Nashville as MLB Expansion/Relocation Market

[Melrose]

39 minutes ago, Sean blackdog said:

"...Murfreesboro could be an option, as could Williamson County...." 

C'mon man.   Any mention of building an MLB ballpark in Murfreesboro or even WillCo just demonstrates what a farce all of this is.  

[PaulChinetti]

18 minutes ago, NashRugger said:

The cost to remediate the land that is PSC right now is very much north of $1bil, so that's off the table unless some inteity(ies) pick up that tab. 

What would be the costs, hauling away like 20 feet of the topsoil? Genuinely curious.

[andywildman]

Plenty of room for a stadium & some neighborhood over there on the east bank.

Questions for another East Bank stadium are all about the $$$: $2B in land value? $1B in remediation? $2B for stadium?

Can't imagine the city and state put up more than $0.5B total, compared to the $1.25B of government aid for the Titans.

0

[Luvemtall]

The PSC site would be a prime location. Sooner or later it needs to be remediated, just who’s the burden going to fall upon? I think Icahn should have some responsibility, since it’s caused by his company but we all know that’s not going to happen. However the portion of that property that will be used for redevelopment of anything along the lines of mixed use or entertainment venues, will probably have underground parking structures which would require the removal of at least 40-50 feet of contaminated soil . That would be a cost incurred by a developer regardless if it’s brown field or not, so shouldn’t that bring the cost more inline? And placing a MLB stadium within walking distance to the new Nissan Stadium benefits from the use of shared spaces such as the plazas for pre game experience and the parking infrastructure. Plus help the new neighborhood generate revenue from almost year round activity, throw into the picture a new TPAC and this whole thing starts to look like something.

[Bos2Nash]

From what I have heard through the grapevine, the East Bank is not a real consideration. I have heard about two sites. TSU Farm site and then another tract in North Nashville (no idea where).

Besides, as mentioned either here on the East Bank thread, dedicating more space on the East Bank to another large stadium would be wasteful. We already have the Titans and TPAC going there, get Baseball to its own node of the city and then connect Fairground, East Bank and baseball with real Mass Transit.

[Luvemtall]

22 minutes ago, Bos2Nash said:

then connect Fairground, East Bank and baseball with real Mass Transit

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!! I just posted on the transportation tread , the mindset of the general public is reluctant to accept a new concept and forms of alternative transportation. It’s a very good idea to have these nodes, and diversified neighborhoods I’m with you, but we also have lived in areas that have mass transit that works ! 

[lmc123]

2 hours ago, andywildman said:

Plenty of room for a stadium & some neighborhood over there on the east bank.

Questions for another East Bank stadium are all about the $$$: $2B in land value? $1B in remediation? $2B for stadium?

Can't imagine the city and state put up more than $0.5B total, compared to the $1.25B of government aid for the Titans.

0

The State amended their brownfield tax credit this past year to make it more advantageous:

https://revenue.support.tn.gov/hc/en-us/articles/360057785252-F-E-Credit-3-Brownfield-Property-Tax-Credit-#:~:text=Effective July 1%2C 2023%2C Public,tier 3 or 4 county.

50% of the land purchase price.

[Rick Dalton]

Icahn won't pay a dime he's a snake

[MLBrumby]

5 hours ago, NashRugger said:

The cost to remediate the land that is PSC right now is very much north of $1bil, so that's off the table unless some inteity(ies) pick up that tab. 

Has there actually been an official estimate given for PSC remediation?  I have no doubt it will be expensive; not to mention the potential liability related to contamination. I think the biggest hurdle presently is that the PSC site has certain grandfathered protections and Icahn is still making money from its current use.

When that time comes....  Regarding future remediation, I always look to possibilities, and perhaps Mr. Cooper had a wise advisor who knows of ways to get Mr. Icahn on board with selling it in return for release (or more likely abrogation) of liability. I venture Icahn would know how much more that land would be worth if developed for other uses (residential/commercial). He also knows he could not sell without cleanup; so as such there's a pivot point that Cooper (or O'Connell now) should have ready on spreadsheets. There are creative ways to structure a land sale or even swap such as a land preservation trust.  I doubt a ballpark would qualify for that use but a portion could be set aside for parkland/wetlands preservation. I would think the mayor's staff did their due diligence on superfund eligibility. So hopefully, that was something that arose in Cooper's visit to Icahn. Still quite surprised there hasn't already been definitive studies of ground water and Cumberland River contamination. Just asking questions I'd expect Metro's leadership to be prepared to answer. I think the highest short-term hurdle is what I believe the article called "stadium fatigue" .... and O'Connell's apparent girding for a transit battle next year. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by MLBrumby

[markhollin]

Re: PSC site...actually about a third of what we generalize as "PSC" is actually owned by other entities, namely CITGO Corporation, O'Neal Steel, and Colonial Pipeline.  So they would need to be part of any sell-off to a prospective developer, and would also need to be part of any remediation studies.
 

