Nashville as MLB Expansion/Relocation Market

[Luvemtall]

If ever there’s a Nashville team, IMO it’s going to be an expansion team. And I feel the stadium will be located in a ring county Rutherford or Wilson would be my first guess, Williamson possibly. Only reason is availability , affordability, and accessibility of land. Somewhere along I-840 primarily next to the SuperSpeedway , would be my bet.

[Sean blackdog]

Play Ball? 

[subkyle]

There is a link on the cover of ESPN that discusses MLB expansion. It’s behind a pay wall so I can’t read it, but it seems to have some good info.

 

[PaulChinetti]

I think that’s all the relevant Nashville pieces from the article  

 

FOR ALL OF their differences culturally, spiritually and historically, Nashville, Tennessee, and Salt Lake City share plenty in common. Nashville is the 26th-biggest media market in the United States; Salt Lake City is the 27th. Both regularly rank among the United States' fastest-growing cities. And both have positioned themselves to be at the front of the line when MLB finally decides to expand.

Since the formation of the Music City Baseball groupfive years ago, Nashville's status as the most favorable East Coast expansion opportunity has been treated by owners as almost a fait accompli, sources said. Salt Lake City has emerged as a viable candidate in only the past six months, during which the Big League Utahconsortium has made a distinct-enough impression that Salt Lake City has leapfrogged Portland, Oregon, as the top West Coast opportunity in the minds of multiple ownership-level sources. However long the list of potential expansion candidates -- Charlotte, North Carolina; Portland; San Jose, California; Austin, Texas; Vancouver, British Columbia; and Mexico City were among the locations suggested by sources -- Nashville's and Salt Lake City's reputations as front-runners is in large part due to their preparation and planning.

Nashville satisfies a number of characteristics MLB will seek when it expands, sources said. Because of the partnerships Music City Baseball has forged in the industry, the brand it has built with the Nashville Stars -- originally the name of the city's Negro Leagues team -- and Tennessee's existing baseball fandom demonstrated through sold-out games at Vanderbilt and the University of Tennessee, the group's foundation is solid. Add the city's bustling corporate infrastructure, and on paper, Nashville is a tailor-made option, according to three high-ranking MLB team officials familiar with the expansion process.

"Nashville certainly speaks for itself," said John Loar, the managing director of Music City Baseball. "But for entertainment, sports and music to connect, Nashville provides a unique opportunity. It changes the demographics. We've all seen Taylor Swift's impact on football. And when you add the historical component with the Negro Leagues there, it's a complete package."

Music City Baseball recently contracted the real estate development company Mortenson to undertake a stadium site and market analysis, two integral pieces to any eventual presentation to the league. The final step, sources said, would be to secure a general partner who could help cover an expansion fee that, even adjusted for inflation, is expected to be nearly 10 times what Diamondbacks and Rays ownership paid in 1998.

"We're prepared," Loar said. "We understand the market. We're completing the work. We built a brand. And now we're ready to put an ownership group together. And there will be plenty of interest in this market."

[jmtunafish]

10 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

"Nashville certainly speaks for itself," said John Loar, the managing director of Music City Baseball. "But for entertainment, sports and music to connect, Nashville provides a unique opportunity. It changes the demographics. We've all seen Taylor Swift's impact on football. And when you add the historical component with the Negro Leagues there, it's a complete package."

And that's why a future MLB stadium needs to be downtown or on the East Bank.

[samsonh]

7 minutes ago, jmtunafish said:

And that's why a future MLB stadium needs to be downtown or on the East Bank.

Gladly, if they can pay for it. After the titans debacle there will not be city money for this. So the owners will need to pay for an expansion fee and a stadium. So you are starting at around 4 billion. 

[Luvemtall]

I say this with a LOT of reservations, but I think the only Metro contribution to a MLB stadium would be in the form of Sports Authority Land. Perhaps the parcel that Nissan currently sits , the timing would be on course with a potential expansion of MLB and having Sports Authority oversight and control would be a plus. It would certainly help transform the East Bank plan into reality and create a cohesive environment for family entertainment almost year round with both stadium venues and TPAC the centerpiece of the new neighborhood. 

[PaulChinetti]

Hear me out... the site of the US Smokeless Tobacco building. Capitol as the backdrop, right next to park space, the farmers market, interstate access. 

[Bos2Nash]

5 hours ago, jmtunafish said:

And that's why a future MLB stadium needs to be downtown or on the East Bank.

