Nashville as MLB Expansion/Relocation Market

[smeagolsfree]

4 minutes ago, Sean blackdog said:

Yesterday evening from….. 

https://www.axios.com/local/nashville/2023/09/19/tampa-bay-rays-speculation-relocate-nashville 
 

That's one we can put to bed.

[Luvemtall]

Yes, indeed it does. 
but it rehashes a question, if the Rays a established franchise are considering building a new stadium with only 30,000 seats, certainly First Horizon Park could be reimagined to accommodate a similar number of fans. Just my opinion, but it’s there in a good spot . With a vibrant neighborhood being built around it, and relatively good access. If MLB ever does materialize in Nashville, the Sounds will be moving elsewhere so not to use this venue makes no sense. I know about the buyout process and all that, just saying IF something happens it just makes sense. In the long run, it probably would be more cost efficient than building from scratch.

Edited September 20, 2023 by Luvemtall

[MLBrumby]

In an ideal situation, Nashville would get an established team relocated with local ownership and they'd take over First Horizon expanded for MLB standards and the Sounds would move to M'boro to become a farm club, but then I know that would never happen. Just sort of fun to think about. OK... carry on! 

[Luvemtall]

I like that scenario!!

[smeagolsfree]

Looks like there is a strong push to bring MLB to Raleigh.

EXCLUSIVE: Canes Owner Tom Dundon Working To Bring MLB To NC – Brentwood (ncsportsnetwork.com)

 

MLB Raleigh – A movement to bring Major League Baseball to Raleigh, NC

 

[markhollin]

Former major leaguers Ricky Henderson, Andruw Jones, and Chris Sabo all believe Nashville would be a good place for  MLB.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/2023/10/03/nashville-mlb-expansion-rickey-henderson-chris-sabo-andruw-jones/71026537007/

[jjbradleyBrooklyn]

14 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

Looks like there is a strong push to bring MLB to Raleigh.

 

EXCLUSIVE: Canes Owner Tom Dundon Working To Bring MLB To NC – Brentwood (ncsportsnetwork.com)

 

MLB Raleigh – A movement to bring Major League Baseball to Raleigh, NC

 

Hmm this is fascinating--wow. 

I wonder how this affects Charlotte's chances? Probably not a good thing for them, in general, I would think. 

[KJHburg]

7 hours ago, jjbradleyBrooklyn said:

Hmm this is fascinating--wow. 

I wonder how this affects Charlotte's chances? Probably not a good thing for them, in general, I would think. 

There will only be one MLB team in the Carolinas that is for sure.  We have 3 major league teams here in Charlotte with the NFL, NBA and MLS and Raleigh Durham has one the NHL.   I do think they may want a team more than us in Charlotte and quite honestly I would be happy if they did get a team.  NC is the largest population state without a MLB team yet we have lots of minor league teams from the mountain to the coastal plains.   and from this article there might be more state support for a Raleigh based team.

The quiet effort to bring an MLB team to Raleigh, North Carolina (axios.com)

Can you imagine the rivalry between a NC based MLB team and a Nashville based team?  Or teams in both states vs the Atlanta Braves.  Given the current MLB moves and locations of teams I would say Nashville and NC somewhere are the 2 best bets.  More over a Portland OR for example.  

[markhollin]

The Tampa Bay Rays drew an average of 19,951 for their two home American League Wild Card playoff games this week. The amount of seats in Tropicana Field is 42,735 (although they have covered 17,735 with tarps for the past 4 years).  So, they could only fill an average of 47% for postseason play.  It is a joke how badly they draw for being such a good team between the lines.  Since 2008, they have made the postseason 9 times, going all the way to the World Series twice, and yet their average attendance has been 17,332 for all their regular season games during that stretch...just pathetic. 

By comparison, nearly every other MLB playoff game is standing room only, averaging 45,000+.  

It is really hard to figure how that franchise looks at that market and still stays committed to making it work.  The fan base (or lack thereof) has repeatedly shown that they just don't care. With their competitive  excellence, they would be a big draw in just about any other city.

[Luvemtall]

Having lived in the Tampa area for 19 years prior to moving here , I can confirm that attendance has always been dismal. There’s a certain amount of animosity between the two sides of the Bay , and folks on the Tampa side feel that the team should be located there. Also it’s a haul to get across the causeway, especially during rush hour.

[markhollin]

Major League Baseball welcomed 70.75 million fans into regular-season games, eclipsing 70 million for the first time since 2017. Average attendance per game climbed by 9.6% in 2023 — the league’s highest year-over-year increase since the 1993 expansion — and attendance increased from 2022 for 24 of the league’s 30 teams.