[Bos2Nash]

3 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

Has there actually been an official estimate given for PSC remediation?  I have no doubt it will be expensive; not to mention the potential liability related to contamination. I think the biggest hurdle presently is that the PSC site has certain grandfathered protections and Icahn is still making money from its current use.

When that time comes....  Regarding future remediation, I always look to possibilities, and perhaps Mr. Cooper had a wise advisor who knows of ways to get Mr. Icahn on board with selling it in return for release (or more likely abrogation) of liability. I venture Icahn would know how much more that land would be worth if developed for other uses (residential/commercial). He also knows he could not sell without cleanup; so as such there's a pivot point that Cooper (or O'Connell now) should have ready on spreadsheets. There are creative ways to structure a land sale or even swap such as a land preservation trust.  I doubt a ballpark would qualify for that use but a portion could be set aside for parkland/wetlands preservation. I would think the mayor's staff did their due diligence on superfund eligibility. So hopefully, that was something that arose in Cooper's visit to Icahn. Still quite surprised there hasn't already been definitive studies of ground water and Cumberland River contamination. Just asking questions I'd expect Metro's leadership to be prepared to answer. I think the highest short-term hurdle is what I believe the article called "stadium fatigue" .... and O'Connell's apparent girding for a transit battle next year. 

To answer your first question, who knows? I tend to doubt Icahn has done that kind of study (why would he?) and I really hope Metro hasn't wasted any money on it. While I agree that hopefully some studies have been done on the Cumberland itself, I wouldn't want Metro to spend a dime on the PSC owned land themselves. Metro should not be involved with purchasing that very high values land and should not spend a penny cleaning up the mess made by the land owner. This is why it is such a sticky, smelly job, because Metro - while we want it gone and cleaned up - should ultimately not be responsible for the clean up. 

Icahn could absolutely sell that land without any clean up. The question just becomes is how much does it eat into his asking/sale price and does it outweigh the cost of actual clean up.

[MLBrumby]

13 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

To answer your first question, who knows? I tend to doubt Icahn has done that kind of study (why would he?) and I really hope Metro hasn't wasted any money on it. While I agree that hopefully some studies have been done on the Cumberland itself, I wouldn't want Metro to spend a dime on the PSC owned land themselves. Metro should not be involved with purchasing that very high values land and should not spend a penny cleaning up the mess made by the land owner. This is why it is such a sticky, smelly job, because Metro - while we want it gone and cleaned up - should ultimately not be responsible for the clean up. 

Icahn could absolutely sell that land without any clean up. The question just becomes is how much does it eat into his asking/sale price and does it outweigh the cost of actual clean up.

A little more on this... 

I don't endorse Metro buying PSC, but I responded to the article that Cooper planned to meet with Icahn about buying it for a ballpark over a year ago. While I'd like to see an expansion or relocation team to Nashville, I am against Metro being in the stadium building business. I stated in ths forum that I opposed the Titans deal but that's what the elected leaders decided to do. We state residents are also "chipping in" $500M.  I don't expect a sale of PSC to Metro to happen anytime soon because of "Stadium Fatigue" and reported priorities focused on transit (e.g. a new mayor). I'm addressing an offer that Cooper may have made to Icahn and assuming that (at one time anyway) Metro was/is motivated to acquire that property for a ballpark.  I'm not in favor of it. However, I have seen proposals by Metro that show their intent to acquire a portion of that property for future parkland.

The statement I responded to was that it would cost in excess of $1 billion for remediation for the PSC property, with no source given for that figure. While not ready to accept the figure as a given, I was not rebutting that point. I assume it's a large amount. Instead, my point is to the likelihood Icahn will sell if an offer is compelling enough. Most likely, he would, but for what amount? I have no doubt he knows approximately what the cost of remediation is. I think you and I depart in who should pay for the cleanup if Metro wants to acquire it (once again, responding to the article). We agree that it figures into the bottom line. I also stated Cooper would need remediation figures ready to approach Icahn if his intent was to offer to buy the property. There are certain benefits to Icahn from selling to a government and or a structure like a "preservation trust" about which I have a budding interest but very little knowledge. I also mention that superfund monies are available through government entities, and I understand they're easier to get in "empowerment zones" which (I believe) the PSC site is in. Theoretically, that would be a benefit to both parties. That said, I am no expert in Enviro Law.

Edited December 5, 2023 by MLBrumby

[tragenvol]

8 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

We state residents are also "chipping in" $500b. 

Typo?  $.5B or $500M.

