The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[Hey_Hey]

Megabus was/is totally freeloading folks. They don't spend a dime for anything in our City and use our resources for their profit. Whether you like the competitors or not ( Greyhound) at least they spent money on infrastructure, pay local taxes, put their drivers in local hotel rooms, buy fuel, etc. in Nashville. Why should the City do ANYTHING to help Megabus?

This is the same argument that was/is made by some saying manufacturing shouldn't use robots because it cuts down on employment. Productivity and efficiency aren't important according to that argument.....only employment. Megabus provides a method of travel that is very efficient means of travel. You should be celebrating the fact that a company has figured out how to provide a service to the public that saves money and increases productivity. Why should someone pay $75 or $100 on greyhound when they can pay $20-40 on megabus? That person can now use that difference to stimulate the economy in other ways. In terms of what the city should do, I would roll out the red carpet for them. Megabus targets a younger, educated crowd that is the lifeblood of cities. Megabus is one of of those "cool" factors that certain cities have and makes a particular city more attractive to potential residents. Of course, it also stimulates the local tourism numbers. I have taken a couple trips to Chicago on megabus because it was so cheap. That money went to stimulate the Chicago economy. Nashville will be the same way. Now people from Chicago, Memphis, Atlanta, and Louisville will come to nashville and be dropped off in one of the ugliest locations imaginable. That's a great first impression.....and one that may lead those people to never return.

[producer2]

Yet you are the same people who will beotch and moan if your taxes are raised. You have to pay for stuff somehow and allowing private industry to exist without EVER reciprocating with at least jobs, etc. is not a good way to keep your budget in balance. As long as it helps you, the heck with everyone else I guess. 

[Hey_Hey]

Clearly, megabus employs people. At this point they would have to have hundreds of drivers and dozens of corporate employees. They may not be based in Nashville, but they are jobs for Americans somewhere. That's really no different than a whole host of other sectors in the economy that have jobs based in a location remote from the services they provide, and in many of those cases Nashville businesses provide those services. Just off the top of my head I can think of Asurion, Parallon, and essentially the entire music industry. All are based here, provide services and products (insurance, temporary staffing, and concerts), and pay little in taxes or employment in the areas they serve. It's not just about taxes. If you look at private enterprise primarily as a means of generating tax revenue then you might have a point. However, tax revenue is a secondary benefit of corporate activity. Ultimately, private enterprise generates services that raise living standards and quality of life irregardless of tax revenue generated. Megabus is providing a service that would otherwise be unavailable to a population that needs that service. Good for them, and good for us that we have them. We're both better off for it. If you are looking for tax revenues generated by megabus then consider the additional sales tax and hotel tax that would be generated when they transport a couple from Atlanta who eats, spends the night, attends a concert and buys a pair of pants. While megabus may not have paid any money in taxes to nashville or Tennessee that couple sure did, and without megabus they would have never been here.

[bwithers1]

This is the same argument that was/is made by some saying manufacturing shouldn't use robots because it cuts down on employment. Productivity and efficiency aren't important according to that argument.....only employment. Megabus provides a method of travel that is very efficient means of travel. You should be celebrating the fact that a company has figured out how to provide a service to the public that saves money and increases productivity. Why should someone pay $75 or $100 on greyhound when they can pay $20-40 on megabus? That person can now use that difference to stimulate the economy in other ways. In terms of what the city should do, I would roll out the red carpet for them. Megabus targets a younger, educated crowd that is the lifeblood of cities. Megabus is one of of those "cool" factors that certain cities have and makes a particular city more attractive to potential residents. Of course, it also stimulates the local tourism numbers. I have taken a couple trips to Chicago on megabus because it was so cheap. That money went to stimulate the Chicago economy. Nashville will be the same way. Now people from Chicago, Memphis, Atlanta, and Louisville will come to nashville and be dropped off in one of the ugliest locations imaginable. That's a great first impression.....and one that may lead those people to never return

 

Just for the sake of comparison, I looked into Greyhound fares going round-trip between Nashville and Atlanta departing on Friday, 02/01 and returning on Sunday, 02/03.  I did this as if I were planning a weekend get-away and didn't want to drive.  The Greyhound lines have an advance purchase fare for this trip of $14.  That is including having a station where I can wait, maybe eat something, get out of the cold, and pee if I need to while I wait on my bus to arrive.

 

Can someone enlighten me on what it is that gives Megabus the "cool factor?"  I am being totally serious in that I considered taking Megabus up to Indianapolis to visit my family over the holidays but I didn't want to burden them with having to come and get me and drive me everywhere or have to depend on reduced bus schedules over the holidays.  I might consider it in the future, but I'm still on the fence.  I don't use iphones or other electronic devices like that, so I can read a book or a magazine or look out the window in most any form of transportation that I am not personally driving.