"Getting back above 70 million is an accomplishment for us," baseball commissioner Rob Manfred said Wednesday. "I think it's the playoff format, balanced schedule, the rule changes this year in terms of the product, the stuff clubs have done locally in terms (of) seating options."

Seventeen of the 30 teams surpassed 2.5 million for total attendance in 2023, a feat accomplished only once before in the league’s history (2000). Eight of those teams topped the 3 million mark, the highest total to do so since 2013.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/attendance-soars-banner-year-major-league-baseball/?mc_cid=6979d46d3a&mc_eid=8a9439e721

[Rick Dalton]

Welcome - the Music City Devil Rays

[Baronakim]

1 hour ago, Rick Dalton said:

Welcome - the Music City Devil Rays

Maybe they should be Nashville DemonBrewin's after Demonbruen.

[samsonh]

2 hours ago, Rick Dalton said:

Welcome - the Music City Devil Rays

They just got a new stadium,  they aren't going anywhere.

[jmtunafish]

4 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

Having lived in the Tampa area for 19 years prior to moving here , I can confirm that attendance has always been dismal. There’s a certain amount of animosity between the two sides of the Bay , and folks on the Tampa side feel that the team should be located there. Also it’s a haul to get across the causeway, especially during rush hour.

There are a million people living in Pinellas County and another half million across the Sunshine Skyway in Manatee County (Bradenton).  That's the same population as Hillsborough County (Tampa) in half the land area.  If the Rays can't draw bigger crowds from 1.5 million people for a winning team, a new stadium won't do much to help, at least not in the long run.  Tampa is where the action is, where the families and professionals live, where the corporations are.  There's a lot to like about St. Pete (my family has been in Pinellas County since before the Civil War when it was still part of Hillsborough County) but the Rays really need to be in Tampa if they insist on staying in the Tampa Bay area.

[Luvemtall]

Agreed, I’m not knocking St Pete at all. Just know from living  on the Tampa side what the sediment was at that time. I am assuming it’s still the same, my parents live in Zephyrhills and sister in Parrish so I often visit back in the area. Seems as though there’s still some resentment hanging in the air on the east side of the bay. 

Sort of like the feeling I sometimes feel here if you talk about … say a certain NASCAR track being in Lebanon and not in Nashville. Or when it’s mentioned that a Baseball stadium could do good in Rutherford, Williamson or Wilson Counties. 

[Winter Panda]

Here's an interesting discussion regarding the Nashville Stars. 

 

[Winter Panda]

In the video, they discussed the next steps for MLB to expand. Stewart said that MLB will meet after the World Series to determine which cities are the best candidates. He mentioned Raleigh as being Nashville’s competition. Stewart said that an expansion team would begin minor league play in six years and begin MLB play in seven years. Stewart discussed the stadium sites including the East Bank (which is not viewed favorably because they wouldn’t be able to create their own neighborhood around it), the healing site? in North Nashville (55 acres) and TSU’s site (200 acres). He discussed the ownership group which he said currently has three anchors and some smaller investors. He said they’re looking for one more anchor. Stewart mentioned that should Nashville be selected that the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum in Kansas City would create a satellite museum in Nashville in conjunction with the Stars.

[markhollin]

Major League Baseball is having their annual winter meetings in Nashville again next week.

[Winter Panda]

The Nashville Stars gave a presentation of their site assessment to the TSU finance committee on November 16. That presentation can be heard here.  The relevant portion begins at 2:50:54.

The site assessment highlights can be read here beginning on page 123. https://www.tnstate.edu/board/2023.11.16 Board Materials Second Draft Materials Board Submission Final Posted and Board Submission .pdf

Edited December 1, 2023 by Winter Panda

[Sean blackdog]

From Tennessean…… 

Play Ball!!!?

Hope to building new ballpark at  the old PSC Metals scrapyard land on the East Bank.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/baseball/2023/12/03/major-league-baseball-expansion-nashville-stars-music-city-mlb-john-loar/71759818007/

[Luvemtall]

8 hours ago, Sean blackdog said:

From Tennessean…… 

Play Ball!!!?

Hope to building new ballpark at  the old PSC Metals scrapyard land on the East Bank.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/baseball/2023/12/03/major-league-baseball-expansion-nashville-stars-music-city-mlb-john-loar/71759818007/

Does anyone have insight into this? Some of us can’t get behind the paywall, so this link is useless.  
can’t imagine that there’s anything in this article that’s meaningful, but curious. 

[Sean blackdog]

33 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

Does anyone have insight into this? Some of us can’t get behind the paywall, so this link is useless.  
can’t imagine that there’s anything in this article that’s meaningful, but curious. 

