Nashville as MLB Expansion/Relocation Market

[MLBrumby]

Anything can happen when you're talking MLB, as there's even been a recent trend in teams moving to suburban areas in order to control/own the development of the surrounding acreage.  I think this is a ploy by the White Sox to get a better rent deal, but they may see the city call their bluff. In which case, they need a backup. I personally think they should move to a growing market. Chicago is shrinking and the southside is in serious decline. It doesn't help that the affluent population of the metro are die-hard Cubs fans. Not knowing that business, I'd guess the prospective new owners would love a "reason" to pack up and leave; but it's telling to me that the Nashville mayor said he hasn't had any discussions with the team. It just doesn't look like a serious threat to me. 

[Flatrock]

24 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

I'd guess the prospective new owners would love a "reason" to pack up and leave; but it's telling to me that the Nashville mayor said he hasn't had any discussions with the team. It just doesn't look like a serious threat to me

Agreed.

[Ramrod]

Just throwing this out there for comments: If the White Sox or the Stars group were to build a major league ballpark here, my thoughts are that the original proposal still has the best location and potential using the location on the river at the pedestrian bridge. The next best is to modify and expand First Horizon Park. Here though is a consideration not yet mentioned I believe. Instead of tearing down Nissan Stadium, why not modify the current stadium structure to retrofit a baseball stadium there. Surely this would cost less even though it would have to be upgraded to correct the issues necessitating the need for new build versus update of the current Nissan stadium. This modification should be funded by the owners interested in bringing a team here and the timetable would allow for work to start after the new stadium is completed for the Titans. Tell me why this could or could not work.

[markhollin]

3 hours ago, Ramrod said:

Just throwing this out there for comments: Instead of tearing down Nissan Stadium, why not modify the current stadium structure to retrofit a baseball stadium there. Surely this would cost less even though it would have to be upgraded to correct the issues necessitating the need for new build versus update of the current Nissan stadium. This modification should be funded by the owners interested in bringing a team here and the timetable would allow for work to start after the new stadium is completed for the Titans. Tell me why this could or could not work.

An admirable idea, but no ownership group would want to take on a challenge like that.  It would be throwing good money against bad.  The concourses are not designed with the flow and view out onto the field that all modern baseball stadiums have.  The upper deck is much too large and distant from the action.  We have also seen the reports where the "bones" of Nissan are deteriorating, and trying to utilize a massive section of it as a build-out point for a totally different use would be akin to putting lipstick on a pig (at best). 

I do believe that the Nissan site would be a terrific location for ballpark, but it would need to be a fresh start.

 

[smeagolsfree]

I posted this on the Charlotte MLB thread in response to KHJBurg:

I am afraid Nashville is being used by the White Sox like Charlotte was with the Brewers to get a new stadium somewhere Chicagoland and it very well may end up in the suburbs.  

"I tend to agree.

Talking to William whom you have talked to Kevin, seems to think we have a better shot at an expansion team rather than a relocation due to the fact that the Nashville Stars have such a strong group behind them. The former governor Bill Haslam has also expressed an interest in joining the group, the brother of Jimmy Haslam owner of the Cleveland Browns. He is another billionaire out of Knoxville ties that owns Flying J truck stops.

There are a lot of other billionaires that are tending to have second or third homes here too. Sometimes we don't even know who is buying some of the condos in the high-rises downtown or renting the apartments. The same goes for Willaimson County as there are a lot of Hollywood types that own second homes there as well. Lots of money floating around the area."

This was also something else I posted in response to the posting of the Sox announcement.

"I was not going to post this when I saw it night before last. The main issue with any team coming to Nashville is this; There will not be any money for a new stadium period as Metro is tapped out as far as spending goes when it comes to high dollar stadiums. A newly completed Soccer Stadium and now a new NFL stadium getting ready to start next year has sort of left a bad taste in the mouths of voters. So, if a team wants a new stadium here, they will have to build it themselves with creative financing.

Areana football is making a return, and they will have to play in an existing facility and talk of WNBA coming too will have to play in either the Bridgestone or Municipal Arena. I for one just do not know how Nashville can support all of the pro Sports teams."

I do not go in and antagonize our friends in Charlotte number one and I realize the chances of a relocation of a team are very slim. These owners are going to come in here want the dark side of the moon. They will want the same thing from Metro that they wanted from the city they are leaving. We have plenty of money right here in Nashville that can put up or shut up ready to finance! 

We have to be realist as far as any new pro sports teams go here. 

