Brightline Trains

[aent]

There's no doubt it declined... they got rid of their branded Virgin America planes as well. I thought their marketing and plane designs were great, so I was disappointed when they did... but I see almost nothing Virgin branded anymore in the US.

[WAJAS]

Their newest venture is a cruise line based out of Miami, but yeah don't see them as often.

[shardoon]

I believe when Virgin filed for bankruptcy, brightline saw no value in the branding. 

[jrs2]

https://www.fox35orlando.com/video/1291588

concerns over BL doubling its trains.

its so funny.  anyone living on the east coast has had to suffer multiple mile-long freight trains going down the FEC tracks daily since I can recall, where it would take several minutes for each train to pass.  How long does it take a BL train to pass one intersection, like a total of 25 seconds gate down to gate up?

[aent]

11 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

https://www.fox35orlando.com/video/1291588

concerns over BL doubling its trains.

its so funny.  anyone living on the east coast has had to suffer multiple mile-long freight trains going down the FEC tracks daily since I can recall, where it would take several minutes for each train to pass.  How long does it take a BL train to pass one intersection, like a total of 25 seconds gate down to gate up?

The video was technically about the boats.... but my understanding is on the 110mph track, because people keep going around the gates, they increased gate down times and installed quad gates, along with sensors to detect if a car is trapped in the quad gate area to give the train more time to slow down before impact. I think the gates can takes 2-3 minutes from lights flashing to lights off because of this, even though the train passes in seconds.

Edited October 16, 2023 by aent

[codypet]

24 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

https://www.fox35orlando.com/video/1291588

concerns over BL doubling its trains.

its so funny.  anyone living on the east coast has had to suffer multiple mile-long freight trains going down the FEC tracks daily since I can recall, where it would take several minutes for each train to pass.  How long does it take a BL train to pass one intersection, like a total of 25 seconds gate down to gate up?

The amount of trains coming was already baked into the planning years ago.   FNAA has been making this complaint for years.  What hasn't helped their case is their insistence that Brightline was just a front to add more freight trains, and add what they called bomb trains on the corridor.  Things that could have happened anyway without all the approvals and work Brightline went through for the passenger trains.  I do feel like if they can figure out a way for the drawbridge to open and close faster, than good, but I feel like the complaining about cars blocking the crossing is asking Brightline to do something they can't control.

[jrs2]

a friend and colleague came up to Orlando from Miami on BL Friday night; the 8:30pm train.  He said it was mostly full. 

Based on what he saw, he said it looked like most of the people were flying back out of MCO; perhaps day trippers or multi-day trippers that flew down to Fla but were flying back out of MCO.

[codypet]

@jrs2 There's a reason the BL station is at the airport and not downtown or somewhere near the attractions area. 

[shardoon]

I am on the coast a lot. A lot of times I am in offices that are very near the tracks. When a freight train comes, the buildings shake for a few minutes while it is passing. I have yet to see the brightline train pass by while in the building, most likely because I can't hear it, but I know they are passing many times a day. 

[jgardnerucf]

You got to be f ing kidding me. Lol!

https://l.smartnews.com/p-cdyYh/GF3Gjh

[orlandocity87]

12 hours ago, jgardnerucf said:

You got to be f ing kidding me. Lol!

https://l.smartnews.com/p-cdyYh/GF3Gjh

So they've completely abandoned the idea of their downtown Ft. Lauderdale Wave Streetcar? 

[cubanbread]

I remember chatting with someone about FTL's interest in building tunnels and how that could pave the way for subways in Florida. The same old argument always comes up, echoed in this article too - "what about flooding?" There’s this notion that we can't have tunnels in Florida because of our low elevation. But let’s not forget, cities like Fort Lauderdale and Miami already have tunnels. Mobile, Alabama has a tunnel under a river, and the Netherlands, despite its low elevation much like Florida, has an extensive subway system.

If you want to challenge the idea of tunnels in Florida, cost is a fair point. But to doubt our capability to build them because of elevation issues is just silly. Not pointing fingers at you or anything, just addressing a general sentiment stirred up by the article.

Edited October 20, 2023 by cubanbread

[cubanbread]

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2023/10/19/jta-looking-beyond-proposed-route-on-light-rail.html
A little article dropped today about Jacksonville's continued plans to connect to St. Johns and eventually Brightline. Not a ton of info but just more signs that things are pointing in the right direction. 

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, cubanbread said:

I remember chatting with someone about FTL's interest in building tunnels and how that could pave the way for subways in Florida. The same old argument always comes up, echoed in this article too - "what about flooding?" There’s this notion that we can't have tunnels in Florida because of our low elevation. But let’s not forget, cities like Fort Lauderdale and Miami already have tunnels. Mobile, Alabama has a tunnel under a river, and the Netherlands, despite its low elevation much like Florida, has an extensive subway system.