[Sean blackdog]

20 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

The PSC site would be a prime location. Sooner or later it needs to be remediated, just who’s the burden going to fall upon? I think Icahn should have some responsibility, since it’s caused by his company but we all know that’s not going to happen. However the portion of that property that will be used for redevelopment of anything along the lines of mixed use or entertainment venues, will probably have underground parking structures which would require the removal of at least 40-50 feet of contaminated soil . That would be a cost incurred by a developer regardless if it’s brown field or not, so shouldn’t that bring the cost more inline? And placing a MLB stadium within walking distance to the new Nissan Stadium benefits from the use of shared spaces such as the plazas for pre game experience and the parking infrastructure. Plus help the new neighborhood generate revenue from almost year round activity, throw into the picture a new TPAC and this whole thing starts to look like something.

No more PSC any more.
Now new name SA Recycling, has 2 locations in West Nashville, East Bank. 

[MidTenn1]

This news from Axios Sports.

Quote

Nashville Mayor Freddie O'Connell met with Chicago White Sox majority owner and chairman Jerry Reinsdorf on Tuesday; the mayor's office confirms to Axios.

.....

The meeting, which was first reported by Politico, was introductory in nature, O'Connell spokesperson Alex Apple tells Axios.

...

• Mayor O'Connell did not share anything with [Reinsdorf] that he hasn't previously said publicly," Apple says.

Why it matters: The additional detail from Apple is telling because O'Connell has consistently said that a hypothetical Major League Baseball stadium should be privately funded.

• O'Connell's stance seems to throw cold water on a meeting that is sure to get Nashville politicos and White Sox fans talking.

 

 

[samsonh]

5 hours ago, MidTenn1 said:

This news from Axios Sports.

 

White Sox want a new stadium from Chicago. Nothing is happening here until an individual(s) is willing to put up around 1.5 billion. No one involved can do anywhere near that now.

[markhollin]

More on Chicago White Sox owner, Jerry Reinsdorf, meeting with mayor O'Connell at NBJ here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2023/12/07/chicago-white-sox-owner-mayor-freddie-oconnell.html

[smeagolsfree]

The Sox owner is just using it as leverage in Chicago. Nothing at all to make of it. Nothing to blow out of proportion. Nothing is going to happen or come out of the meeting. Do not get excited or let the aliens take control over your TV's or minds.

[nashscan]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:44 AM, smeagolsfree said:

The Sox owner is just using it as leverage in Chicago. Nothing at all to make of it. Nothing to blow out of proportion. Nothing is going to happen or come out of the meeting. Do not get excited or let the aliens take control over your TV's or minds.

Good, because we're kind of a Cubbies town.  Next.  

[markhollin]

Dr. Eddie Hamilton spent almost two hours fielding questions from skeptical residents Tuesday night at Hadley Park Community Center. At times, he assured the room that his group — the privately owned Music City Baseball — had sufficient funding and a known path to another professional sports team and another expensive stadium. Just as quickly, Hamilton emphasized that the process was bottom-up and would be driven by the community around Tennessee State University, whose wetlands on the Cumberland have already been scoped for an MLB stadium.

“Baseball is not the reason for doing this,” Hamilton told the room late in the evening. “I can go anywhere and watch a baseball game. It’s about wealth creation in our community. It’s a thousand percent about economic development for Black people.”

Music City Baseball has adopted the Nashville Stars brand, a callback to the city’s semi-pro team that competed in the Negro Southern League during the 1950s. The organization touts its Black leadership, which includes Hamilton and Titans legend Eddie George. The meeting was an explicit attempt to court support in North Nashville as the team eyes TSU property for its home base. Hamilton also told the crowd that Music City Baseball expects the MLB to announce expansion teams in 2026. 

Councilmemeber Brandon Taylor called the meeting amid ongoing conversations between TSU, Music City Baseball and the MLB about Nashville’s potential to acquire a professional baseball team. Two dozen people turned out, including Pastor Davie Tucker, neighborhood advocate Simone Boyd and Jamel Campbell-Gooch, who opposed Taylor in the summer's Metro Council elections.

While Taylor facilitated conversation, the room peppered Hamilton with questions about team ownership and stadium plans. Hamilton said that a stadium deal with TSU would help alleviate the university’s housing shortage and bring economic opportunity to the area.

“My personal frustration is that it apparently takes a private business to give us a fair allocation of Metro’s budget," Tucker said during the meeting. "At the end of the day, MLB is still a white-owned institution. When I hear baseball will be a magic wand to fix things in North Nashville? I’m not buying it. It almost sounds a bit patronizing as a Black person born and raised in 37208 to hear. They’re going to make billions, but a vast majority of the jobs associated with a pro sports team are shit jobs. Gig workers with no benefits.”

According to Hamilton, the group has the necessary funding for the team and a stadium. He also emphasized that the organization lacks a billionaire backer, a near-requirement to anchor a professional sports organization.