 

[nashvylle]

21 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

Maybe it would be time for any perspective ballpark and/ or entertainment complex , to look into the options that other counties might have to offer. Metro isn’t the only choice they have, Wilson is only a stones throw away from BNA . And Rutherford isn’t out of contention having the second largest city in the MSA and growing at a good pace. 

The Atlanta Braves don’t play in city or county limits, it’s not a requirement 

Atlanta is a very different city from Nashville. Atlanta moved its stadium to be near 90% of their season ticket holders, while Nashville would need tourists to fill up the stadium (like Las Vegas). Has to be within the downtown area, and TSU wouldn't be ideal but would work compared to Wilson, Williamson, or Rutherford County. 

As for First Horizon, the only way I think it could work is if The Sounds were bought out, the stadium was torn down, and State of Tennessee deeded the land containing the service center and the new stadium was built on that land and over 5th Ave / John L Lewis Way. 

See crude image below of Target Field (Twins) over the area I am referring. 

[Baronakim]

25 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

Atlanta is a very different city from Nashville. Atlanta moved its stadium to be near 90% of their season ticket holders, while Nashville would need tourists to fill up the stadium (like Las Vegas). Has to be within the downtown area, and TSU wouldn't be ideal but would work compared to Wilson, Williamson, or Rutherford County. 

As for First Horizon, the only way I think it could work is if The Sounds were bought out, the stadium was torn down, and State of Tennessee deeded the land containing the service center and the new stadium was built on that land and over 5th Ave / John L Lewis Way. 

See crude image below of Target Field (Twins) over the area I am referring. 

Absolutely in no way is the state going to give up a square inch of land on Bicentennial Mall for a stadium.  The land use is for institutional purposes like museums and art functions like theatre and ballet.  A commercial venture like this would violate the purpose of the mall.  You might as well expect D.C. to tear down the Smithsonian for their sports fans.  Not gonna happen.

 

[Luvemtall]

It seems like someone or something has brainwashed the people/ natives of Nashville into believing that Atlanta is somehow a mythical fairyland and that there’s no way that Nashville could ever become a peer to it. STOP BELIEVING IN THIS THEORY, I’m tired of always hearing about Atlanta being a different place than here , all cities are different in some ways or another. Start thinking outside the box , outside the suppressed narrative of Nashville not being this or that and not good enough for certain things. At one point not that long ago, cities like Atlanta and Austin were not that impressive, but they started thinking and believing outside of that box and found ways to become bigger and better. Nashville has the same chances and pathways to that success, if everyone can change their mindset and start thinking like a major league player. And yes it is very conceivable that some projects such as MLB ballparks, Theme Parks, NASCAR Tracks and the Big office deals could decide to develop outside of Metro limits. How do you think that Atlanta and Houston etc got to be so successful 

[Tim29tn]

21 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

It seems like someone or something has brainwashed the people/ natives of Nashville into believing that Atlanta is somehow a mythical fairyland and that there’s no way that Nashville could ever become a peer to it. STOP BELIEVING IN THIS THEORY, I’m tired of always hearing about Atlanta being a different place than here , all cities are different in some ways or another. Start thinking outside the box , outside the suppressed narrative of Nashville not being this or that and not good enough for certain things. At one point not that long ago, cities like Atlanta and Austin were not that impressive, but they started thinking and believing outside of that box and found ways to become bigger and better. Nashville has the same chances and pathways to that success, if everyone can change their mindset and start thinking like a major league player. And yes it is very conceivable that some projects such as MLB ballparks, Theme Parks, NASCAR Tracks and the Big office deals could decide to develop outside of Metro limits. How do you think that Atlanta and Houston etc got to be so successful 

Spot on. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Tim29tn

[nashvylle]

2 hours ago, Baronakim said:

Absolutely in no way is the state going to give up a square inch of land on Bicentennial Mall for a stadium.  The land use is for institutional purposes like museums and art functions like theatre and ballet.  A commercial venture like this would violate the purpose of the mall.  You might as well expect D.C. to tear down the Smithsonian for their sports fans.  Not gonna happen.

 

I agree. But I'm not proposing anything but built on Bicentennial Mall. Don't be fooled by my poor photoshop skills. 6th Ave N would remain and the stadium wouldn't cross it coming into the mall's territory. 

[Baronakim]

53 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

I agree. But I'm not proposing anything but built on Bicentennial Mall. Don't be fooled by my poor photoshop skills. 6th Ave N would remain and the stadium wouldn't cross it coming into the mall's territory. 

