The Edge | 32-Story Mixed Use + SunRail Station [Proposed/Demo Underway]

[Tim3167]

Maybe we need a Magic rant thread in Coffee House. 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

19 hours ago, Tim3167 said:

Maybe we need a Magic rant thread in Coffee House. 

Please. This is annoying. 

[jgardnerucf]

21 hours ago, Uncommon said:

but do you have any idea what you're talking about?

He does not. Too long to read and respond. Lotsa errors. Anywho.    I'm going to the game, as always. And free beer for season ticket holders. And sunny roof bar for viewing i4.

[F-L-A]

On 4/1/2023 at 5:27 PM, Uncommon said:

Not to be rude, but do you have any idea what you're talking about? Which of these executives  are the ones who should be fired? It's easy to say "fire this person," but who exactly are you suggesting to fire and for what reason exactly?

I'm not the person you're responding to, but let me help you out.

  

Dan DeVos -- Chairman                                                             Alex Martins -- CEO

Edited April 2, 2023 by F-L-A

[Uncommon]

33 minutes ago, F-L-A said:

I'm not the person you're responding to, but let me help you out.

  

Dan DeVos -- Chairman                                                             Alex Martins -- CEO

If this is because people hate the DeVos family due to Amway or politics, then I have nothing to say about that. Hate away as long as you recognize the hate is for off-the-court reasons.

But if you or anyone else thinks these men have a significant say in the moves the Magic make day-to-day, like free agent signings, draft picks, roster construction, starters vs bench players, coaching, and more on-the-court products, then I'll say I HIGHLY disagree, but I'll play ball anyway: Alex Martins was hired as CEO in 2006. Before he was hired, the Magic averaged a mediocre 38 wins the previous 8 seasons. Immediately upon his hiring, they reeled off 52 wins, 59 wins, 59 wins again, and then 52 wins, including 1 Finals berth. If he gets the blame for the Magic failures, does he also get the credit for their immediate success?

[shardoon]

45 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

If this is because people hate the DeVos family due to Amway or politics, then I have nothing to say about that. Hate away as long as you recognize the hate is for off-the-court reasons.

But if you or anyone else thinks these men have a significant say in the moves the Magic make day-to-day, like free agent signings, draft picks, roster construction, starters vs bench players, coaching, and more on-the-court products, then I'll say I HIGHLY disagree, but I'll play ball anyway: Alex Martins was hired as CEO in 2006. Before he was hired, the Magic averaged a mediocre 38 wins the previous 8 seasons. Immediately upon his hiring, they reeled off 52 wins, 59 wins, 59 wins again, and then 52 wins, including 1 Finals berth. If he gets the blame for the Magic failures, does he also get the credit for their immediate success?

The GM is hired by him. Let's just say he has had quite a few wiff's over the past decade on that......

On 4/1/2023 at 5:27 PM, Uncommon said:

Not to be rude, but do you have any idea what you're talking about? Which of these executives  are the ones who should be fired? It's easy to say "fire this person," but who exactly are you suggesting to fire and for what reason exactly?

The one who hired all those crappy GM's over the past generation that caused the Magic to rebuild the rebuilds over and over. It ain't rocket science on the negligence of the executives over the years. 

[Uncommon]

1 hour ago, shardoon said:

The GM is hired by him. Let's just say he has had quite a few wiff's over the past decade on that......

The one who hired all those crappy GM's over the past generation that caused the Magic to rebuild the rebuilds over and over. It ain't rocket science on the negligence of the executives over the years. 

Apparently it is rocket science because "quite a few whiffs" is inaccurate. Since being hired as CEO in 2006, Alex Martins has had one whiff to be exact: GM Rob Hennigan in 2013, who was atrocious and set the franchise back a solid decade with his awful moves. But the current GM, John Hammond, is very well-respected around the league and has done a damn good job cleaning up Hennigan's mess since being hired in 2017. And before Hennigan, Otis Smith was very solid as GM and put together the team that averaged 56 wins from 2007-2012.

