Wealthy Street Mega Thread

[terra firma]

On 3/14/2022 at 2:53 PM, joeDowntown said:

That's sad. I thought it was a great building in the area and the architecture fit really well with the rest of Wealthy. IIRC, the owner was anti-development /improvement of the area and resisted developers attempts at purchasing the building. It's a loss for the original architecture of the neighborhood.

 

@ Joe, that would have been a great building to re-purpose but sadly our chances are gone.   You are correct about the anti-development sentiment of the owners,  we presented offers, they just didnt seem interested..

  perhaps their stance will soften in time, as this tragedy i'm sure is hurtful to them (hope they had good insurance!) it will be something one of us can explore re-developing eventually  into something appropriate.  It's a nice big site, so an appropriately sized retail-residential 2 or 3 story that gives a good nod to its architectural surroundings could be a great fit here.

While their losses are 'complete', others suffer some inconvenience as our tenants next door (Dime & Regal, Palace Flophouse) are temporarily closed due to roof and other structural damage resulting from the demo crew's inadvertent 'removal' of upper floor brick walls collapsing onto our facility, well after the fire crew was gone.  

 It really sucks for our Tenants,  who were thoughtfully selected originally for these in-fill developments and grew to become ambassadors for the Wealthy Street Business District, important parts of what gives this hip retail  area it's unique flavor and diverse urban vibe.    

eric

[GR_Urbanist]

(201) Fire at Grand Rapids bookbindery ruled arson - YouTube

A big twist in this incident, although their assumption that graffiti that was placed there recently is connected, I think is a weak lead as the area gets LOTS of that all over various buildings and utility boxes. Gangs in GR arent known for arson.

I also doubt other businesses are in danger, as assumed. It really seems like some punk out at 2AM looking to do something to "go viral".

[GRDadof3]

29 minutes ago, GR_Urbanist said:

(201) Fire at Grand Rapids bookbindery ruled arson - YouTube

A big twist in this incident, although their assumption that graffiti that was placed there recently is connected, I think is a weak lead as the area gets LOTS of that all over various buildings and utility boxes. Gangs in GR arent known for arson.

I also doubt other businesses are in danger, as assumed. It really seems like some punk out at 2AM looking to do something to "go viral".

I'm no expert but I believe arson is almost always an inside job. 

[gunnerdouzi]

On 3/18/2022 at 12:33 PM, terra firma said:

@ Joe, that would have been a great building to re-purpose but sadly our chances are gone.   You are correct about the anti-development sentiment of the owners,  we presented offers, they just didnt seem interested..

  perhaps their stance will soften in time, as this tragedy i'm sure is hurtful to them (hope they had good insurance!) it will be something one of us can explore re-developing eventually  into something appropriate.  It's a nice big site, so an appropriately sized retail-residential 2 or 3 story that gives a good nod to its architectural surroundings could be a great fit here.

While their losses are 'complete', others suffer some inconvenience as our tenants next door (Dime & Regal, Palace Flophouse) are temporarily closed due to roof and other structural damage resulting from the demo crew's inadvertent 'removal' of upper floor brick walls collapsing onto our facility, well after the fire crew was gone.  

 It really sucks for our Tenants,  who were thoughtfully selected originally for these in-fill developments and grew to become ambassadors for the Wealthy Street Business District, important parts of what gives this hip retail  area it's unique flavor and diverse urban vibe.    

eric

Sorry to hear about your building and the impact to these wonderful businesses nextdoor.  I wish them a speedy reopening!

I hope the large size of this empty site leaves possibility for something amazing to be developed here... grocery store focused around local/fresh produce perhaps?  Something to offer a bit of night life such as a barcade?  I hope it doesnt remain demolished pile of rubble for long.  Such a great location with tons of potential.  

18 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

I'm no expert but I believe arson is almost always an inside job. 

Was the Wild Bunch fire also ruled arson?  Pretty amazing the similarities between these two fires within a 4 year span.  Elk brewing is the only business in between the two fires.

[joeDowntown]

32 minutes ago, gunnerdouzi said:

Sorry to hear about your building and the impact to these wonderful businesses nextdoor.  I wish them a speedy reopening!

I hope the large size of this empty site leaves possibility for something amazing to be developed here... grocery store focused around local/fresh produce perhaps?  Something to offer a bit of night life such as a barcade?  I hope it doesnt remain demolished pile of rubble for long.  Such a great location with tons of potential.  

Was the Wild Bunch fire also ruled arson?  Pretty amazing the similarities between these two fires within a 4 year span.  Elk brewing is the only business in between the two fires.

I think the wild bunch wasn't arson. It was determined to be radiant heat from electrical equipment...

Joe

[Cookin_peacocks]

19 hours ago, gunnerdouzi said:

Sorry to hear about your building and the impact to these wonderful businesses nextdoor.  I wish them a speedy reopening!