3 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

I say this with a LOT of reservations, but I think the only Metro contribution to a MLB stadium would be in the form of Sports Authority Land. Perhaps the parcel that Nissan currently sits , the timing would be on course with a potential expansion of MLB and having Sports Authority oversight and control would be a plus. It would certainly help transform the East Bank plan into reality and create a cohesive environment for family entertainment almost year round with both stadium venues and TPAC the centerpiece of the new neighborhood. 

I still whole heartedly disagree with the East Bank location. If nothing else, the parking demands of two stadiums (and what their franchises would demand within their leases) would absolutely obliterate any possibility of creating a creating a cohesive neighborhood. I don't disagree that that it would create a more year round effect for sports, but we would be talking about two massive structures that would sit empty a large part of the year when not in use. Even if the contribution from Metro was just Sports Authority land, the rent payments made by the MLB team would surely not approach the revenue that the planned developments that the stadium would eliminate would bring in.

1 hour ago, PaulChinetti said:

Hear me out... the site of the US Smokeless Tobacco building. Capitol as the backdrop, right next to park space, the farmers market, interstate access. 

This is a different idea than what we have heard previously and I don't hate it. Extend the Greenway from Franklin Pierce Park northwards and then cut it along the outfield to tie into Harrison Street and then on to Bi-Centennial. The outfield area could almost create a Camden Yards kind of effect. It breaks the street grid a little bit, but extend Tredco Drive/Herman Street out to Rosa Parks and re-work the entrance to the Farmers Market and 909 Flats and boom. Then convert the Harrison Street/Rosa Parks intersection to a right-in/right-out intersection with a HAWK signal to provide safe crossing for the Greenway and that would be an excellent addition.

Two major variables/hurdles I see there would be. 1) The land value/cost would be astronomical as US Smokeless knows they would be sitting on a gold mine. I also wonder if there would be any form of environmental cleanup from such a facility. 2) The abutting single family will be a difficult adversary to convince. The land itself sits in the Gulch North district of the DTC, but Tredco Drive/Herman Street is the line between Gulch North and the formidable Hope Gardens subdistrict. The largest complaint the neighborhood would probably have is gameday traffic flowing into the streets. I think any stadium agreement there would have to include getting the whole area hemmed in by I-40/Jefferson/Rosa Parks to become permit only parking to give peace of mind to the residents.

Or going a step further on the permitted parking and expanding the zone westward all the way to DB Todd. This would grab Fisk University (which maybe they carve something out for themselves) so this whole area (established residents) is a bit more protected from the gameday surges that come in. 

[Sean blackdog]

Update……. 

https://fanbuzz.com/mlb/mlb-expansion-cities-nashville-salt-lake-city/
 

 

[Luvemtall]

7 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

I still whole heartedly disagree with the East Bank location. If nothing else, the parking demands of two stadiums (and what their franchises would demand within their leases) would absolutely obliterate any possibility of creating a creating a cohesive neighborhood. I don't disagree that that it would create a more year round effect for sports, but we would be talking about two massive structures that would sit empty a large part of the year when not in use. Even if the contribution from Metro was just Sports Authority land, the rent payments made by the MLB team would surely not approach the revenue that the planned developments that the stadium would eliminate would bring in.

This is a different idea than what we have heard previously and I don't hate it. Extend the Greenway from Franklin Pierce Park northwards and then cut it along the outfield to tie into Harrison Street and then on to Bi-Centennial. The outfield area could almost create a Camden Yards kind of effect. It breaks the street grid a little bit, but extend Tredco Drive/Herman Street out to Rosa Parks and re-work the entrance to the Farmers Market and 909 Flats and boom. Then convert the Harrison Street/Rosa Parks intersection to a right-in/right-out intersection with a HAWK signal to provide safe crossing for the Greenway and that would be an excellent addition.

Two major variables/hurdles I see there would be. 1) The land value/cost would be astronomical as US Smokeless knows they would be sitting on a gold mine. I also wonder if there would be any form of environmental cleanup from such a facility. 2) The abutting single family will be a difficult adversary to convince. The land itself sits in the Gulch North district of the DTC, but Tredco Drive/Herman Street is the line between Gulch North and the formidable Hope Gardens subdistrict. The largest complaint the neighborhood would probably have is gameday traffic flowing into the streets. I think any stadium agreement there would have to include getting the whole area hemmed in by I-40/Jefferson/Rosa Parks to become permit only parking to give peace of mind to the residents.