[shardoon]

6 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Apparently it is rocket science because "quite a few whiffs" is inaccurate. Since being hired as CEO in 2006, Alex Martins has had one whiff to be exact: GM Rob Hennigan in 2013, who was atrocious and set the franchise back a solid decade with his awful moves. But the current GM, John Hammond, is very well-respected around the league and has done a damn good job cleaning up Hennigan's mess since being hired in 2017. And before Hennigan, Otis Smith was very solid as GM and put together the team that averaged 56 wins from 2007-2012.

I agree about Hammond. However, yes Otis Smith was a whiff. Sure he put together a championship team, but it was built around Dwight Howard. Once there became drama on yhe team, he had no clue how to manage that. He thought he could buy his way out. He made many questionable trades and free agent signings. Sure, the one that sent Howard packing actually wasn't the bad one, but itt was a lot of the other ones. The Gilbert Arenas fiasco was one big one.

Rob Hennington is worth 3 whiffs. He was kept on too long.

Lastly, quite a few questionable coaching hires over the years as well. I get it, Alex Martins is very political in Orlando and maybe you rubbed shoulders with him over the years in the community so you feel the need to be over defensive about him. However, what happened to the franchise over the next generation after the finals appearance was poor management by the executives. 

Bottom line, sure, it looks like the magic have pieces via future draft picks to build along Banchero. However, we shall see if this current executive team can put it together. Until the Magic do more than be a low seed playoff team, something they aren't even yet, then I will call the executive team a failure. I do not celebrate mediocrity.

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by shardoon

[Uncommon]

6 hours ago, shardoon said:

I agree about Hammond. However, yes Otis Smith was a whiff. Sure he put together a championship team, but it was built around Dwight Howard. Once there became drama on yhe team, he had no clue how to manage that. He thought he could buy his way out. He made many questionable trades and free agent signings. Sure, the one that sent Howard packing actually wasn't the bad one, but itt was a lot of the other ones. The Gilbert Arenas fiasco was one big one.

Rob Hennington is worth 3 whiffs. He was kept on too long.

Lastly, quite a few questionable coaching hires over the years as well. I get it, Alex Martins is very political in Orlando and maybe you rubbed shoulders with him over the years in the community so you feel the need to be over defensive about him. However, what happened to the franchise over the next generation after the finals appearance was poor management by the executives. 

Bottom line, sure, it looks like the magic have pieces via future draft picks to build along Banchero. However, we shall see if this current executive team can put it together. Until the Magic do more than be a low seed playoff team, something they aren't even yet, then I will call the executive team a failure. I do not celebrate mediocrity.

 

Truthfully, I don't give a damn about Alex Martins, have never met him, and generally do not know of or care about Amway or the DeVos family allegedly being scummy people. All I care about is effort made and the product on the court and that's how I judge ownership.

I'll give you Otis mishandling the Dwight situation, and the Gilbert Arenas trade was an abomination, but the Magic were struggling a lot before then, Vince Carter was washed, and the Magic had peaked as a team, so I understand why Otis felt a shakeup was necessary, but yeah, it ended up being a disaster. I still give him credit for being the architect (along with Stan Van Gundy) of a team that was the model that all NBA teams eventually followed and continue following today.

Coaching hires is kind of a weak argument. Literally every single franchise cycles through bad coaches until they find a good one, especially bad teams, and even then, it's such a transient and retread position that every franchise will have 3 awful coaches for every 1 decent coach. I don't blame the GM one bit for any bad coaching hire, nor do I think they deserve praise for good coaching hires. It's literally a crapshoot.

Anyway, calling a franchise a failure or success is totally dependent on a variety of factors. GSW are about to be a low seed. You'd call them a failure, ignoring things like last year, injuries, age and experience, future outlook, salary cap, etc? That's not a sustainable way to view whether a team is a success or not. The Magic are the 3rd youngest team in the league, have gobs of money to spend, have almost all of their players under contract for multiple years at reasonable dollars, have 2 top-10 picks next year, have 2 likely future all-stars, and a 29-26 record since a 5-20 start due to a massive amount of injuries.