BASEBALL

Major League Baseball is near expansion, and Nashville's endeavor has big questions | Estes

Nashville is widely assumed as a favorite to land an expansion Major League Baseball team. But where would that team play? And who's paying for it?

 

Major League Baseball is coming to Nashville . . .

. . . for the next week.

The league’s annual winter meetings start Sunday at the Gaylord Opryland Resort, and what an interesting time it is for this city to flirt with that league. There’s romance in the air.

Kind of makes it a little disappointing when you realize this week won’t have a thing to do with MLB expansion or ulterior motives. Winter meetings have been held in Nashville before, actually. The event is a big deal for MLB and its teams. Not so much for the host city if it doesn't have an MLB team.

And this one doesn’t.

Not yet.

Might want to check back in a year.

“I'm optimistic that 2024 is going to be the year that (MLB) expansion is going to be discussed and moved forward,” said John Loar, managing director of Music City Baseball, the group working to bring a major league team to Nashville. " . . . I think 2024 is a big year for that conversation."

Indeed, MLB commissioner Rob Manfred said during the summer that once stadium situations in Oakland and Tampa Bay were resolved, the league would begin the process of perhaps growing from 30 to 32 teams. It's falling into place. The A’s are moving to Las Vegas. The Rays appear settled.

It's looking like sooner rather than later, it'll be time for Nashville to show its hand and see how it stacks up with the rest of the cities at the big-league table.

Music City Baseball has spent years preparing its pitch. Jerseys already hang in its office. It has resurrected the Nashville Stars brand and backstory, enticed local investment and partnered with some big names and heavy hitters in sports and entertainment.

Former MLB pitcher Dave Stewart has played a leading role. TSU football coach and Tennessee Titans great Eddie George was added to the board of directors, as was Bob Kendrick, president of the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum in Kansas City, Missouri.

The group’s public relations efforts have been remarkably effective. By now, Nashville’s selection as the first of two MLB expansion candidates is widely assumed as a foregone conclusion.

USA Today’s Bob Nightengale wrote in Septemberthat, “Nashville remains the clear-cut favorite for one team, while the second city remains wide-open between Montreal, Salt Lake City, Oakland, Portland and Charlotte.” In June, The Athletic published a pollthat showed MLB players backing Nashville (69%) as the best potential expansion city. Montreal was second at 10%.

Manfred even offered in April that "Nashville is on everybody's lists" for expansion.

Sounds great, right? It's nice to be popular.

The groundswell for MLB in Nashville carries so much momentum that it has become easy for outsiders to overlook two massive questions that need to be answered:

Where are they going to play?

Who is going to be able to pay for all of this?

Nashville’s effort lacks a controlling owner to help cover the $2 billion (or more) expansion fee and the price tag of a new stadium that would have to be constructed between now and the team’s first pitch. Money will be an essential part of this process.

Getting that downtown ballpark wouldn’t be a small feat, either. Not in a city with stadium fatigue over negotiations on the new Titans stadium.

Loar said Music City Baseball has inquired about the old PSC Metals scrapyard land on the East Bank. The group also has looked near Tennessee State’s campus. Murfreesboro could be an option, as could Williamson County. There's a lot of uncertainty and a lot to be decided. Decisions that a team owner probably should make.

And then you look at Carolina. Tom Dundon, owner of the NHL's Carolina Hurricanes, told the North Carolina Sports Network that he's on board with trying to bring an MLB team to the state, either in Raleigh or Charlotte.

The right owner can mean everything in an expansion bid. Nashville SC would be a USL team if John Ingram hadn’t stepped in to fuel the city’s Major League Soccer bid with plans to build GEODIS Park.

Asked about finding that owner (or owners) in 2024, Loar said: "I feel good about it . . . I think there will be a lot of people interested in being involved in this opportunity in Nashville.”

How about an existing MLB owner and team relocating here, à la the Titans? Nashville has become that other city MLB teams like to use as a threat to move. The Rays once had that come up. And the Baltimore Orioles. And the Chicago White Sox.

Meaningless.

“I don't see any team moving here at this point,” Loar said.

 

That means it'll have to be through expansion. And that'll be a fight.

Nashville can win. Nashville perhaps should win. But it shouldn't be assumed right now.

[MLBrumby]

It's an old article about John Cooper going to meet with Carl Icahn about making the PSC property available for a MLB park. Icahn sold his stake in PSC, but still owns the land.  Nothing w.r.t. any outcomes from that meeting. 

[NashRugger]

The cost to remediate the land that is PSC right now is very much north of $1bil, so that's off the table unless some inteity(ies) pick up that tab.