The Westin Music City - 27 Floors/320', 452 Rooms

[fieldmarshaldj]

^True. It might be worse.

[MidTenn1]

From the Tennessean...(emphasis mine)

 

 

 

Kevin Fee, managing partner for developer Nashville Hospitality Capital LLC, confirmed that D.F. Chase Inc. will handle construction for the 27-story hotel. Groundbreaking for the $116 million project is expected by early November after the developer closes remaining financing by the end of October. Fee’s update comes after the Metropolitan Development and Housing Agency revealed that the planned hotel would be growing to 452 rooms, an increase of 22 rooms over previous plans. “We think there’s plenty of demand in the market. More is always better,” Fee said.

Edited September 18, 2014 by PHofKS

[Guest]

WTH?? DF Chase has minimal experience with hospitality projects (A couple of Gaylord properties) and zero experience with anything  urban ...

I am very surprised that this company has landed the 2 most high-profile hospitality projects since the Omni.

[arkitekte]

WTH?? DF Chase has minimal experience with hospitality projects (A couple of Gaylord properties) and zero experience with anything  urban ...

I am very surprised that this company has landed the 2 most high-profile hospitality projects since the Omni.

 

While the projects seem a lot different that their previous ones, it's not like they're actually designing the projects. They can/will sub out anything they're not familiar with, or make the necessary hires to do so. I'd say the zero experience with anything urban is a stretch and irrelevant. From the looks of the Westin as of now the only thing that makes it urban is its location, IMO.

[Guest]

I am sure that anyone can hire subs to build anything. It would not make them competent in doing so. My surprise is that the developers of these 2 high profile buildings would select DF Chase. Based on the limited experience of the builder the selection is akin to playing craps.  


 

While the projects seem a lot different that their previous ones, it's not like they're actually designing the projects. They can/will sub out anything they're not familiar with, or make the necessary hires to do so. I'd say the zero experience with anything urban is a stretch and irrelevant. From the looks of the Westin as of now the only thing that makes it urban is its location, IMO.

[arkitekte]

I am sure that anyone can hire subs to build anything. It would not make them competent in doing so. My surprise is that the developers of these 2 high profile buildings would select DF Chase. Based on the limited experience of the builder the selection is akin to playing craps.  

 

 

What tasks and methods do you think are so different that DF Chase wouldn't be able to handle them or sub them out to someone who is competent? The architects will design both towers, they'll send their plans to the engineers who will then send them back to the architects. They'll send those to DF Chase and they will construct both towers to the extent that they are specified in the documents. It's not like DF Chase will be making the call on whether or not they should use 1,300 psi or 4,500 psi concrete. 

[SoundScan]

This project is literally 50x the size of any hospitality project D.F. Chase has completed. They've never built a high-rise of any type. And now they're going to be building two simultaneously!? The project management requirements are different, the logistics are completely different, and the subcontractors will be (and should be) completely different. So far as I can tell, D.F. Chase has never actually built a hotel, just some basic additions to existing hotels and some room renovation projects. The only reason I can fathom that they won this project is that their bid number came in substantially lower than anyone else--which is typical of a small contractor bidding a large project well outside their wheelhouse. I think that reasoning is backed up by the surprisingly cheap project cost ($116 million) quoted in the article.

 

I realize everybody has to start somewhere before they go bigger, but to go instantly from building airplane hangers, rural hospitals, and school buildings to two large urban hotel towers is quite the jump, no?

[arkitekte]

This project is literally 50x the size of any hospitality project D.F. Chase has completed. They've never built a high-rise of any type. And now they're going to be building two simultaneously!? The project management requirements are different, the logistics are completely different, and the subcontractors will be (and should be) completely different. So far as I can tell, D.F. Chase has never actually built a hotel, just some basic additions to existing hotels and some room renovation projects. The only reason I can fathom that they won this project is that their bid number came in substantially lower than anyone else--which is typical of a small contractor bidding a large project well outside their wheelhouse. I think that reasoning is backed up by the surprisingly cheap project cost ($116 million) quoted in the article.

 

I realize everybody has to start somewhere before they go bigger, but to go instantly from building airplane hangers, rural hospitals, and school buildings to two large urban hotel towers is quite the jump, no?

Like I said, they can subcontract out what they can't do. I'm curious as to what you all think they wouldn't be able to handle about constructing these? The fact that you mentioned avation, education, and health care provides the example that they can flex and adapt to to the construction of structures with extremely different functions. A 5 floor hospital's construction can be much more complex that a 20 story spec tower, fwiw. I know from fact that it's much more hectic and time consuming to work on designing one.

Say these hotels each have 18 floors. 14 or so of those floors will more than likely be exactly the same. They'll more than likely fly form everything. Could they be in over their head, possibly, but they wouldn't have bid both if they didn't think they could tackle this. They also probably have/will hire various people who have experience with this.

(Sorry for any typos. I'm on my phone)

Edited September 18, 2014 by arkitekte

[Nathan_in_DC]

Airports, hospitals, and educational buildings often seem to be in similar construction and design portfolios, actually.  Not uncommon to see designers and builders concentrate in these three areas.

 

I think scansound and NB bring up excellent points in that this is the first time they've done anything like this, and they're proving themselves on not one, but two of the highest profile buildings built in the city in a long time.

[dmillsphoto]

Like I said, they can subcontract out what they can't do. I'm curious as to what you all think they wouldn't be able to handle about constructing these? The fact that you mentioned avation, education, and health care provides the example that they can flex and adapt to to the construction of structures with extremely different functions. A 5 floor hospital's construction can be much more complex that a 20 story spec tower, fwiw. I know from fact that it's much more hectic and time consuming to work on designing one.