I don't care what you or anyone says. The future is indeed bright and any naysayers now better keep that same damn energy when the team is winning.

[JFW657]

The way I see it, we live in the age of finger pointing and playing the blame game.

Not that it's anything new, but it's reached new levels. 

Everyone has to have a boogie man to be the target of blame for their perceived victim status on in every area of life.

In sports, fans who are upset because they have been denied what they imagine is the joy of being able to hold their heads up high and feel good about themselves based on having backed a winning team, which would make them feel like winners by association, feel like they've been cheated or wronged and as such, need to put names and faces on those they hold responsible for their frustration and unhappiness, so they can lash out at them and get some feeling of satisfaction or revenge.  

Kinda like having a punching bag or a dartboard with the face of your nemesis on it.  

That's the way I see it anyway. 

I'm glad I stopped following all that sports drama years ago.   

 

[dcluley98]

Can ya'll take this nonsense to an appropriate coffee-house thread? 

[Uncommon]

1 minute ago, dcluley98 said:

Can ya'll take this nonsense to an appropriate coffee-house thread? 

Yes! That was my last comment!

[jrs2]

5 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Can ya'll take this nonsense to an appropriate coffee-house thread? 

i'm really sorry about that

[jrs2]

On 4/2/2023 at 1:30 PM, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Please. This is annoying. 

sorry 'bout that...

[nite owℓ]

I think it's crazy how the City pretty much forced Church Street Plaza to be architecturally unique/pleasing to serve as a Gateway into downtown and yet the adjacent ROWs look a bit rough and uninviting. With the amount of private money being spent redeveloping that corner, I'm still waiting for the City to spruce up that intersection in return:

 

The Longwood ROW has been landscaped with rows of palm trees and oak trees with uplighting at night along the on/off ramps (not shown), they terraced the berms and added accent lighting at night. Something like this would have been more suitable for a "Gateway" entrance IMO.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by nite owℓ

[smileguy]

On 4/11/2023 at 9:34 AM, nite owℓ said:

I think it's crazy how the City pretty much forced Church Street Plaza to be architecturally unique/pleasing to serve as a Gateway into downtown and yet the adjacent ROWs look a bit rough and uninviting. With the amount of private money being spent redeveloping that corner, I'm still waiting for the City to spruce up that intersection in return:

 

The Longwood ROW has been landscaped with rows of palm trees and oak trees with uplighting at night along the on/off ramps (not shown), they terraced the berms and added accent lighting at night. Something like this would have been more suitable for a "Gateway" entrance IMO.

 

 

The two areas do share something in common. They look better at night! 

[jrs2]

On 4/11/2023 at 9:34 AM, nite owℓ said:

I think it's crazy how the City pretty much forced Church Street Plaza to be architecturally unique/pleasing to serve as a Gateway into downtown and yet the adjacent ROWs look a bit rough and uninviting. With the amount of private money being spent redeveloping that corner, I'm still waiting for the City to spruce up that intersection in return:

 

The Longwood ROW has been landscaped with rows of palm trees and oak trees with uplighting at night along the on/off ramps (not shown), they terraced the berms and added accent lighting at night. Something like this would have been more suitable for a "Gateway" entrance IMO.

 

 

wow. night and day.  I think they should have gotten rid of that burm on the south side of the South St overpass in that photo and done that terrace thing like on the 434 overpass.  presently it's a no-man's land of weeds.

[dcluley98]

Going. . .  

Going. . . 

[HankStrong]

That's awesome.

[jrs2]

Pretty soon, the Citrus Center people will only have a 50% view of the No-way Center

[codypet]

Anyone know what that new Sunrail Station is going to look like?

[jrs2]

[dcluley98]

. . . GONE!!!!!!!

 

[orange87]

[Tim3167]

Sorry if this has been stated for sure, but do we have confirmation this will be in the 400 foot club? I think I had seen 400’ exactly thrown around but not sure it felt official.