titanhog]

12 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

I’m still wondering why you and others , are so convinced that this is ALL on the Titans. As mentioned before, the Titans are just tenants to a city owned property, and as conversation from city and state officials come forth it appears that it’s more of a wish of government officials to have this new stadium for tourists and bait to lure big corporations to plant their seeds here . I’m not saying that the Titans don’t have anything to gain here, for they sure do. But remember this is a Metro property, they own the land and the building. Would you put your money into renovating your rental , so that the landlord can increase his equity ? 

I kinda agree with you.  The further along this goes, it really feels like the city is pushing this as much as the Titans…if not more.

[Bos2Nash]

3 hours ago, nashvylle said:

Per Nate Rau of axio, City’s hotel/motel tax being raised 1% to 7% (out of 8% max permitted) to help fund new stadium. 

Pre-pandemic, this accounts to ~$10MM in revenue. Adjusted to today's and future supply, it could account to ~$17-$20MM in annual revenue. 

Yet when we wanted to raise the hotel tax for the transit referendum that was blasphemous. We can kiss that revenue stream goodbye for any future transit.

11 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

I’m still wondering why you and others , are so convinced that this is ALL on the Titans. As mentioned before, the Titans are just tenants to a city owned property, and as conversation from city and state officials come forth it appears that it’s more of a wish of government officials to have this new stadium for tourists and bait to lure big corporations to plant their seeds here . I’m not saying that the Titans don’t have anything to gain here, for they sure do. But remember this is a Metro property, they own the land and the building. Would you put your money into renovating your rental , so that the landlord can increase his equity ? 

The thing to remember is we have set the precedent of having a professional sports team tenant guarantee the debt service and all the shortfalls (if they occur) along with clauses that hold the team accountable if the team doesn't play there for more than 24 (?) months. The city fronted the bonds on their credit to get the stadium built for a primary tenant and the primary tenant is responsible for ensuring the debt doesn't cause issues for the property owner.

IMHO, the Titans are playing up the fact that the city/state wants the stadium more than them to keep the public off their back. Their goal will be to make it seem like the city/state governments are the bad guys if the money deal goes sideways so not to alienate themselves within their fanbase. They are licking their chops at the idea of getting a new stadium and if it is "the city/state's wishes" to build a new stadium, who are they to say no. Remember, it was the consultants of the Titans that came back and said the renovation costs were going to be twice as much as what they anticipated. It has been the Titans that put the money figures out there that made a new stadium price tag more palatable. 

[titanhog]

9 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

Yet when we wanted to raise the hotel tax for the transit referendum that was blasphemous. We can kiss that revenue stream goodbye for any future transit.

The thing to remember is we have set the precedent of having a professional sports team tenant guarantee the debt service and all the shortfalls (if they occur) along with clauses that hold the team accountable if the team doesn't play there for more than 24 (?) months. The city fronted the bonds on their credit to get the stadium built for a primary tenant and the primary tenant is responsible for ensuring the debt doesn't cause issues for the property owner.

IMHO, the Titans are playing up the fact that the city/state wants the stadium more than them to keep the public off their back. Their goal will be to make it seem like the city/state governments are the bad guys if the money deal goes sideways so not to alienate themselves within their fanbase. They are licking their chops at the idea of getting a new stadium and if it is "the city/state's wishes" to build a new stadium, who are they to say no. Remember, it was the consultants of the Titans that came back and said the renovation costs were going to be twice as much as what they anticipated. It has been the Titans that put the money figures out there that made a new stadium price tag more palatable. 

No doubt the Titans are happy about it.  And yes…licking their chops.  But the city / state are obviously pushing this as well.  It really feels like the city has decided this is what they want…as much as the Titans.  And yes…the big winner in all of this is the Titans.

[Luvemtall]

Well yeah, I don’t know of anyone who wouldn’t like a brand new house, if someone else was paying for it. Of course the Titans are all for it, but IMHO I’m feeling like it’s a 50/50 ( if not more) of a quest by the city and State also. The Titans use it for 9 homes games a year and maybe another 15 days for other events. But the city can use it and rent it out for other events ( concerts,truck pulls.. etc) the whole rest of the year. I’d say it benefits the city more.

[markhollin]

Turns out that it is the STATE, not Metro Government,  that is proposing the 1% increase in hotel/motel tax, raising it from 6% to 7% in Nashville.