Your stadium location IS on Bicentenial Mall.  The entire blocks of land flanking the physical Mall ARE designated as part of it for future state developments.  You misunderstand that the Bicentennial Mall is more than just the central landscaped core.  No commercial venture like a MLB stadium should EVER be considered to be located on it; it should remain noncommercial public functions owned by the State of Tennessee only.  It is not a condidate for commecial development.   Either look closer at rebuilding Horizon Park of\r suggest another location please.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Baronakim

[MLBrumby]

I must have misinterpreted the photo as comparing sizes of the parks (I had assumed the scale was identical between the Target Field and First Horizon Field) to show it's possible to enlarge the latter on the same plot. Just my takeaway.  

[KJHburg]

I absolutely believe that one day both NC  and Nashville will have MLB teams but unless both markets get an owner who will build a stadium themselves I just don't see it happening right now.   Our city possibly could contribute some land but we have a competing NC bid already that being Raleigh.   MLB Raleigh – A movement to bring Major League Baseball to Raleigh, NC here is Charlotte's grassroot efforts  Lets Bring MLB To Charlotte - Home (charlottebats.com)

I know Nashville has such a group too but unless someone else bankrolls it right now.  But who knows stranger things have happened.  

Edited August 26, 2023 by KJHburg

[henburg]

9 hours ago, Baronakim said:

Absolutely in no way is the state going to give up a square inch of land on Bicentennial Mall for a stadium.  The land use is for institutional purposes like museums and art functions like theatre and ballet.  A commercial venture like this would violate the purpose of the mall.  You might as well expect D.C. to tear down the Smithsonian for their sports fans.  Not gonna happen.

 

You're probably right, but it's not as if the Mall has fully lived up to this vision in its current state. Nearly half of the immediate property surrounding it is dedicated to surface parking and the Tennessee Capitol Complex Service Center, which is an incredibly uninviting building. The State has only recently begun showing interest in it. On the other hand, baseball has a huge history in that area and I'd argue that it would be a much better use to help complete the vision for that area than what currently sits there. I think that a park connecting the State Capitol, State Museum, City Farmer's Market, State Library, and an MLB Park would be oddly cohesive and instantly become an awesome neighborhood specifically for locals, which Nashville could definitely use. 

[Baronakim]

6 hours ago, Baronakim said:

Your stadium location IS on Bicentenial Mall.  The entire blocks of land flanking the physical Mall ARE designated as part of it for future state developments.  You misunderstand that the Bicentennial Mall is more than just the central landscaped core.  No commercial venture like a MLB stadium should EVER be considered to be located on it; it should remain noncommercial public functions owned by the State of Tennessee only.  It is not a condidate for commecial development.   Either look closer at rebuilding Horizon Park of\r suggest another location please.

What is so confusing y'all about not placing commercial sports entity on land that is reserved for State cultural purposes?  At any rate, the photoshopped stadium would never fit on that site anyway as it was reduced in scale from the real size a ballfield stadium  requires, so the issue is moot.

[Baronakim]

12 hours ago, henburg said:

You're probably right, but it's not as if the Mall has fully lived up to this vision in its current state. Nearly half of the immediate property surrounding it is dedicated to surface parking and the Tennessee Capitol Complex Service Center, which is an incredibly uninviting building. The State has only recently begun showing interest in it. On the other hand, baseball has a huge history in that area and I'd argue that it would be a much better use to help complete the vision for that area than what currently sits there. I think that a park connecting the State Capitol, State Museum, City Farmer's Market, State Library, and an MLB Park would be oddly cohesive and instantly become an awesome neighborhood specifically for locals, which Nashville could definitely use. 

I disagree completely.  I think the relatively new State Museum and Archives facilities are excellent.  I also think the Tennessee Capitol Complex Service Center will eventually go away in favor of more elegant cultural developments, particularly since there is a massive rejuvination of the surrounding neighborhoods with new works.   They did not hesitate to demolish half of the Farmers Market for the new museum, so IMO the rest of the  market too will eventually go away.  Bicentennial Mall is not a commercial project like Nashville Yards as much as many on this forum are impatient to see a full build out.  My own druthers would be to see TPAC rebuilt here instead of across the river with the new Stadium, not just theatre, but pehaps opera and ballet as well combing the performing arts in one facility.  Fortunately the city and Belmont have built magnificent halls, so the state really would not need to build another orcestral hall.   The deveopment  and ultimate buildout of the Mall is not just a 20 year or so project, it may take more decades. Keep in mind that once a new facility is built displacing our future needs, the site is no longer available for more appropriate use.  For our state culturally, it should be viewed more like the National Mall in D.C., but embodying the best of our state.  Why not consider the huge state parking lots beneath the Capitol instead if a MLB stadium really must go in this area?  Certainly it would be totally in keeping with the so called height restictions I always hear about and the underground parking would certaily fill all the needs of the parking for state employees couldn't it? Better access, more land; why not there gang?

