Electric Vehicles

[wilmore]

On 2/25/2022 at 8:55 AM, SouthEndCLT811 said:

For those with EV's how do you cope with longer road trips?  Any examples through WV?  I'm a novice in my understanding but this thread partially inspired me to look into it a bit more legitimately.  One drawback of going EV that I see is say I were interested in a Rivian R1S with 316 mile range.. Traveling to see family in Ohio we seem to have a "dead zone" of Level 3 chargers in WV.  So I feel like I'd love to get into the EV world but any time we'd travel north we may have to pull off for an hour or two to recharge somewhere between Charleston, WV and Parkersburg?  It just makes a long trip even longer.  Again maybe it's my misunderstanding on the speed of chargers and how long we'd really have to pull off at a Level 2 to recharge.  So any example would be helpful!

I'm just at the point on paying off a Jeep where I could either jump in to the EV world or say trade in now and maybe get a 4 year loan on another Jeep and reassess the situation at that time.

This is the huge advantage of Tesla at this point compared to all other EVs. There are superchargers in Parkersburg, Charleston, Beckley, Huntington, etc. which make it easy to even go anywhere through WV. 

[davidclt]

I realize auto dealers have a very strong lobby in both Raleigh and Washington but the auto buying and auto dealership experience are both by almost all accounts a miserable, opaque, slug-fest filled with all sorts of schemes to separate the customer form their money (again because incentives are completely out of alignment for auto dealerships). It's time to enable direct-to-consumer sales of vehicles universally. Yeah, yeah, I know but jobs! Cars will still need parts and service, and while I know some make very good money selling cars, I am sure there are higher and better uses for their talents (and not in a learn to code sort of way trotted out by politicians who couldn't discern between C++, Java, or LISP (what a nightmare but the proponents of LIST love it)).

I will also add, it's time for NC to come boldly into the 21^st Century in all aspects of their governance (blue laws, drugs laws, incarceration laws, tax laws, etc.) and abandon the small mind, small place thinking that has permeated our increasingly growing state.

After buying a car direct . . . I would NEVER, ever return to a dealership to procure one. Everything happened electronically, the only paper involved in the transaction was state-required, otherwise everything including funds transfer was seamless and paperless. I was smitten with the entire process.

All this to come to this sad but true story on NC losing out again because of stupid, backwards thinking: Why Amazon-backed automaker Rivian picked Georgia over North Carolina for $5B plant - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

What kept Amazon-backed automaker from putting $5B plant in North Carolina

By Lauren Ohnesorge  –  Senior Staff Writer, Triangle Business Journal

Mar 8, 2022

An electric vehicle maker considered — and then rejected — North Carolina for a $5 billion manufacturing plant, and public records show it likely came down to politics.

Rivian, an Amazon-backed company that in December confirmed plans for a 7,500-job facility near Atlanta, took North Carolina off the site list because a state bill it thought could pass was never brought forward.

While negotiating with the state over potential incentives, records obtained through a Freedom of Information request show Rivian, which is also backed by Ford Motor Co., was in contact with Wake County state Rep. Julie von Haefen on a measure that would allow certain automakers to sell directly to customers rather than through auto dealers — potentially leveling the playing field. Tesla had already negotiated the ability to have six direct sale centers in the state — that state law was passed in 2019. The new bill would have allowed Rivian Automotive Inc. (NASDAQ: RIVN) the same opportunity.

But it never materialized.

Edited March 8, 2022 by davidclt
Fixed parens to balance and added more thoughts. You may thank me later.

[KJHburg]

NC may get its first EV auto plant at a NC Megasite SW of Raleigh in Moncure in Chatham County.

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2022/03/25/vinfast-chatham-county-facility.html

Who you might ask?  this company

https://vinfastauto.us/

and it would be $6 BILLION plus investment 

[DMann]

I think VW.

[SouthEndCLT811]

On 2/25/2022 at 10:37 AM, SouthEndCLT811 said:

Appreciate the feedback!  Yeah I only mentioned Rivian because I have been spoiled by an SUV and didn't really like the look of the  Tesla X.  A friend has a Rivian on preorder and was discussing it with him briefly.  Also part of life but as family/parents get older in Ohio need the space for moving or bringing belongings to Charlotte.