If you want to challenge the idea of tunnels in Florida, cost is a fair point. But to doubt our capability to build them because of elevation issues is just silly. Not pointing fingers at you or anything, just addressing a general sentiment stirred up by the article.

they go down into the bedrock, right, like the pilings for skyscrapers?

[cubanbread]

5 hours ago, jrs2 said:

they go down into the bedrock, right, like the pilings for skyscrapers?

I honestly don't know. 

[dcluley98]

They already have a car tunnel under the New River in Fort Lauderdale. Not sure how it was constructed though. I know there was a mega project for Port of Miami that involved a tunnel bored across the channel to the island where the cruise terminals are. I believe that was bored through the limestone, but once again, also for cars. I would imaging train tunnels would be more difficult given grades usually required for trains.  They have to have longer and more gradual transitions than cars normally do, hence why you see those huge viaduct structures being built for CHSR. 

[dcluley98]

https://www.portofmiamitunnel.com/project-overview/image-gallery/tbm-breakout-july-31-2012/

[cubanbread]

Brightline opens search for Treasure Coast station

https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2023/10/26/brightline-treasure-coast-new-station.html

1. New Station Proposal: Brightline has issued a request for proposals for a new station location in the Treasure Coast, targeting landowners in St. Lucie or Martin counties.
2. Property Requirements: Suitable properties for the proposed station need to be larger than 2 acres and should be capable of accommodating at least 200 parking spaces.
3. Timeline and Meetings: Brightline has planned private meetings in St. Lucie County on Nov. 28 and in Martin County on Nov. 29. Proposal submissions are due by Dec. 22, with negotiations planned for Q1 2024. The design, environmental, and permitting phase is expected to span until Q2 2025. Construction will continue through 2027, with the station operational by Q1 2028.
4. CEO Statement: Brightline CEO, Michael Reininger, emphasized the importance and potential of the expansion, highlighting that it will make Brightline accessible to almost half of Florida's residents.

Stuart:
I think downtown locations are the best especially in Stuart where they need to slow down for the bridge anyway. There's some developable land on the west side of the tracks but I think they might be able to work something out with the city Stuart and place it near their city hall. There also doesn't seem to be a lot of viable areas not near downtown in my opinion as they are too close to residential neighborhoods, aside from a portion a little further south down A1A which is more industrial but it does seem as though they're trying to pedestrianize it a bit.

Fort Pierce:
Downtown Fort Pierce is perfectly set up for Brightline. The downtown seems a bit more lively than Stuart and they also have a large chunk of empty land right on the other side of the tracks of the main core.

Stuart, Martin County
City Population: 18,253
City density: 2,472 PSM
County Population: 162,006

Fort Pierce, St. Lucie County
City Population: 48,405
City density: 1,988 PSM
County Population: 358,704

To me, there really seem to be only a few spots that make sense, though I'm sure there's probably something I'm overlooking. I did toy with the idea of finding a midpoint between Stuart and Fort Pierce, but everything there seems to be residential beach towns with no real development space. Even if there was a spot, I imagine getting past the NIMBYs would be a whole other challenge.

Upon taking a closer look, that southern choice near Stuart doesn't seem all that great, and not so much from a city vibe perspective, but more because of how far it is from Fort Pierce. Sure, it could maybe draw in riders from Jupiter, but they've already got their own nearby station in West Palm.

Fort Pierce, on the other hand, has the potential to pull in riders from Martin and Indian River counties.

While I believe either city could justify a stop, we can't forget that having a station in the Treasure Coast is non-negotiable due to a previous settlement with the region. I could see Brightline maybe going for whatever's cheapest or easiest just to check that box. But, to their credit, they haven't given any signs of taking shortcuts since they started.

All in all, Downtown Fort Pierce is looking like the top pick for me. There's open land downtown that's just waiting for a cool station, and there's room to expand. Plus, St. Lucie County's population is nearly twice that of Martin, and being close to both Stuart and Vero, it's in a good spot to pull in riders from those places too.

[orlandouprise]

Can we make it any slower? Geezus... its already 3.5 hours from Orl to Mia. To me that ride should be max 2 hours with express trains running non stop.

[aent]

4 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

Can we make it any slower? Geezus... its already 3.5 hours from Orl to Mia. To me that ride should be max 2 hours with express trains running non stop.

hopefully the replacement bridge near there should be completed around the same time so it hopefully will avoid any delay. hopefully there is also demand for express service at some point, when they get more trains

[shardoon]

They are turning the damn thing into Amtrak. This is redidulous. 

[jgardnerucf]

1 hour ago, shardoon said:

damn thing into Amtrak

Can't beat that $11 to Ybor!!!