Edited August 26, 2023 by Baronakim

[bnacincy]

If the Stars get an MLB franchise and build a ballpark on the East Bank the old Sounds park should be torn down and the Farmers Market should be relocated there.

I would like it to be called the Tennessee Farmers market so all of Tennessee could be represented with food from each Grand Division along with related restaurants and cafes.

The restaurants there that have more international cuisine could relocate in around the renovated Arcade-would be a perfect location for a global food market!

Also, I think Bankers Alley stretching from 4th Ave to 2nd Ave would be a perfect location for a night  market with vendors serving street food.

Edited August 26, 2023 by bnacincy

[smeagolsfree]

I do think the if the Stars get their team, it will be at the TSU location and the land will be a no charge deal. The stadium will be done by creative financing with the state and the university with some kind of dual-purpose facility. 

I think that will be the location no matter what we want or don't.

 

[nashvylle]

5 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

I do think the if the Stars get their team, it will be at the TSU location and the land will be a no charge deal. The stadium will be done by creative financing with the state and the university with some kind of dual-purpose facility. 

I think that will be the location no matter what we want or don't.

 

The Cumberland River on the west side of town could be fully connected between a MLB complex and eventually all the way to The Nations. Not a terrible situation. 

[Pdt2f]

I’d like to throw my two cents in regarding the several-weeks-old discussion of team name in the event of a relocation. If a team like the White Sox or the Athletics (certainly going to LV) moves here I would 100% be on board with keeping the name of the teams. Both of them are some of the oldest and most storied franchises in MLB and it would be such a slap in the face to baseball fans to get rid of the team names. Plus they both have some of the best looking uniforms and hats in baseball. If it was a team like the Rays I wouldn’t care as much, since they don’t have much history and tbh their uniforms have always been garbage (although I preferred the gaudy Devil Rays unis of the late 90s, early 00’s).  Stars is such a basic and default sports team game, super lame and non-memorable. It’s the name of mediocre 12u travel teams, not an MLB franchise. The original team was only around for a few years in the 1950s and probably 99% of nashvillians have no idea of their existence and don’t care. 
 

Also, I think a relocation or expansion is more likely if the stadium is located outside of downtown. Full-neighborhood deals like that of the Braves are going to be the way things are done in the future and there’s no room downtown and a slice of land at TSU excites nobody. Downtown is appealing to tourists but season ticket holders are where your $ comes from and a lot of them hate going downtown (or at least a lot of titans season ticket holders I talk to do). The neighborhoods around TSU also aren’t inviting for your average baseball fan. Ironically the Braves relocated away from a neighborhood that was similar to those around TSU, and a huge part of it was nobody wanted to go to games in the neighborhood. I used to go down there and get $1 tickets at the gate in the late 00’s because they couldn’t sell tickets. Building in one of the high population counties around Davidson (Wilson, Sumner, Rutherford, Williamson) gives them the land they need and the sense of safety potential fans want. 

[bnacincy]

The Dallas Stars are an NHL hockey team that were originally the Minnesota North Stars (a name chosen by the fans in Minnesota). When they moved to Texas they got rid of the  "North" for obvious reasons but kept the "Stars" name to reflect their new home in the Lone Star State. 

There is no movement I'm aware of to get rid of the name.

The best place for an MLB team for Nashville is the East Bank-any other location would be too far away from downtown-and quite frankly downtown is Nashville's calling card. Nashville is in no way comparable to Atlanta as Nashville is a destination city in ways that Atlanta will never be. Also the East Bank is surrounded by a  growing urban population many of whom have relocated from cities that had their own MLB teams and would be a ready supply of fan support. Not only that, but the East Bank is easily accessible by interstate. MLB has 82 home games a year and I'm sure the city would love to have those folks near downtown spending their money before and after games-so the East Bank would make it easily accessible by walking or a short shuttle bus ride.  In, addition there are no safety issues with regard to the East Bank that I have heard of with regard to the Titans home games. If there were, I doubt that anyone would want to spend 2 billion dollars on a new stadium there.