Say these hotels each have 18 floors. 14 or so of those floors will more than likely be exactly the same. They'll more than likely fly form everything. Could they be in over their head, possibly, but they wouldn't have bid both if they didn't think they could tackle this. They also probably have/will hire various people who have experience with this.

(Sorry for any typos. I'm on my phone)

 

 

Let's go back to a point that Todd made and that is cost. $116M for a Westin of (reportedly) 27 stories and 452 rooms. Lets drop the first 3-4 floors as they will not be rooms and shave $16M off for those. That's a cost-per-room of $221k. Similarly, if we did the same thing for the Omni (and lets shave more cost off - $25M for non-rooms), the cost comes to over $80k more per room in a shorter stature. The more a building rises, the higher the cost for those additional floors. That said, I am skeptical that they bid correctly and will complete on schedule/budget, but wish them the best.

[arkitekte]

Airports, hospitals, and educational buildings often seem to be in similar construction and design portfolios, actually.  Not uncommon to see designers and builders concentrate in these three areas.

 

I think scansound and NB bring up excellent points in that this is the first time they've done anything like this, and they're proving themselves on not one, but two of the highest profile buildings built in the city in a long time.

 

There's more that separates them than one would think; especially hospitals in both the bidding and construction. There's numerous details and instances in both hospitals and aircraft facilities that schools don't need or require.

 

I don't disagree that it's not a good point, I'm just saying I personally from my experiences don't think it's as big of a deal as some may think it to be. 

 

Let's go back to a point that Todd made and that is cost. $116M for a Westin of (reportedly) 27 stories and 452 rooms. Lets drop the first 3-4 floors as they will not be rooms and shave $16M off for those. That's a cost-per-room of $221k. Similarly, if we did the same thing for the Omni (and lets shave more cost off - $25M for non-rooms), the cost comes to over $80k more per room in a shorter stature. The more a building rises, the higher the cost for those additional floors. That said, I am skeptical that they bid correctly and will complete on schedule/budget, but wish them the best.

 

Two things go into a contractor not bidding correctly. First, the architect didn't specify various materials (anything from appliances to carpet to whatever in the building) so the contractor finds a way to put in the cheapest furnishings possible, OR the estimators at the contractor all screwed up multiple times while going through the CD book that the architect sent over. With the number of projects that this contractor has had (big and small) I'm a little hesitant to think that they under bid two projects by mistake or on account of multiple errors that would win them both bids. 

 

As far as staying on budget, that's another thing in itself. Their inexperience might hurt there, but I don't think it will hurt them in the integrity of the actual construction. I'm sure both of these have a pretty beefy liquidation rate.

Edited September 18, 2014 by arkitekte

[SoundScan]

Either way, it's odd to me that D.F. Chase secured this project. Has it occurred to anyone else that there may be a conflict of interest between this project and the Virgin Hotel project down the road? Remember that D.F. Chase is not only the prime contractor for the Virgin Hotel but also the lead developer and equity partner, as David Chase is(was?) the head of the development partnership for that project. Just strange to me that they're building/developing one hotel, while simultaneously building another same-market competitor's hotel just blocks away.

[arkitekte]

Either way, it's odd to me that D.F. Chase secured this project. Has it occurred to anyone else that there may be a conflict of interest between this project and the Virgin Hotel project down the road? Remember that D.F. Chase is not only the prime contractor for the Virgin Hotel but also the lead developer and equity partner, as David Chase is(was?) the head of the development partnership for that project. Just strange to me that they're building/developing one hotel, while simultaneously building another same-market competitor's hotel just blocks away.

 

Yes it is strange. 

 

We're going to find out in a few years that they were laundering funds for one project through the other. On a serious note I wouldn't doubt that they would use resources for both projects at the same time and by resources I mean everything or anything they could think of to save money. That might not be exactly within the law, but it is what it is. Perhaps that's also how they for sure won the Virgin bid and through saving money were able to win the Westin bid.

[smeagolsfree]

I have heard he may no longer have a financial interest in the Virgin project. I am unsure if that is the case, but given his legal issues, it would be the right thing to do.

[satalac]

I hope someone beats the hell out of him, then drops any project he's apart of.

[Paramount747]

Does David Chase play in the NFL?

Edited September 19, 2014 by Urban Architecture

[fieldmarshaldj]

^Someone should slug him for what he did with the ending to The Sopranos.

[Paramount747]

Would like to see this start as soon as possible to keep the momentum going.

[dmillsphoto]

Would like to see this start as soon as possible to keep the momentum going.

 

Is November soon enough?

[Jamie Hall]

Just clearing the ground for this project could take a while. Aren't there are 2 or 3 big brick buildings that have to be torn down on the Westin property?

[smeagolsfree]

Just clearing the ground for this project could take a while. Aren't there are 2 or 3 big brick buildings that have to be torn down on the Westin property?

There are 3 buildings on site, but once they get going with the demo, it will not take long. They can have the buildings down fast. It's clearing the debris that takes the longest.

[MLBrumby]

Heck, I'd settle for a decent rendering at this point.

[mirydi]

I'm willing to bet when we do see an updated rendering, it will look much better than the generic preliminary one that's been floating around all this time. At least I hope so anyway...

[Paramount747]

We will know a final floor count as well. if its 26 or 27 for the additional rooms, maybe we hit 300 feet?

[barakat]

The Compass Partners website says the Westin will be 31 stories.  I believe I've seen that elsewhere too.  Of course, the floor count can change many times.

 

http://www.compasspartnersllc.org/menu/