Or going a step further on the permitted parking and expanding the zone westward all the way to DB Todd. This would grab Fisk University (which maybe they carve something out for themselves) so this whole area (established residents) is a bit more protected from the gameday surges that come in. 

Finding the best and right location inside the Downtown area will always come with obstacles and objections, as you have mentioned many times the drawbacks of the East Bank, there’s also drawbacks with almost any intercity location. That’s why I will stick to my idea, that if and when this happens it will not be in Davidson County. Not trying to be negative or disrespectful, but I feel that from what I’ve been reading that the baseball group is ultimately looking for a large tract of land to not only build a stadium, but a entertainment destination. Jamming a stadium into any neighborhood and having definite boundaries that infringe upon the surrounding community isn’t the feeling I’m getting from them.  So if not the East Bank with its large canvas on which to build upon, I truly believe that the possibility exists that they really consider an outlining County. My money is on the 840 corridor, be it Williamson, Rutherford or Wilson.

[ZestyEd]

I heard one of the Williamson County Locations is the old Ovation development next to the Mars building. 

[markhollin]

Music City Baseball has hired Mortenson, one of the nation’s largest real estate development and construction companies, to conduct a site and market analysis for multiple ballpark locations in the local metro area.

Mortenson has assisted with the successful delivery of numerous sports complexes and entertainment districts nationwide, including GEODIS Park in Nashville, Truist Park, Target Field, FedEx Forum, Allegiant Stadium, and U.S. Bank Stadium. They are also working closely with the A’s on their new ballpark in Las Vegas and the project for Big League Utah in Salt Lake City.

Mortenson will lead the effort and provide market analysis and data, site development assessments, cost estimates, schedules, and phasing plans respective to at least five sites, including three in Davidson County, one in Williamson County, and one in Rutherford County.

Music City Baseball plans to share the results of the study with Major League Baseball along with state and local leaders. These results will provide the necessary data to determine opportunities and obstacles for each of the sites in the study. It also provides a vision of a world-class entertainment venue that can host a variety of events.

“I think it's important for everybody who reads our reports and hears us talk, to know that we're not making finite decisions,” Mehls said. “We're creating ideas and options to see the big picture and the potential of Nashville for a major league team. The intent is to help get everyone in the community on the same page. If Major League Baseball is going to expand, let's have them expand here and let's have it not just be for the baseball community, but let's immerse this destination with music, building off the heartbeat of Music City.”

Mortenson is also coordinating with some of the nation’s top consultants in sports and real estate development including Populous, CSL, Moody Nolan, and Barge Design.

More here:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/music-city-baseball-partners-mortenson-site-arw8e/?mc_cid=8624f6210c&mc_eid=8a9439e721


And at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2024/02/22/music-city-baseball-taps-mortenson-for-analysis-of.html

[henburg]

They're gonna follow the Truist Park model and build in WilCo aren't they? I know people like that park but I would hate that so much

[PaulChinetti]

18 hours ago, ZestyEd said:

I heard one of the Williamson County Locations is the old Ovation development next to the Mars building. 

My goodness that is far away from "it" all. 

The trend in stadiums is moving closer to everything not farther away. I don't see how this would make sense. ESPECIALLY with no way to get down there besides driving.

[Argo]

Good. Keep it away from Bordeaux.

[Baronakim]

On 2/21/2024 at 9:59 AM, PaulChinetti said:

Hear me out... the site of the US Smokeless Tobacco building. Capitol as the backdrop, right next to park space, the farmers market, interstate access. 

Not  a great location IMO.  Remember the Farmer's Market is on borrowed time as there will be further large buildings  along the Bicentennial Mall to be built and the Market certaily to be relocated.  Don't you recall half of the market was lost for the State Museum?  I think the rosd accesss sucks for a stadium location with NO good interstate access.  I think the SF residences would be pissed off mightily from the noise and traffic also.  With the ONLY interstate accesses being at Rosa Parks and at Charlotte. I think this is a lousy location for handing big traffic generating facilities.  The I-40 junction design precludes further exchanges being built. 

 

Edited February 22 by Baronakim

[Luvemtall]

3 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

My goodness that is far away from "it" all. 

The trend in stadiums is moving closer to everything not farther away. I don't see how this would make sense. ESPECIALLY with no way to get down there besides driving.

