The Transportation and Mass Transit Megathread

[nashveit]

I've been saying this for awhile - BRT needs to run down Charlotte (it would have to be something other than median based BRT, since Charlotte isn't as wide) Here are some strong arguments:

• Charlotte is in much greater need of economic dev boost than West End, and BRT would ramp up the momentum that is already building for Charlotte's revitalization

• Charlotte BRT would service campuses in North Nashville (TSU, Fisk, Meharry)

• Charlotte BRT would be closer to the medical district (including Metro General)

• Charlotte BRT would avoid going through pedestrian choked Lower Broad, but still close enough to walk to/from

• Charlotte BRT would retain the same route as the current proposal once you cross the Cumberland

• Charlotte BRT would have potential Park & Ride sites that are more easily accessed and closer to I-40 (on the west)

• Charlotte BRT would still go through the main bus terminal, Music City Central (it’s ON Charlotte!)

• Charlotte BRT would still marry up with Woodland St./Main across the river

• Charlotte BRT would go past the Legislative Plaza and state office buildings

• Charlotte BRT would go past the new Public Health Center and OneC1ty development near 28th/31st connector

• Charlotte BRT would go past Nashville West and adjoining retail as well as the proposed Boyle development in N. Gulch (West End lacks a retail destination this size)

• Charlotte Avenue is full of vacant properties - you could practically have a plethora of choices of where to put your Park & Ride sites, as opposed to cramming them into already congested areas along West End (White Bridge and Elmington Park - people in these neighborhoods got upset about the increased traffic that a proposed Chik Fil A near WestEnd/White Bridge would bring- how do you think they're going to react to BRT?).

• You could potentially go FURTHER WEST along Charlotte and capture more ridership among residents in Hillwood and Bellevue. West End route will stop at White Bridge - do you honestly see Belle Meade letting a BRT line come through?

• BRT along Charlotte would also better serve the greater number of communities it runs through. The population that lives along the Charlotte corridor would be much more open to using mass transit than the demographic that lives along the West End corridor (read middle class vs. affluent). I wasn't able to find any statistics, but I'm willing to bet that the ridership on the current Charlotte MTA route is much higher than that of routes along West End.

• Construction of BRT on Charlotte would have less of an impact on businesses and traffic.

So my question is why not Charlotte Avenue? I've even come up with a proposed route...

[barakat]

Not Charlotte because it's isn't the primary artery through town. BRT is useless if you aren't dropped off/picked up close to your destination.

[nashveit]

You're right it's not. But that's not my argument. What destinations does West End have (besides Vanderbilt and Centennial Park) that are going to so sorely missed if it doesn't have BRT? Charlotte has many more neighborhoods that surround it and more people that would be open to BRT. Many West End neighborhoods have already voiced concerns about the added congestion a BRT line would bring to West End/White Bridge Road area if you were to add a Park & Ride there. I still don't know where they would put this.

[nashwatcher]

West End, the major artery, IMO will be very successful with BRT(it also has many neighborhoods, and a growing business district...)...BRT won't have the same feel as old school buses...nashville's getting more and more congested and if you give the public this option on West End, i believe it will be widely adopted and a great first step into the world of mass transit...

[Neigeville]

West End, the major artery, IMO will be very successful with BRT(it also has many neighborhoods, and a growing business district...)...BRT won't have the same feel as old school buses...nashville's getting more and more congested and if you give the public this option on West End, i believe it will be widely adopted and a great first step into the world of mass transit...

Also the success of the system ultimately will depend on giving it a more upscale and not-a-bus image, and I don't see making Charlotte the first route accomplishing that. If you build the West End route first, Charlotte, North Nashville, etc will be clamoring for their lines in a way that West End won't if it starts on Charlotte. In other worlds, If the 1st line is West End, Charlotte will follow quickly after, where if Charlotte goes first, West End will follow tardily if at all. IMHO.

[ariesjow]

^ This was pretty much my thought as well. The success of the West End line could make a Charlotte Pike line even more viable.