More at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2022/04/13/state-considers-new-funding-source-for-tennessee.html


And the Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/davidson/2022/04/13/tennessee-titans-stadium-officials-pursuing-hotel-tax-increase-partially-fund/7304590001/

[Melrose]

52 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

The Titans use it for 9 homes games a year and maybe another 15 days for other events. But the city can use it and rent it out for other events ( concerts,truck pulls.. etc) the whole rest of the year. I’d say it benefits the city more.

But this is not at all how these things are structured generally.  The Titans currently operate Nissan Stadium pursuant to their lease, right?   That is certainly how the Geodis Park and Bridgestone Arena's leases are structured,  the teams operate the facilities,  with Metro getting some defined, limited use days for themselves, and in some cases revenue sharing.  This is why Sean Henry with the Preds is consistently interviewed about how they have made Bridgestone such a busy facility.   

If we want to just treat the Titans  as effectively an event promoter renting the stadium for their games,  and Metro runs it  and keeps all the money the other 350 days a year,  super. But that is definitely not what is happening,  and the Titan would never agree to that,  so no, the city does not "benefit more."  

[Bos2Nash]

Just now, titanhog said:

No doubt the Titans are happy about it.  And yes…licking their chops.  But the city / state are obviously pushing this as well.  It really feels like the city has decided this is what they want…as much as the Titans.  And yes…the big winner in all of this is the Titans.

True, it does appear the decision has been made. The Titans have done a phenomenal job framing that the current stadium is derelict and shouldn't be invested in. They are showing that for just roughly $600 million more, they could get a new stadium - one that could host a super bowl and other events - and played to the "economic development" focused folks within the city/state. I'm not saying it is a bad thing, but thinking that the city/state was not setup with some great bait to look at a new stadium is a bit oblivious. 

2 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

Well yeah, I don’t know of anyone who wouldn’t like a brand new house, if someone else was paying for it. Of course the Titans are all for it, but IMHO I’m feeling like it’s a 50/50 ( if not more) of a quest by the city and State also. The Titans use it for 9 homes games a year and maybe another 15 days for other events. But the city can use it and rent it out for other events ( concerts,truck pulls.. etc) the whole rest of the year. I’d say it benefits the city more.

Sure, the city can rent it out. But the revenue streams will be benefiting the Titans. The Titans will have final say over all scheduling of events. The Titans will ultimately have full control over the stadium for 30 years and the city will reap similar benefits we do from the soccer stadium.  One could argue what some of us have echoed multiple times, the Titans are benefitting more from being in downtown Nashville, than Nashville is benefitting from the Titans.

[samsonh]

2 hours ago, natethegreat said:

Frankly, they’re not wealthy enough to do that.

They can get low cost loans from the NFL, and loans from elsewhere to fund it if they wish. The team is extremely valuable and cash flow is immense. They are certainly able to acquire the funds, 100%. 

[Rick Dalton]

1 hour ago, samsonh said:

They can get low cost loans from the NFL, and loans from elsewhere to fund it if they wish. The team is extremely valuable and cash flow is immense. They are certainly able to acquire the funds, 100%. 

Their leverage ratio would be extremely high if they funded the entire $2b+ stadium. It’s not my goal to shill for billionaires, but I simply don’t think they have the capacity to do it.

[titanhog]

Little bit of an update in The Tennessean.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/davidson/2022/04/15/new-nashville-nfl-stadium-could-exceed-2-b-and-ready-2026/7317699001/

A new enclosed stadium for the Tennessee Titans could cost between $1.9 billion to $2.2 billion and could be ready in time for the 2026 NFL season, according to newly obtained projections.

The latest preliminary estimates come from team and state finance department documents obtained by The Tennessean. These documents reveal the first official estimates of the cost, timeline and potential revenue of the proposed new enclosed Titans stadium.  

The team estimates a 1.7 million-square-foot enclosed stadium will take 31 months to build.

Meanwhile, the Titans are projecting new development of a neighborhood surrounding the stadium could cost $4 billion in a series of public-private investments, according to the documents. 

The state is projecting it will cost $710 million over 20 years to finance Gov. Bill Lee's proposed $500 million bond contribution to the project. The bonds have yet to be approved by state lawmakers, who are expected to vote on the state budget later this month.

The state is projecting four sources of revenue to pay off the $500 million in bonds:

• Taxes collected from construction of the stadium over 31 months: $85 million 
• Sales taxes collected from 10 NFL games and 28 non-football events per year over 30 years: $235,639,931
• Taxes collected from construction of campus neighborhood developments over 10-15 years: $182 million
• 3.75% of sales tax collected from surrounding campus neighborhood development over the next 30 years: $414,843,750 

[Rick Dalton]

Where does that rendering come from?