Wish I would have just gotten on board with Rivian when I posted this before the March 1st price increase  

But after doing a few months of occasionally reading up and getting better informed after the chat in this thread, finally jumped on the EV bandwagon and put down the deposit for an R1S.  Figured with the current rate of production I'm looking at 2024 which is totally fine, I'm not in a huge rush.  And I'm not fan boy'ing the brand so I'll see what else comes out from more established manufacturers in the meanwhile since all Rivian deposits are fully refundable anyway.  Just wanted to get my spot in line.

[DMann]

Congrat's and welcome as a future member of the  "I can't believe how wonderful this car is"  Club.

[tozmervo]

In theory we're in line for a VW ID4. Check back with me around 2030 and we might have been able to test drive it by then.

[davidclt]

Circle K has launched their North American fast charging network (DCFC/Level 3 - probably for everyone but Teslas) in the shadow of Charlotte (highlight mine).

Alimentation Couche-Tard opens first North American EV fast charger - Drive Tesla (driveteslacanada.ca)

Quote

The first fast charger was activated Friday at a new prototype Circle K in Rock Hill, South Carolina, according to a press release by the retail convenience store giant.

The Rock Hill EV charger will serve as a pilot and track driver usage and how many EV drivers visit their convenience store while plugged in to the charger. Their findings will help determine how to develop their future EV charging stations in North America.

This is the first of more than 200 planned EV fast chargers to be installed at their stores in Canada and the United States. Rock Hill was chosen because of its location along a fast-growing commuter and travel corridor in a major metropolitan region where EV traffic is expected to expand.

[grodney]

We're ready to buy our first EV, but I haven't been paying attention....so I need help knowing where to start.  We'll be keeping our gas Pilot for longer trips to mountains/beach or beyond.  So really need an EV for once-a-week uptown to work, weekend brewery hopping, going to track meets, short errands around town etc.  Last time I looked, a few years ago, it was Model 3 vs Bolt vs Leaf but now I have no idea.  ID.4 and IONIQ look good.....we don't NEED the bigger vehicle....but the small ones seem like you're not getting much for the money so we'd be willing to spend a little more for more value?  (I hate toz's post earlier about a long wait for ID.4.....frownies....we want to buy soon so I guess that's a consideration as well.)  Any help/opinions/recommendations appreciated.

[SouthEndCLT811]

26 minutes ago, grodney said:

We're ready to buy our first EV, but I haven't been paying attention....so I need help knowing where to start.  We'll be keeping our gas Pilot for longer trips to mountains/beach or beyond.  So really need an EV for once-a-week uptown to work, weekend brewery hopping, going to track meets, short errands around town etc.  Last time I looked, a few years ago, it was Model 3 vs Bolt vs Leaf but now I have no idea.  ID.4 and IONIQ look good.....we don't NEED the bigger vehicle....but the small ones seem like you're not getting much for the money so we'd be willing to spend a little more for more value?  (I hate toz's post earlier about a long wait for ID.4.....frownies....we want to buy soon so I guess that's a consideration as well.)  Any help/opinions/recommendations appreciated.

Simply looking up readily available EV's it looks like Kia EV6, Chevy Bolt EUV, Audi e-tron have inventory or listed as in-transit to Charlotte area dealers.  Maybe a few others for you to investigate and even test drive.  What you described also fits my driving habits as well and I looked into the Hybrid route a bit.  If you're really looking for something electric that you only need for local driving maybe check those out as well?  I opted to do the preorder thing for a full out EV versus the Hybrid but keeping my options open as I'm probably 18-24 months at the earliest from wanting to switch cars.

https://www.kia.com/us/en/inventory/result?year=2022&seriesId=N&zipCode=28201

https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/shopping/inventory/search?cash=60000&dealerId=&downPayment=2500&emi=650&extColor=&intColor=&model=Bolt EUV&packages=&paymentType=CASH&radius=65&searchText=&sortField=distance&sortOrder=ASC&trim=&year=2022&zipCode=28201

 

[DMann]

My wife has a Model 3, her brother has a Volkswagen ID4, and a friend has an IONIC 5.  There is not an unhappy person among them.

