Richmond Resort & Casino

[I miss RVA]

32 minutes ago, Downtowner said:

So If anyone had to guess how tall do you think the wind creek casino  towers are in height and floor count? Anyone think it’s taller than the pamunkey casino tower?

According to our running spreadsheet here on the forum, Wind Creek would clock in with a pair of 16-story towers, each 208 feet tall. The Pamunkey single-tower hotel would be 27 stories tall, reaching a height of 351 feet, which would land it in the top 10 of tallest buildings in Richmond.

Edited February 25, 2021 by I miss RVA

[Icetera]

17 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

According to our running spreadsheet here on the forum, Wind Creek would clock in with a pair of 16-story towers, each 208 feet tall. The Pamunkey single-tower hotel would be 27 stories tall, reaching a height of 351 feet, which would land it in the top 10 of tallest buildings in Richmond.

This is where it stacks in comparison to all current proposals based on my estimates (Lodging averaging 13' per floor).

[I miss RVA]

Does it strike anyone as odd that the tallest building in the metro area in terms of visual prominence would be in Green City? Why isn't this tower being built downtown or in that stretch of parking lots in "midtown" (Newtowne/Allison/Carver)?

Edited February 25, 2021 by I miss RVA

[Brent114]

I haven’t seen anything that indicates a building in Green City over 400 feet (or anything even remotely close to that).  Perhaps I’ve missed something?  Honestly I haven’t paid too much attention to it because it’s just an idea at this point.  We’re likely to see that surfing park out near Woodlake (lol) before we see anything meaningful at Parham and 95.

That said, why aren’t these hotel proposals taller?  I honestly don’t understand how the entire commonwealth suffers from tall building phobia. 

[rjp212]

I, for one, hate the idea of tall buildings or casinos being built in suburban areas.  Casinos are rarely an economic boom for the neighborhood, nor do they encourage urban development in the surrounding areas if it does not already exists.  They ultimately just become a self contained "sprawl in the sky".     I'm not against gambling or casinos, I just think they need to be integrated in the urban fabric better.

[I miss RVA]

39 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

That said, why aren’t these hotel proposals taller?  I honestly don’t understand how the entire commonwealth suffers from tall building phobia. 

The Richmond area in particular seems to suffer from a rather acute version of this phobia. Seems like the only part of the Commonwealth that doesn't suffer from it so much is NOVA (Yes, I know there are some big buildings in Hampton Roads - but let's put everything into perspective).

[wrldcoupe4]

It’s all economics guys it has nothing to do with being afraid of heights lol. 

[Brent114]

I get that, what I don’t get is how the economics in a place like Mobile allows for a 735 feet tall building whereas NOVA and Tidewater and Richmond, with bigger economies and bigger business centers, can’t break 500.  Tulsa, OKC, Omaha, Des Moines, Louisville, Hartford, Jacksonville, Milwaukee....plenty of cities in the same class or smaller have much taller buildings despite having smaller economies and smaller central business districts. 
Developers certainly seem to be afraid of height in VA. 

[wrldcoupe4]

I hear you. Developers aren't afraid of height here. If the bank won't loan them the money based upon the market data (construction pricing, rents, rent growth, etc), it's not going to happen. Sometimes owner occupants offer the best chance (Devon Tower in OKC... rest of the skyline is similar to ours). Dominion's new tower was extremely expensive for Richmond and would have been that much more had they gone higher. They are probably relieved with their 2 tower approach given the current and near term environments for WFH initiatives. Costar is a good opportunity for something high quality but not sure about the height in that location.

[eandslee]

1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

I get that, what I don’t get is how the economics in a place like Mobile allows for a 735 feet tall building whereas NOVA and Tidewater and Richmond, with bigger economies and bigger business centers, can’t break 500.  Tulsa, OKC, Omaha, Des Moines, Louisville, Hartford, Jacksonville, Milwaukee....plenty of cities in the same class or smaller have much taller buildings despite having smaller economies and smaller central business districts. 
Developers certainly seem to be afraid of height in VA. 