[Hey_Hey]

I think the West End option is the best first option. Charlotte would be a great target for future expansion, but my next highest target would be a line running to the airport. With the convention center being built, and tourism already playing such a crucial role for downtown, an easy, rapid, and inexpensive way of getting from the airport to downtown is vital. It would also allow all of Midtown, West End, East Nashville and downtown get to the airport by using only BRT lines.

Another reason I like the West End route is that the express buses that run from Brentwood/Franklin/Spring Hill and from Smyrna/Murfreesboro could take 440 west to West End Ave and the BRT route then jump on the BRT right of way and deposit people at their places of work either along West End Ave or downtown. It would only add a handful of buses in the morning and afternoon, but it would significantly increase possible destinations for people living in the suburbs. Right now, unless you work right downtown, the Express buses require a transfer. And in all honesty most people living in Brentwood and working in Nashville aren't going to take a bus to work if it requires a transfer.

[chelovek]

I think the West End option is the best first option. Charlotte would be a great target for future expansion, but my next highest target would be a line running to the airport. With the convention center being built, and tourism already playing such a crucial role for downtown, an easy, rapid, and inexpensive way of getting from the airport to downtown is vital. It would also allow all of Midtown, West End, East Nashville and downtown get to the airport by using only BRT lines.

Agree that the next line to come will be a N-S route to the airport, probably ending up around Germantown.

And North Nashville will be ignored as usual, to the deficit of the city as a whole.

[po-boy]

Also the success of the system ultimately will depend on giving it a more upscale and not-a-bus image, and I don't see making Charlotte the first route accomplishing that. If you build the West End route first, Charlotte, North Nashville, etc will be clamoring for their lines in a way that West End won't if it starts on Charlotte. In other worlds, If the 1st line is West End, Charlotte will follow quickly after, where if Charlotte goes first, West End will follow tardily if at all. IMHO.

I agree with this. You have to make sure the first one succeeds so that others will follow. Nashveit may be correct that a Charlotte route would spur more growth (although I am dubious that any sort of BRT will spur development like light rail would), but I think West End has the most potential to be a quick success and then hopefully a Charlotte route could follow.

[timmay143]

Didn't know where to put this, but it is somewhat relevant. A blog post on how TDOT is more conservative to sprawl and looking to better ways to solve traffic issues other than widening everything. I have a hard time believing this, but maybe this is the beginning?

http://dc.streetsblo...ation-strategy/

[timmay143]

A decent article from the TN on mass transit in Nashville. Talks about increasing frequency and routes around town. Talks about the new University Connector route, the success of the express bus services from the burbs, and a bit on the Star and EW connector.

http://www.tennessea...=&utm_campaign=

I know 'nashville_bound' will probably enjoy these quotes and snippets. I like what I hear and agree as well!

Indeed, Ballard said the schedule is one of the biggest drawbacks of the Music City Star, which runs from Lebanon to Riverfront Station at Broadway and First Avenue in downtown Nashville.

“If we are going to go to the next level, we have to increase the frequency,” Ballard said.

Beyond major new multimillion-dollar upgrades such as the East-West Connector, transportation officials and experts say there is much more Nashville could do to increase ridership.

New routes are important, particularly ones that take into account the region’s changing employment patterns, but so is making the journey hassle-free, experts say.

Workers increasingly may not need to come downtown, where the Nashville MTA has its bus terminal, for their jobs. Some might commute from one suburb to another or to myriad offices, hospitals and universities on Nashville’s west side.

Some additional clips

Ed Cole, executive director of the Transit Alliance of Middle Tennessee, said identifying more cross-town routes is important.

He is not critical of how things operate in Nashville, he said, but he adds that the city should look to move toward a transit system that is not one-size-fits-all.

“What that means is a system where you have connecting services that are based on behavior patterns,” Cole said.

“If we find a number of people work in service industries in Green Hills and live in Antioch, then we set up that kind of service to meet that kind of behavioral need for transportation,” he said.

Still, public transportation costs money and requires subsidies from local governments in Middle Tennessee. Just a fraction of the region’s workers ages 16 and older take public transportation to their jobs, despite the recent increases, the Census data show.