 

I have taken Greyhound many, many times in my youth and particularly during my college years.  I have also traveled on Trailways buses and on Amtrak.  I would rate my experience with Grehound as being superior to Amtrak in terms of schedule options, pricing, and even amenities.  But I will admit that it has been awhile since I utlized Greyhound.  Once you get over the "romance" of the train, you settle into the reality that most Amtrak trains travel in the middle of the night, often break down, have terrible customer service, and most of their stops are in train yards or other areas of town that are less than desirable.  Very, very few Amtrak stations that I have been to in my (limited) travels pulled into anything that looks like Nashville's Union Station, which is now a hotel.  In my experience, most people who gawk at using Greyhound because you interact with all levels of people, including many fine military people, who travel on Greyhound are suspect of elitism.

 

So this again brings me back to the question of what makes Megabus better than Greyhound?  My company uses Groome Transportation, which also has bus service to many Southeastern cities, including Nashville-to-Atlanta routes, but they are a little bit pricier than either Greyhound or Megabus. 

 

So if I assume that the Greyhound advance purchase ticket price is a fluke, what is it about Megabus that makes it so alluring (other than cost)?  Because the young, educated folks that you are talking about obviously have disposable income if they are going to cities and spending it on hotels and restaurants and putting money into the economy.  These must not be starving students.  So they could afford a higher ticket price if it were cost alone.

 

I work in the transportation industry, so I can assure you that having a pleasant customer experience is incumbent on the service provider, not the city.  So Nashville does not "owe" it to Megabus to provide the most ideal pick-up and drop-off point.  If Megabus is concerned about the Fairgrounds-area stop, then they need to approach the city about getting permits to park in another area.  Not the other way around.

[BnaBreaker]

I live in Chicago.  I recently visited some friends in Minneapolis for the weekend via MegaBus.  The total round trip cost?  $2.50...that is not a typo.

[bigeasy]

^ That must be a cheap route because I know someone that went to Minneapolis from Chicago for around the same price. I think he said he went there and back for around $10 bucks (6 people)

 

I went from Columbus to Chicago for $25 round trip.

[producer2]

I like food trucks also but I think it is unfair to let them park right in front of a bricks and mortar restaurant. The City did the right thing.

[BnaBreaker]

I like food trucks also but I think it is unfair to let them park right in front of a bricks and mortar restaurant. The City did the right thing.

 

Kind of an apples and oranges comparison don't you think? 

[producer2]

Kind of an apples and oranges comparison don't you think? 

Not really and neither did the City, hence Megabus no longer can pickup and drop off at the site reserved for City busses and public transportation. They can no longer block taxpayers ingress and egress into their homes (Viridian) and the riders can no longer use a pay parking lot for a waiting area free of charge. These are just some of the reasons that they are gone.

[e-dub]

i never saw a megabus pick up/unload on church, where the viridian is. i did, however, see them pick up/unload on commerce street.

eric b

[producer2]

The garage does not empty onto Church, it is the alley behind the building and many folks at the Viridian along with the owners of the parking lot, Panera, and several other close by entities were the ones who registered the complaints that created the move.

[UTgrad09]

I can certainly see how the location on Commerce would not be good for a bus pickup/dropoff. I'm fine with, and even support their move from there. But I don't see any problem with either using the LP Field lot as a temporary fix, or the James Robertson Parkway area as a more permanent solution.

 

The Fairgrounds is more or less like saying "we don't want you here." It's a $%&#hole.

Edited January 6, 2013 by UTgrad09

[BnaBreaker]

^^Exactly.  You want to make an argument for moving them from a busy corner in downtown, fine, I can understand that.   But there is a lot of middle ground between a busy downtown corner and a lonely abandoned field in the middle of the ghetto.  The fact that they were moved isn't what I have a problem with.  Where they were moved to is where the problem lies with me.

Edited January 6, 2013 by BnaBreaker

[Guest]

I have taken the MegaBus from Nashville to Knoxville and from Knoxville to DC (and back). It is a great way to travel. Nashville is making in unduly difficult to utilize the service. 

In Knoxville the bus picks-up and drops-off at the KAT main bus station. In DC it has bays in the Union Station parking garage. 

 

Not very good planning from Nashville.

[BnaBreaker]

I have taken the MegaBus from Nashville to Knoxville and from Knoxville to DC (and back). It is a great way to travel. Nashville is making in unduly difficult to utilize the service. 

In Knoxville the bus picks-up and drops-off at the KAT main bus station. In DC it has bays in the Union Station parking garage. 

 

Not very good planning from Nashville.

 

Agreed.  It's the same thing for Chicago.  They pull right up to Union Station in the heart of The Loop. 

[producer2]

A very simple google search of problems with Megabus shows the issues in several different cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/28/business/as-boltbus-and-megabus-expand-regulators-call-for-stricter-standards.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/29/megabus-passengers-steer-bus-to-safety_n_1838822.html

http://kut.org/2012/06/mega-problems-for-mega-bus/

 

and dozens more....