And this speaks to a larger point about Nashville I want to make. Nashville is rapidly becoming a global destination city-not only that but Nashville's culture-it's music, cuisine and even fashion are spreading all over the world. Nashville is joining the ranks of those few cities like LA, Vegas, Austin, Miami and New York who have a "global fanbase" so to speak. Nashville is not like most other cities and most other cities are not like Nashville and what Nashville does from now on has to reflect that.

So this is why I stand by my assertion that the Nashville Stars is the perfect name for an MLB team-easy to say, easy to remember and evokes images of country music stars dressed to the nines in Rhinestones and other Lower Broadway paraphernalia.

What could be more Nashville than that?

[Pdt2f]

1 hour ago, bnacincy said:

The Dallas Stars are an NHL hockey team that were originally the Minnesota North Stars (a name chosen by the fans in Minnesota). When they moved to Texas they got rid of the  "North" for obvious reasons but kept the "Stars" name to reflect their new home in the Lone Star State. 

There is no movement I'm aware of to get rid of the name.

The best place for an MLB team for Nashville is the East Bank-any other location would be too far away from downtown-and quite frankly downtown is Nashville's calling card. Nashville is in no way comparable to Atlanta as Nashville is a destination city in ways that Atlanta will never be. Also the East Bank is surrounded by a  growing urban population many of whom have relocated from cities that had their own MLB teams and would be a ready supply of fan support. Not only that, but the East Bank is easily accessible by interstate. MLB has 82 home games a year and I'm sure the city would love to have those folks near downtown spending their money before and after games-so the East Bank would make it easily accessible by walking or a short shuttle bus ride.  In, addition there are no safety issues with regard to the East Bank that I have heard of with regard to the Titans home games. If there were, I doubt that anyone would want to spend 2 billion dollars on a new stadium there.

And this speaks to a larger point about Nashville I want to make. Nashville is rapidly becoming a global destination city-not only that but Nashville's culture-it's music, cuisine and even fashion are spreading all over the world. Nashville is joining the ranks of those few cities like LA, Vegas, Austin, Miami and New York who have a "global fanbase" so to speak. Nashville is not like most other cities and most other cities are not like Nashville and what Nashville does from now on has to reflect that.

So this is why I stand by my assertion that the Nashville Stars is the perfect name for an MLB team-easy to say, easy to remember and evokes images of country music stars dressed to the nines in Rhinestones and other Lower Broadway paraphernalia.

What could be more Nashville than that?

All interesting points. Point of order though, Atlanta receives approximately 4x as many tourists as Nashville annually. But I see your point. 

[FrankNash]

^^^I agree with bnacincy if Nashville gets an MLB team the stadium needs to be within walking distance of the entertainment district.  80 home games anywhere else in the city would be difficult to keep full during down seasons.

[PruneTracy]

16 hours ago, bnacincy said:

What could be more Nashville than that?

[Argo]

17 hours ago, bnacincy said:

The Dallas Stars are an NHL hockey team that were originally the Minnesota North Stars (a name chosen by the fans in Minnesota). When they moved to Texas they got rid of the  "North" for obvious reasons but kept the "Stars" name to reflect their new home in the Lone Star State. 

There is no movement I'm aware of to get rid of the name.

The best place for an MLB team for Nashville is the East Bank-any other location would be too far away from downtown-and quite frankly downtown is Nashville's calling card. Nashville is in no way comparable to Atlanta as Nashville is a destination city in ways that Atlanta will never be. Also the East Bank is surrounded by a  growing urban population many of whom have relocated from cities that had their own MLB teams and would be a ready supply of fan support. Not only that, but the East Bank is easily accessible by interstate. MLB has 82 home games a year and I'm sure the city would love to have those folks near downtown spending their money before and after games-so the East Bank would make it easily accessible by walking or a short shuttle bus ride.  In, addition there are no safety issues with regard to the East Bank that I have heard of with regard to the Titans home games. If there were, I doubt that anyone would want to spend 2 billion dollars on a new stadium there.

And this speaks to a larger point about Nashville I want to make. Nashville is rapidly becoming a global destination city-not only that but Nashville's culture-it's music, cuisine and even fashion are spreading all over the world. Nashville is joining the ranks of those few cities like LA, Vegas, Austin, Miami and New York who have a "global fanbase" so to speak. Nashville is not like most other cities and most other cities are not like Nashville and what Nashville does from now on has to reflect that.

So this is why I stand by my assertion that the Nashville Stars is the perfect name for an MLB team-easy to say, easy to remember and evokes images of country music stars dressed to the nines in Rhinestones and other Lower Broadway paraphernalia.

What could be more Nashville than that?

Austin has a global fan base? That's a kicker. It may not even have a national fan base.