I know this is hard to realize but for the majority of people that don’t live in Nashville , they DON’T want to drive into Nashville. A MLB team in Nashville will have a larger market than just the Metropolitan Area , so putting it outside of the city will actually benefit a vast majority of the perspective fan base. And if you’re referring to “it all” as the entertainment district of lower Broadway, that’s not necessarily on everyone’s radar. I know, I know it’s hard to believe but I deal with and meet a lot of people, and most of them often say they prefer not to have to drive in Nashville 

Edited February 22 by Luvemtall

[Bos2Nash]

53 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

I know this is hard to realize but for the majority of people that don’t live in Nashville , they DON’T want to drive into Nashville. A MLB team in Nashville will have a larger market than just the Metropolitan Area , so putting it outside of the city will actually benefit a vast majority of the perspective fan base. And if you’re referring to “it all” as the entertainment district of lower Broadway, that’s not necessarily on everyone’s radar. I know, I know it’s hard to believe but I deal with and meet a lot of people, and most of them often say they prefer not to have to drive in Nashville 

From my experience, people who don't live in the city don't like to drive/travel to the city. People who live in the city like the conveniences of the city and don't want to leave the city. I have had folks tell me that Mass Transit takes away their freedom because they cannot move around at the exact moment they want to move around. 

I don't necessarily think the "it all" comment refers to Lower Broadway specifically. I think that is a part of "it all" but for many folks that has nothing to do with it. This is why it is important for Nashville to have all these different "nodes" around the city. It allows different things to develop around them and the city to grow from a cultural and social standpoint. I still stand by the TSU site (and many folks I have spoken to agree with my rationale) because it can serve as the third "node" for the city to develop around. MLS/Racetrack + NFL/TPAC + MLB/??? serve as a backbone to connect and develop within. Access is a design problem and can be solved with design. 

This is why a market study is being done to truly understand the metrics and weight them against the costs. From a marketability standpoint I would think Nashville far outpaces the other venues because of the shots around and outside the stadium. That being said, there would be nothing stopping and MLB from getting B roll of Nashville for their broadcasts and then turning inward to the MLB stadium. NFL does that with Gillette Stadium constantly. I hate that because it essentially means we are okay designing something that completely turns inward rather than having a structure with an internal use, but also serves as part of our built environment and contributes in that way. I believe the urban venues are much better at serving the built environment and the people within it. Statistically, it most likely also serves the diverse range of people within the built environment.

[Luvemtall]

Yes, the Market Study will be an interesting read. There’s really pro’s and con’s with almost any probable scenario of location. Ultimately it’s going to come down to what the money people want, and then we can all start a new conversation about their strategy. 

[markhollin]

I can guarantee that the Predators benefit greatly from being downtown not only because of the synergy of the central core, abundant parking, and being centrally located, but also (and this is very important) being so close to Music City Center and all the convention business.  Many people in town for a convention are looking for something to do within walking distance of their hotels, and the Preds sell a LOT of tickets to these folks for weeknight games especially.  When you consider a MLB team has 81 home games, that means that at least half of them are on weeknights (and even some week DAY games).  Being located out in the burbs, or even in the TSU District would cut down on these types of ticket purchases.

Additionally, there simply aren't enough  hotels in some of these other areas to serve 10-15,000 out-of-towners who may come in for certain teams.  Sure, a franchise might build a few hotels as part of a Baseball Village out in Williamson or Rutherford Counties, but there certainly wouldn't be enough to serve that sort of volume.  And visiting fans are not going to be as crazy about getting a hotel downtown, but having to commute out of the city for each game. 

[PaulChinetti]

I assume an open air venue, but if they really want to make money, we would be talking dome so it could be used year round.

A la the new Nissan stadium.

[Luvemtall]

I believe they were suggesting a retractable roof , at least in the first renditions. Mark , you make a lot of great points and I think you’re very right about that. Which goes directly back at the fact that if the goal would be to capture “it all” as both you and Paul have been talking about., Then the choice of the Sports Authority Land on The East Bank remains a top consideration . As Its also has been mentioned, there are hurtles to that scenario but considering all the other options it really seems the most appropriate option.

[Argo]

Leave Tee Es You alone.

Leave Bo Dough alone.

Edited February 22 by Argo

[Baronakim]

18 hours ago, Argo said:

Leave Tee Es You alone.

Leave Bo Dough alone.

Your gobblygook post makes you sound like a retarded idiot IMO.  Go away.  No one will miss you.