Edited January 6, 2013 by producer2

[barakat]

I support MegaBus as a cheap transportation alternative, but I also work on Commerce and see the trouble caused. Riders squat in the Panera without buying anything. The busses back up traffic. MegaBus needs a "free" facility with shelter, restrooms and food. The new Bicentennial Mall spot meets those things. I just hope it isn't disruptive. I wish they would use Music City Central.

[Hey_Hey]

I don't think people here have a qualm with the city moving them away from there old location. I think our concern is that the city and MTA should have seen this as a grand opportunity to make a great first impression of our city (not with megabus) by having them arrive in a central location that is safe and interconnected with public transit. Even if just 10% of their riders chose to ride MTA once arriving here that would be an additional 1500 people per month choosing public transit over a car and providing additional revenue for MTA. It would also provide additional foot traffic downtown or in the Gulch or Germantown that could support local businesses. It seems to me that Music City Central is the obvious choice. There's clearly the capacity to handle an additional 10 busses a day, and it would be a very symbiotic relationship.

[Neigeville]

A very simple google search of problems with Megabus shows the issues in several different cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/28/business/as-boltbus-and-megabus-expand-regulators-call-for-stricter-standards.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/29/megabus-passengers-steer-bus-to-safety_n_1838822.html

http://kut.org/2012/06/mega-problems-for-mega-bus/

 

and dozens more....

Okay, next time I take Greyhound.  Apparently they are offering cheap advance-paid service.  I can't see letting Metro provide Megabus with a free terminal when they don't do this for Greyhound, and Megabus seems pretty unprofessional per those articles.  The departing bus from Knoxville on my trip left an hour late.  I'm curious about this Bolt Bus, Greyhound owns an interest in them so maybe they're a bit more professional.

 

I imagine when it's all sorted out, we're going to have really cheap service between major cities and you'll have to pay through the patoot to get to a small town, realisticly reflecting the actual costs.  It seems to me rural life gets less and less sustainable as time goes on.  Back in the 70s everybody thought city life was unsustainable, turns out country living is the resource hog.

[Guest]

Those articles are a joke...right?

A driver has a health issue? Some customers complain and low and behold the NYT screams regulation? Austin does not want them to use the right of way? Question for P2. Why do all the tourist busses, convention busses and sightseeing busses get to use the right-of-ways to load and unload at hotels? You cannot travel Broadway or Music Row without a Grayline or Coach bus parked in the lanes with tourists loading/unloading or gawking....

The hotels currently use the public roads and sidewalks to load and unload busses. Do you advocate requiring all hotels to build special loading and unloading areas for their customers?

Edited January 7, 2013 by Guest

[nashvillwill]

Ha. I remember living on Hayes St. directly behind Loews Vanderbilt. Tour busses would sit and idle outside of my bedroom window for days at a time. It drove me bananas.

[Nathan_in_DC]

I don't think people here have a qualm with the city moving them away from there old location. I think our concern is that the city and MTA should have seen this as a grand opportunity to make a great first impression of our city (not with megabus) by having them arrive in a central location that is safe and interconnected with public transit. Even if just 10% of their riders chose to ride MTA once arriving here that would be an additional 1500 people per month choosing public transit over a car and providing additional revenue for MTA. It would also provide additional foot traffic downtown or in the Gulch or Germantown that could support local businesses. It seems to me that Music City Central is the obvious choice. There's clearly the capacity to handle an additional 10 busses a day, and it would be a very symbiotic relationship.

 

You hit the nail on the head here.  It's not that anyone begrudges moving them, it sounds like they really needed to be moved.  People begrudge them moving a potentially great source of visitors to the middle of nowhere.  Put them somewhere that the passengers will have easy access to transportation and a safe waiting area.  Don't make it so that the first time a travelling student, young professional or budget conscious tourist visit's town (people that you HAVE to cater to if you want to expand your transit network) they have to worry about being mugged or waiting hours on end in a sketchy area for a bus that may or may not show on time.

 

Yes, they were causing problems where they were at (albeit no problems that the gaggles of tourist busses don't already cause), but that's not a reason to punish the riders, which is effectively what has happened here.

[FrankNash]

I agree, when I went down to Atlanta on MegaBus it helped that MARTA was the stop. It made the transition so easy.

[producer2]

Do we need a refresher course in the history of the redevelopment of downtown? Without tourism and sports there would NO discussions on this board about the size and scope of the current projects. I wouldn't complain too much about a few little tour guide busses or those transporting hundreds to downtown sights from places like Gaylord.

No one is asking Megabus to go away, they are only asking that they become better partners and be more diligent in their safety structure.

[Guest]

P2

 

That was a totally non-responsive answer. I most certainly do not need a refresher course on the history of redevelopment of downtown Nashville.

The question remains; why should the busses be treated differently? I mean besides your belief the no one should ever question anything the hospitality or entertainment industry does.

Personally, I agree it is part of living downtown....kind of like a city allowing for a inter-city bus service to load and unload residents and visitors in close proximity to other transportation resources...

IMO your positions are not consistent.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Guest