At some point, Cole said, the discussion will come down to a dedicated source of revenue for public transportation, as it has in other cities across the country.

The alliance is a nonprofit organization that advocates for public transit, and Cole said he hopes to win people over with the benefits.

When the question about a dedicated funding source comes up, Cole said, he wants it to be about whether it is something the region wants and less about taxes and the role of government.

[Nathan_in_DC]

Really glad to see this is getting focus from the media. And it's also great to see that the powers that be are starting to realize the current system is broken, and that you must have a higher level of interconnectivity between services if it's ever going to work, as well as targeting users other than the I'm-on-the-bus-because-I-have-to-be crowd.

Predictable service that follows easy to understand routes is essential. More express services are the name of the game these days it seems, too.

[nashvylle]

How hard would it be to implement a bus / HOV lane on the interstates, or is this type of lane used already for the commuter buses?

If not, seeing a bus speed past you while you're stuck in your car in traffic will definitely incentivize you to make the switch.

[Guest]

By definition, can busses not use the current HOV lane?

Are you suggesting a dedicated bus HOV lane? Pretty sure that would not fly.

[timmay143]

I hope buses qualify as high occupancy vehicles! Not sure about number of axles, but I'd imagine buses are exempt.

Random thought: I wonder if cameras would work (like the redlight cameras) for enforcing the HOV? For example, you could buy an HOV pass which could emit a signal. Ever so many lengths (miles, feet, whatever) a scanner would scan the car passing. If it doesn't detect the pass, then it snaps a photo of the car/license and sends a ticket in the mail.

Has any city done this? It might not be cost effective. I dunno.

[nashvylle]

All I'm saying is the bus commuters will not be as effective if they sit in the same traffic as cars. It will actually more more inefficient since buses cannot maneuver around traffic like cars.

I wouldn't mind a bus only HOV lane during rush hour.

[Guest]

I understand your position. I am just saying that no politician that want to A) represent the sentiments of the people and B) wants to get reelected would propose such a solution in the near term. Personally, I think it would be an inefficient use of limited funds. I have never been of the opinion that the government should 'manufacture' reasons to inconvenience citizens.

[nashvylle]

Great Op-Ed in the tennessean. We need our leaders to now actually implement a dedicated funding source and effective mass transit!

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20121025/OPINION03/310250019/Transit-growth-reflects-Metro-s-future?odyssey=mod{sodEmoji.|}newswell{sodEmoji.|}text{sodEmoji.|}FRONTPAGE{sodEmoji.|}s

[nvestnbna]

Attended the regional transportation symposium today, fantastic program and speakers, great examples of the relationship transportation has to development. Raleigh and Salt Lake City reps in particular. Going back in the morning.

[nashvylle]

another article from the tennessean-

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20121026/NEWS01/310260114/Mass-transit-needed-compete-Mayor-Dean-says?odyssey=tab{sodEmoji.|}topnews{sodEmoji.|}text{sodEmoji.|}FRONTPAGE

[nashvillwill]

another article from the tennessean-

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20121026/NEWS01/310260114/Mass-transit-needed-compete-Mayor-Dean-says?odyssey=tab{sodEmoji.|}topnews{sodEmoji.|}text{sodEmoji.|}FRONTPAGE

Just reading the comments on that article shows how much of an uphill battle it will be to ever get any kind of funding in this city.

[ariesjow]

^ I wouldn't read too much into those comments there. There are a handful of scary hill jacks who seem to comment negatively on any and everything.

[nashvylle]

yeah I've never seen positive comments on anything posted in the Tennessean. Still will be an uphill battle, but I hope our elected officials vote for it.

[smeagolsfree]

Here is a two part series from Fox 17 about the BRT line and comparing to Cleveland’s BRT.

http://www.fox17.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wztv_vid_14921.shtml

http://www.fox17.com/newsroom/features/special-reports/videos/vid_485.shtml

[Nashvillain]

I really hope no one is seriously considering taking out the parallel parking lanes along the brt route. Unless thy plan to add some sort of barrier between the street and sidewalk.