[davidclt]

1 hour ago, grodney said:

We're ready to buy our first EV, but I haven't been paying attention....so I need help knowing where to start.  We'll be keeping our gas Pilot for longer trips to mountains/beach or beyond.  So really need an EV for once-a-week uptown to work, weekend brewery hopping, going to track meets, short errands around town etc.  Last time I looked, a few years ago, it was Model 3 vs Bolt vs Leaf but now I have no idea.  ID.4 and IONIQ look good.....we don't NEED the bigger vehicle....but the small ones seem like you're not getting much for the money so we'd be willing to spend a little more for more value?  (I hate toz's post earlier about a long wait for ID.4.....frownies....we want to buy soon so I guess that's a consideration as well.)  Any help/opinions/recommendations appreciated.

I will recommend you check out some of your trips (pick an EV and pick a destination on the following - especially given the cost of gas): https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

You may find your modern EV is more than adequate for mountain trips, beach trips and beyond. You'll find most stops provide a needed reprieve to stretch one's legs and empty one's bladder or fuel up one's own body. All the new EVs are going to be ideal for 90%+ of the driving you routinely do unless you put on lots of road miles daily traveling for work. I am a Tesla Model 3 LR AWD driver and never plan to return to a gas powered car again. After you go electric, everything feels primitive by comparison.  I think the Kia/Hyundai/Genesis offerings are quite compelling of late.

Edited June 2, 2022 by davidclt

[davidclt]

While I know this isn't a political thread, I'm going to put this here. The craven pandering and short-sightedness of some members of the NCGA is breathtaking and frankly sad. I'm sure there are some that think this is a DANDY idea. It leaves me baffled.

Bill aims for ‘equity’ in fueling vehicles for free (carolinajournal.com)

Quote

• House Bill 1049 would force business owners with "free" electric vehicle charging stations to explain how their customers are subsidizing the service.
• The bill also would ban electric vehicle charging stations on state and local government property unless the same locations offer gasoline or diesel fuel at no charge.

Some of our elected leaders really make me angry.

[TGIBridays]

31 minutes ago, davidclt said:

While I know this isn't a political thread, I'm going to put this here. The craven pandering and short-sightedness of some members of the NCGA is breathtaking and frankly sad. I'm sure there are some that think this is a DANDY idea. It leaves me baffled.

Bill aims for ‘equity’ in fueling vehicles for free (carolinajournal.com)

Some of our elected leaders really make me angry.

This is insanity.  What the hell did charging stations do to these people? 

[davidclt]

53 minutes ago, TGIBridays said:

This is insanity.  What the hell did charging stations do to these people? 

This is making things "fair" for those poor fossil fuel users whose use has been subsidized for years to keep prices artificially low to create an illusion of affordability. Since EV users can charge at businesses (which is a marginal cost to the business to bring in disposable income to spend in their shop/hotel/business) at no direct cost to the end user. At the highest General Business rate, it works out to about 37¢ per hour for charging (at most $9/day,  $270/month assuming people are charging 24/7). This is also to punish the big (bad) cities for being for forward thinking. Here's roughly what shows in Plugshare for his district. The cluster at the bottom is New Bern.

• The two Orange dots are the New Bern Tesla Supercharger and a DC Fast Charger from Chargepoint supporting CCS and CHAdeMO (both cost money)
• The remaining green dots are
  • four car dealerships (all no cost)
  • three hospitals/cancer centers (stick it to the sick eh? - more than hospitals in Charlotte provide charging at any cost incidentally) (noo cost)
  • a bed and breakfast and a hotel (no cost)
  • one grocery store and a mini-mart (mini-mart honor system  payment $.15/kwh)

Edited June 8, 2022 by davidclt

[SouthEndCLT811]

Meanwhile the Federal plan for charging stations

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/09/electric-vehicles-biden-charging-stations-every-50-miles/7561566001/

[southslider]

Part of the hesitancy in buying an EV isn't just vehicle range, but also the inconvenience in figuring out which charging station works for which EVs.

Americans want the convenience of charging stations to match the versatility and abundance of gas stations.

Edited June 11, 2022 by southslider

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, southslider said:

Part of the hesitancy in buying an EV isn't just vehicle range, but also the inconvenience in figuring out which charging station works for which EVs.

Americans want the convenience of charging stations to match the versatility and abundance of gas stations.

Yes, a dramatic acceleration in available charging stations is needed ASAP. At my office Uptown, people with EVs are getting to work at 6:30am just to be one of the five lucky people that get one of the garage parking spots with a charging station. It's become a full on battle.... I'm sure they'll be arriving at 6am soon...