I had already drafted the response below when I saw Coupe's response, but I'll post my thoughts anyway (since I had already typed it out).

 

Came here to say that Brent has some good points.  I also know that it is mostly economics, but developers/businesses/corporations or whoever is building buildings downtown need to have some vision.  I know that it costs more to build taller, but dude - someone should have, and needs, to break the height barrier in Richmond that the Monroe Tower has held for 42 years!!  It's not scientific, but I'd opine that heights of downtown buildings tells me how visionary the city is and how economically robust it is.  While Richmond has become more dense (which shows some economic progress), Richmond receives an "F" from me on visionary design and heights.  Dominion had the opportunity to break the height barrier, but didn't.  They were sooo close though!

[Icetera]

14 hours ago, Brent114 said:

I haven’t seen anything that indicates a building in Green City over 400 feet (or anything even remotely close to that).  Perhaps I’ve missed something?  Honestly I haven’t paid too much attention to it because it’s just an idea at this point.  We’re likely to see that surfing park out near Woodlake (lol) before we see anything meaningful at Parham and 95.

That said, why aren’t these hotel proposals taller?  I honestly don’t understand how the entire commonwealth suffers from tall building phobia. 

That entry is just from the visible floor count in the Green City presentations calculated by average office floorplate height.  My prominence calculation is just building height plus elevation in order to see how buildings stack up in the skyline.  Green City would be too far out to actually be prominent so the number becomes rather meaningless unless other towers develop near it.

In relation to the hotel towers, unless they are in a dense environment there is not much benefit to building tall.  I am surprised the Pamunkey started with a tower as significant as it was and now it may be taller, but the new site is also smaller and narrow which makes sense.  Other than the Pamunkey proposal, I suspect that Cordish's proposal has the best chance of height.  The hotel has potential to draw not just from the casino but also from the surrounding Scott's Addition and the location is centrally located and restricted in land.  My listing of 17 floors is based off of their similar sized Live! Maryland Casino Hotel as information is not yet available for their design but I would hope they go taller.

[rjp212]

Cordish will also most likely want the tower to be visible from 95/64 to draw people in. 

[Hike]

Just throwing in a couple of comments on the proposals.  Was surprised at how many there were, but I guess that makes sense, I assume casino's make $$, so they're safer "bets".  Also, certainly hope it's a selection that's in the city, the outlying locations would be a disappointment, would be happy with the Manchester proximity or Scott's Addition as my wish list for location.

[eandslee]

I was also surprised how many proposals Richmond got.  Heck, we still might not know about all of them yet.  We assume that there are 6 proposals because the submitters of the proposals went public with their plans.  Perhaps there were more that didn't go public (I think the City is supposed to make a formal announcement soon).  Anyway, even with 6 proposals, that's pretty impressive.  How many did Norfolk or any other Virginia localities get?  To me, this just proves that Richmond is an attractive market...for casinos right now, but maybe there's more to the story.  Maybe Richmond is more prominent or attractive to businesses than we think.  Proof will be how many businesses move here the near future.  I'd like to think Richmond has made good strides here in the past decade and has positioned itself better amongst places that businesses would want to relocate to.  We read the accolades all the time in the news, but how seriously can we take those and how much weight do they really carry?  Do they really mean anything?  Do they really sway businesses to move to Richmond?

[blake_p]

The city just posted more information about each proposal here: https://www.rva.gov/economic-development/resort-casino

[rjp212]

8 minutes ago, blake_p said:

The city just posted more information about each proposal here: https://www.rva.gov/economic-development/resort-casino

Finally!  Some layouts and locations.  Cordish is definitely the front runner to me now. 

[Icetera]

12 minutes ago, rjp212 said:

Finally!  Some layouts and locations.  Cordish is definitely the front runner to me now. 

They were up there for me but leveling the Locomotive Factory rather than integrating it may be a deal breaker.  I was hoping for a development that kept BowTie intact.