I hope the large size of this empty site leaves possibility for something amazing to be developed here... grocery store focused around local/fresh produce perhaps?  Something to offer a bit of night life such as a barcade?  I hope it doesnt remain demolished pile of rubble for long.  Such a great location with tons of potential.  

Was the Wild Bunch fire also ruled arson?  Pretty amazing the similarities between these two fires within a 4 year span.  Elk brewing is the only business in between the two fires.

I know if wouldn't really fit the area, but something mixed use, 5 plus stories there would really add to the area, IMO. 

 

But I'm a height queen when it comes to buildings. I need height!

[MJLO]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:27 PM, GRDadof3 said:

I'm no expert but I believe arson is almost always an inside job. 

I could see a scenario where several different parties could have an interest in seeing that structure destroyed.   The Wild Bunch building was by far the biggest eyesore left on that strip from the “malaise era” of  Wealthy St.    After that conveniently burnt down (intentional or not I have no clue),  the Tatum building became the next biggest obstacle for that strip being fully gentrified.   Other business owners probably wanted to see it replaced.  I’m sure several developers offered to pay top dollar for it.  If I understood correctly the owners who stubbornly kept it in the state it was in were/are nearing retirement as well.

That building was fully engulfed. That seems like an awfully efficient and destructive fire to be set by a random graffiti artist obsessed by the “666 Wealthy St” address.  I’ve seen the fires typically started by random vandals and they tend to be obviously amateur and get put out pretty quickly.   I’m not saying it couldn’t be a random act,  though if it is,  that “random vandal” sure seemed to know what they were doing. 

[Guest]

I'm going to go with WOOD TV on this one and say it was Satan because the address is 666

[joeDowntown]

20 hours ago, MJLO said:

I could see a scenario where several different parties could have an interest in seeing that structure destroyed.   The Wild Bunch building was by far the biggest eyesore left on that strip from the “malaise era” of  Wealthy St.    After that conveniently burnt down (intentional or not I have no clue),  the Tatum building became the next biggest obstacle for that strip being fully gentrified.   Other business owners probably wanted to see it replaced.  I’m sure several developers offered to pay top dollar for it.  If I understood correctly the owners who stubbornly kept it in the state it was in were/are nearing retirement as well.

That building was fully engulfed. That seems like an awfully efficient and destructive fire to be set by a random graffiti artist obsessed by the “666 Wealthy St” address.  I’ve seen the fires typically started by random vandals and they tend to be obviously amateur and get put out pretty quickly.   I’m not saying it couldn’t be a random act,  though if it is,  that “random vandal” sure seemed to know what they were doing. 

So are you saying that the “pro-gentrification” set hired a professional arsonist to burn down the building? Even though there are other developable properties in the area?

I think guessing who/what motives people had to intentionally burn this building down is not only pointless, it’s a bit reckless. 

Let the investigators do their work. Speculating that it was an inside job without proof is riding a very scary line. 

Heck, most people here can’t seem to be bothered to take the time to google if the Wild Bunch was arson (the answer is no, and it’s quite easy to find articles about the findings). 

speculating on development is fine (it’s what we do), but randomly making stuff up about a criminal investigation is questionable (at best). 

Joe

[MJLO]

43 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

So are you saying that the “pro-gentrification” set hired a professional arsonist to burn down the building? Even though there are other developable properties in the area?

I think guessing who/what motives people had to intentionally burn this building down is not only pointless, it’s a bit reckless. 

Let the investigators do their work. Speculating that it was an inside job without proof is riding a very scary line. 

Heck, most people here can’t seem to be bothered to take the time to google if the Wild Bunch was arson (the answer is no, and it’s quite easy to find articles about the findings). 

speculating on development is fine (it’s what we do), but randomly making stuff up about a criminal investigation is questionable (at best). 

Joe

What on earth in my post triggered you to determine that I was randomly making stuff up about a criminal investigation??  
 

All I said is that I could see a scenario where any number of parties MIGHT have an interest in seeing that corner improved and that it didn’t seem like it could be random. If that is wreckless I apologize for not speaking within a more clear context. 

[GRDadof3]

53 minutes ago, MJLO said:

What on earth in my post triggered you to determine that I was randomly making stuff up about a criminal investigation??  
 

All I said is that I could see a scenario where any number of parties MIGHT have an interest in seeing that corner improved and that it didn’t seem like it could be random. If that is wreckless I apologize for not speaking within a more clear context. 

Nah, 95% of the time arson is for the insurance claim. If you sell a commercial building, you have to pay capital gains tax (unless you live in it as your primary residence). An insurance payout is non taxed, and usually the replacement value of an insurance policy is much higher than market value. 

I'm not saying the Tatum building was a victim of this kind of arson/insurance fraud. I'm just saying it's very common, particularly in larger cities like Chicago. In a previous life I worked for Foremost Insurance in their BASICs division which insured old high risk homes in Ohio and Pennsylvania. Arson was a regular topic of conversation in underwriting those structures. 