[JRCLT]

Everyday driving doesn’t require much mileage especially if people own a single family home where when you go home you can literally plug it up. It’s is the perfect replacement to daily trips. For longer distances use a fuel car but it isn’t everyday that one does long distance road trips. It just makes sense. People will say that EVs aren’t clean. WELL DUH! Doesn’t take a genius to understand anything that anything humans build and us has an impact on the environment no matter what. It is all about reducing that impact and trade offs based on the worst outcomes vs least impactful outcomes. Electric motors are just insanely efficient that explosion chambers. Energy to motion ratio is just much much higher even if the electricity is generated from fossil fuels it takes way less energy per mile. This plan will just make it easier to travel longer distances in EVs, but perhaps there needs to be more charging stations around the cities themselves in public areas and at businesses. (Parking areas in particular).

There should definitely be more charging stations to encourage more people to use EVs as a daily driver (Hah! Unexpected Pun) and also avoid conflicts.

[davidclt]

On 6/8/2022 at 11:45 AM, davidclt said:

While I know this isn't a political thread, I'm going to put this here. The craven pandering and short-sightedness of some members of the NCGA is breathtaking and frankly sad. I'm sure there are some that think this is a DANDY idea. It leaves me baffled.

Bill aims for ‘equity’ in fueling vehicles for free (carolinajournal.com)

Some of our elected leaders really make me angry.

Slate covers this today: Electric cars are facing pushback from North Carolina. (slate.com)

One state wants to stop people from buying one. But can electric vehicles be stopped?

[Windsurfer]

On 6/2/2022 at 8:20 AM, grodney said:

We're ready to buy our first EV, but I haven't been paying attention....so I need help knowing where to start.  We'll be keeping our gas Pilot for longer trips to mountains/beach or beyond.  So really need an EV for once-a-week uptown to work, weekend brewery hopping, going to track meets, short errands around town etc.  Last time I looked, a few years ago, it was Model 3 vs Bolt vs Leaf but now I have no idea.  ID.4 and IONIQ look good.....we don't NEED the bigger vehicle....but the small ones seem like you're not getting much for the money so we'd be willing to spend a little more for more value?  (I hate toz's post earlier about a long wait for ID.4.....frownies....we want to buy soon so I guess that's a consideration as well.)  Any help/opinions/recommendations appreciated.

Did you make the jump?  As I mentioned before, having sold auto parts for over 55 years (born and raised in an auto parts environment), I can't say enough good things about my wife's Leaf.  We're living out of state now, but had it shipped to us. I probably could've driven it across the country with all the charging stations available now. You can see them real time on your display. Even shows reviews by customers.  

If I didn't have hobbies that took all of a Sprinter to store, I'd have one myself. NOTHING goes bad in them.  Her range is 240 miles and I understand now they have Leafs with even more.

 

[grodney]

On 6/17/2022 at 1:15 PM, Windsurfer said:

Did you make the jump?  As I mentioned before, having sold auto parts for over 55 years (born and raised in an auto parts environment), I can't say enough good things about my wife's Leaf.  We're living out of state now, but had it shipped to us. I probably could've driven it across the country with all the charging stations available now. You can see them real time on your display. Even shows reviews by customers.  

If I didn't have hobbies that took all of a Sprinter to store, I'd have one myself. NOTHING goes bad in them.  Her range is 240 miles and I understand now they have Leafs with even more.

 

Haven't done it yet.  Probably maybe going to get it done this summer though, hahaha.  I appreciate the input/opinions!

[steve_o]

I was caught up in range as well.  Really like the Audi e-tron (s version) but the range on a Tesla is nearly double so put in an order for a Model S (before last price increase).  Downside, it "may" be available sometime in late 2022 or sometime 2023.  At 375+ miles, is there really a need to charge at an office?  It takes 20-25 minutes to charge back to 80% at a super charger.  I don't quite understand the overall concern that would push someone into rushing to an office early to get their charge.  

[DMann]

Range anxiety is something that is promoted via Oil Companies.  Look at your driving habits and your daily miles driven.  Figure that into how much range you need.  My wife has a Model 3 Long Range and drives an average of 20 miles a day.  For trips we never are far from a SuperCharger, they are everywhere, but more frequent going to the northeast as opposed to going to the southeast.  But that is changing every day.

[DMann]

Here is an incredible report that might be of help for anyone considering going Electric.

https://www.fuelsinstitute.org/Research/Reports/EV-Consumer-Behavior/EV-Consumer-Behavior-Report.pdf