[Icetera]

Pamunkey may be breaking the 30 floor barrier with this considering the podium height.  Given that they have the second largest total size and largest gaming floor (so far reported), there must be a few floors within the podium.  I am now estimating Cordish has 22 floors, Bally's 21, and Wind Creek with two 24 floor towers.





 

[Richmonopoly]

That Cordish drawing is eye-candy! 

[I miss RVA]

52 minutes ago, Icetera said:

They were up there for me but leveling the Locomotive Factory rather than integrating it may be a deal breaker.  I was hoping for a development that kept BowTie intact.

I am not a preservationist by ANY stretch - but I have to agree, Icetera - I would prefer leaving the Bow Tie old locomotive factory buildings intact. Those are iconic. 

THAT said -I honestly do love this design & can't help but wonder what it might do for economic development in the northern end of Scott's Addition. GORGEOUS hotel tower!!

It's tough - i really want the Pamunkey casino - especially if we're now looking at closer to 30 stories on the hotel tower - and the fact that since it could rise via federal regulations - Richmond could have two casinos (gotta love these loopholes!)... Wind Creek, though, with two hotel towers is very inviting as well. Still - a question would be: if due to this loophole Richmond were to get both the Pamunkey AND one of the other casinos - would it be better to concentrate them on the edges of Manchester (Wind Creek and Pamunkey) - or - to have them separated in two different parts of town? (Cordish in SA, Pamunkey in Manchester) ...

Food for thought.

[Icetera]

11 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

It's tough - i really want the Pamunkey casino - especially if we're now looking at closer to 30 stories on the hotel tower - and the fact that since it could rise via federal regulations - Richmond could have two casinos (gotta love these loopholes!)... Wind Creek, though, with two hotel towers is very inviting as well. Still - a question would be: if due to this loophole Richmond were to get both the Pamunkey AND one of the other casinos - would it be better to concentrate them on the edges of Manchester (Wind Creek and Pamunkey) - or - to have them separated in two different parts of town? (Cordish in SA, Pamunkey in Manchester) ...

Food for thought.

I have been meaning to do the research on what the Federal route entails.  Considering that they are building one in Norfolk, are they even allowed to get special rights for a second?

[DowntownCoruscant]

Two get built, and one gets to play the role of Stony Point Fashion Park.

[I miss RVA]

16 hours ago, Asdfjkl; said:

The one in Norfolk is not officially ‘Indian gaming’ that would require federal approval. That being said, my understanding is that if they are not selected as the Richmond casino operator, going the federal route will still require an agreement with the state, assuming they even pass all of the federal hurdles. It’s certainly a longer process and not a guarantee which is why they opted for the commercial route once it became available. 
 

The Indian Gaming Regulatory Act would be the relevant law for the federal route. And of note, they are the only federally recognized tribe that could operate a casino in Virginia under this law as the others all agreed not to operate casinos as part of their federal recognition. 

Thank you for clarifying this! Really good information. This process is quite the winding road and pretty confusing to try to follow.

[wrldcoupe4]

The field has been narrowed. Remaining finalists are Bally, Cordish, and Urbanone. 

[eandslee]

Just so you know the RTD is reporting that 3 of the 6 casino proposals have been eliminated:

 

Quote

Richmond has narrowed its field of casino resort proposals, eliminating half of the six proposals submitted to the city last month, according to sources familiar with the city's review process.

 

Representatives for the Wind Creek Hospitality, a gaming company owned by the Poarch Band of Creek Indians, and the Pamunkey Indian Tribe confirmed Wednesday afternoon that the city is no longer considering their respective proposals.

A source said the city also eliminated a proposal from Golden Nugget, but representatives for the company have yet to confirm whether the city did so.

Richmond officials have yet to confirm whether the city has eliminated any of the six proposals.

 

The remaining proposals are:

• a partnership between Urban One and Peninsula Pacific Entertainment on property owned by Philip Morris USA in South Richmond;
• The Cordish Companies on the 17-acre property near Scott’s Addition that currently houses the Movieland cinema complex;
• Bally’s, on a 61-acre site in the northeast quadrant at the intersection of Powhite and Chippenham Parkways in South Side

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by eandslee