Arson is often kids screwing around with flammable shit too. Maybe not intending to burn a building down but certainly to get their gaggles up. 

I really highly doubt the "gentifyers of Wealthy Street" all got together to burn the Tatum down. The chance of that going bad and destroying neighboring properties is pretty high. 

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, MJLO said:

What on earth in my post triggered you to determine that I was randomly making stuff up about a criminal investigation??  
 

All I said is that I could see a scenario where any number of parties MIGHT have an interest in seeing that corner improved and that it didn’t seem like it could be random. If that is wreckless I apologize for not speaking within a more clear context. 

I was actually calling out posts from you and GRDad. Let the investigators do their job. Speculating whether some pro-development zealot with access to an arson for hire, or throwing out a 95% of all arson is an inside job unnecessarily points fingers. You are both moderators. This isn't Facebook. I think we can and should do better. 

I have no inside knowledge of what's going on. Any of the scenarios are possible (or not), but I don't think we're helping the forum by throwing proverbial fuel on the fire. And everyone (media outlets, etc) seem to jump to crazy conclusions whenever anything happens on Wealthy. It's not productive.

Joe

[GRDadof3]

5 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

I was actually calling out posts from you and GRDad. Let the investigators do their job. Speculating whether some pro-development zealot with access to an arson for hire, or throwing out a 95% of all arson is an inside job unnecessarily points fingers. You are both moderators. This isn't Facebook. I think we can and should do better. 

I have no inside knowledge of what's going on. Any of the scenarios are possible (or not), but I don't think we're helping the forum by throwing proverbial fuel on the fire. And everyone (media outlets, etc) seem to jump to crazy conclusions whenever anything happens on Wealthy. It's not productive.

Joe

Let the investigators do their jobs? That's exactly the opposite of what we do on UP lol. No professional fire investigator is going to be swayed by comments on a discussion board like UP. 

 

Investigators have already said it's looking like arson and they are seeking tips. 

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

Let the investigators do their jobs? That's exactly the opposite of what we do on UP lol. No professional fire investigator is going to be swayed by comments on a discussion board like UP. 

 

Investigators have already said it's looking like arson and they are seeking tips. 

My point is to not call it an “inside job” or professional arsonists hired by developers before we know we know what’s up. It’s not only unnecessary, it’s not productive. Let’s move along. 

[cstonesparty]

https://www.woodtv.com/news/gr-amphitheater-plans-one-step-closer-to-reality/
 

interesting part is here: https://www.woodtv.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/51/2022/03/Snapshot-134384-1.pdf

[GRDadof3]

On 3/25/2022 at 10:25 PM, joeDowntown said:

My point is to not call it an “inside job” or professional arsonists hired by developers before we know we know what’s up. It’s not only unnecessary, it’s not productive. Let’s move along. 

Arson is almost always committed by the property owner and/or family members or friends. That's just facts. 

[GRDadof3]

Another one bites the dust. Elk Brewing closing on Wealthy St. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/323539927776691

[GR_Urbanist]

Ugh. That's a nasty blow for the street, and just after the fire too.

Maybe it can become a 2nd location for another brewery like New Holland, Hopcat, or Founders?

Edited April 18, 2022 by GR_Urbanist

[Winston1206]

This one hurts. I spent so many summer weekends on the patio when i lived on Wealthy. Hope something good takes its place 

[joeDowntown]

Unfortunately, I think a lot of craft breweries are going to have a hard time. Tastes are changing. It's unfortunate that Elk has closed both locations, but I don't see that building sitting empty for long.

Joe

[egrguy]

5 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Unfortunately, I think a lot of craft breweries are going to have a hard time. Tastes are changing. It's unfortunate that Elk has closed both locations, but I don't see that building sitting empty for long.

Joe

Just rumor and speculation but I've heard that it wasn't the most well run establishment. So, yes, being a brewery doesn't guarantee automatic success like it seemed to pre covid.

[Cookin_peacocks]

10 hours ago, egrguy said:

Just rumor and speculation but I've heard that it wasn't the most well run establishment. So, yes, being a brewery doesn't guarantee automatic success like it seemed to pre covid.

We used to frequent Elk pretty regularly. One day, they fired all the normal staff. To beer was mediocre, but we really went for the staff. They were AWESOME. once they canned all them and replaced them, my friends and I decided to go elsewhere.

[TheLonesomeHobo]

I can second that I also stopped going when they canned the original staff, this reads a lot like “oh no if it isn’t the consequences of my  actions”.

[Cookin_peacocks]

4 hours ago, TheLonesomeHobo said:

I can second that I also stopped going when they canned the original staff, this reads a lot like “oh no if it isn’t the consequences of my  actions”.

You ever go to trivia on Wednesday? I feel like we've talked about this before

[wingbert]

On 4/19/2022 at 2:23 PM, Cookin_peacocks said:

You ever go to trivia on Wednesday? I feel like we've talked about this before

Serious deja vu vibes here.  Someone check for a reset in the matrix.