Hamilton shared that Mayor Freddie O’Connell — who opposed the city’s $760 million contribution to the future Titans stadium — recently told the MLB that the city could offer “land and infrastructure” toward a new baseball facility. New development often requires hookups for utilities like water and electricity as well as investment to surrounding traffic infrastructure. For the Titans stadium, surrounding infrastructure costs easily reach into the hundreds of millions of dollars.

"There are no offers out to anyone right now," said Alex Apple, a spokesperson for the mayor's office. "We want to reiterate that Freddie has not said anything privately that he hasn't also said publicly."

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/sports/baseball/some-north-nashville-residents-wary-of-mlb-pitch/article_bb15346b-923c-51a2-a703-870063fe7e1f.html

[samsonh]

6 minutes ago, markhollin said:

Dr. Eddie Hamilton spent almost two hours fielding questions from skeptical residents Tuesday night at Hadley Park Community Center. At times, he assured the room that his group — the privately owned Music City Baseball — had sufficient funding and a known path to another professional sports team and another expensive stadium. Just as quickly, Hamilton emphasized that the process was bottom-up and would be driven by the community around Tennessee State University, whose wetlands on the Cumberland have already been scoped for an MLB stadium.

“Baseball is not the reason for doing this,” Hamilton told the room late in the evening. “I can go anywhere and watch a baseball game. It’s about wealth creation in our community. It’s a thousand percent about economic development for Black people.”

Music City Baseball has adopted the Nashville Stars brand, a callback to the city’s semi-pro team that competed in the Negro Southern League during the 1950s. The organization touts its Black leadership, which includes Hamilton and Titans legend Eddie George. The meeting was an explicit attempt to court support in North Nashville as the team eyes TSU property for its home base. Hamilton also told the crowd that Music City Baseball expects the MLB to announce expansion teams in 2026. 

Councilmemeber Brandon Taylor called the meeting amid ongoing conversations between TSU, Music City Baseball and the MLB about Nashville’s potential to acquire a professional baseball team. Two dozen people turned out, including Pastor Davie Tucker, neighborhood advocate Simone Boyd and Jamel Campbell-Gooch, who opposed Taylor in the summer's Metro Council elections.

While Taylor facilitated conversation, the room peppered Hamilton with questions about team ownership and stadium plans. Hamilton said that a stadium deal with TSU would help alleviate the university’s housing shortage and bring economic opportunity to the area.

“My personal frustration is that it apparently takes a private business to give us a fair allocation of Metro’s budget," Tucker said during the meeting. "At the end of the day, MLB is still a white-owned institution. When I hear baseball will be a magic wand to fix things in North Nashville? I’m not buying it. It almost sounds a bit patronizing as a Black person born and raised in 37208 to hear. They’re going to make billions, but a vast majority of the jobs associated with a pro sports team are crap jobs. Gig workers with no benefits.”

According to Hamilton, the group has the necessary funding for the team and a stadium. He also emphasized that the organization lacks a billionaire backer, a near-requirement to anchor a professional sports organization.

Hamilton shared that Mayor Freddie O’Connell — who opposed the city’s $760 million contribution to the future Titans stadium — recently told the MLB that the city could offer “land and infrastructure” toward a new baseball facility. New development often requires hookups for utilities like water and electricity as well as investment to surrounding traffic infrastructure. For the Titans stadium, surrounding infrastructure costs easily reach into the hundreds of millions of dollars.

"There are no offers out to anyone right now," said Alex Apple, a spokesperson for the mayor's office. "We want to reiterate that Freddie has not said anything privately that he hasn't also said publicly."

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/sports/baseball/some-north-nashville-residents-wary-of-mlb-pitch/article_bb15346b-923c-51a2-a703-870063fe7e1f.html

This meeting sounds like it went poorly from reading a twitter recap. MLB nashville guys seem incredibly disorganized. If a team comes in the future I hope this group is not involved.

[markhollin]

Chicago White Sox have released renderings for a new ballpark in Chicago's South Loop area.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2024/2/7/24065603/new-white-sox-ballpark-south-loop-renderings-guaranteed-rate-field-soccer-stadium

[BnaBreaker]

I love the new rendering... and that they, by the SLIGHTEST of margins, still technically remain the South Side's club.  lol

I don't think there was ever any real chance they were going leave the city.  I think those were just idle threats intended to improve the club's bargaining position for a new ballpark.  

[PaulChinetti]

Kinda crazy there is that huge tract of undeveloped land in downtown Chicago. 

[BnaBreaker]

5 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

Kinda crazy there is that huge tract of undeveloped land in downtown Chicago. 

It really is.  Used to be a railyard up until the 70's when it was demolished... has sat vacant since.  Over the years there have been a few developers sniffing around but nothing ever came to fruition.  I'll be thrilled if something is finally built on this piece of land!