[cubanbread]

New (unconfirmed but from a respectable source on SSC) rumor has popped up that Brightline may be choosing the Westshore business district as its Tampa terminus.
Even before this rumor, plans were already in place to build a multi-modal transit center at this location.
Westshore is mostly made up of midrise offices and hotels, and is wedged between two malls, International & Westshore Plaza. It's also less than 2 miles from TPA's Skyconnect, which has plans to connect to the Westshore Multimodal Center.
This location is about 7 miles from the previously proposed HSR Tampa Terminus in Downtown Tampa at the Marion Transit Center. I find it highly unlikely that Brightline would simply bypass Downtown Tampa, so I still expect them to have a station there, especially since it will be a crossover point with the Streetcar extension and a future BRT line connecting to USF/Uptown.
My gut is telling me that if true, this will be a joint venture with Brightline, Tampa, and the state. Tampa might also run a local line on these tracks to serve stops like Midtown, Old West Tampa, Downtown, West River, and NOHO. Possibly even VM Ybor, East Tampa, and the Hardrock casino/Fairgrounds.
As I've mentioned in a previous post, the current Howard Franklin expansion is being built with space for Light rail. So, getting Brightline on board for a Westshore stop could make that long-awaited rail connection between Tampa and St. Pete more probable.
Brightline's announcement is supposed to come around the second quarter of 2024, so we have some time to wait and see if this is true.

Personally, I'm happy with this. I know some peeps take issue with Brightline Florida not being true HSR... but it still competes with cars and flying. Moreover, the best side effect of Brightline coming to fruition in recent years is how it's helping to expand other forms of rail service in the cities it touches. From the coastal link in SFLA, to the Sunshine corridor, the potential for a shared track in Tampa, and even the proposed commuter line from Jacksonville to St. Augustine — I can't wait to see what happens

There are plans to expand/ redevelop Westshore Plaza that have been around since 2018

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, cubanbread said:

New (unconfirmed but from a respectable source on SSC) rumor has popped up that Brightline may be choosing the Westshore business district as its Tampa terminus.
Even before this rumor, plans were already in place to build a multi-modal transit center at this location.
Westshore is mostly made up of midrise offices and hotels, and is wedged between two malls, International & Westshore Plaza. It's also less than 2 miles from TPA's Skyconnect, which has plans to connect to the Westshore Multimodal Center.
This location is about 7 miles from the previously proposed HSR Tampa Terminus in Downtown Tampa at the Marion Transit Center. I find it highly unlikely that Brightline would simply bypass Downtown Tampa, so I still expect them to have a station there, especially since it will be a crossover point with the Streetcar extension and a future BRT line connecting to USF/Uptown.
My gut is telling me that if true, this will be a joint venture with Brightline, Tampa, and the state. Tampa might also run a local line on these tracks to serve stops like Midtown, Old West Tampa, Downtown, West River, and NOHO. Possibly even VM Ybor, East Tampa, and the Hardrock casino/Fairgrounds.
As I've mentioned in a previous post, the current Howard Franklin expansion is being built with space for Light rail. So, getting Brightline on board for a Westshore stop could make that long-awaited rail connection between Tampa and St. Pete more probable.
Brightline's announcement is supposed to come around the second quarter of 2024, so we have some time to wait and see if this is true.

Personally, I'm happy with this. I know some peeps take issue with Brightline Florida not being true HSR... but it still competes with cars and flying. Moreover, the best side effect of Brightline coming to fruition in recent years is how it's helping to expand other forms of rail service in the cities it touches. From the coastal link in SFLA, to the Sunshine corridor, the potential for a shared track in Tampa, and even the proposed commuter line from Jacksonville to St. Augustine — I can't wait to see what happens

There are plans to expand/ redevelop Westshore Plaza that have been around since 2018

I can see Westshore.

I cannot see them dumping the downtown Tampa location; I think both would get built...maybe one before the other based on their preferred real estate deals for the stations?

What I'd like to know is what the status is with Sunshine Corridor.  I think it would be ironic if Orlando's attempt at an "urban corridor" gets dumped ultimately by BL and they instead opt for the 417 to WDW alignment instead, and then they enter completely into a Tampa urban corridor right to Westshore Plaza.  If it happens that way, well, then so be it; Orlando is very unconventional as a city as it is.

But on the Tampa side, I'll tell you this: I-275 has a very wide easement...they can easily put a line down the middle...even an elevated station/connector up and over the EB I-275 lanes and on to Westshore Plaza or even over the WB lanes or both.  In The ATL, they have an office building/hotel directly on top of GA 400 as you enter into Buckhead and GA 400 is a "tunnel" for a short period.  Something like that would look cool over there.

Now, if easement could allow for it, I would have BL go right to that Intermodal facility that is near International Plaza- but I don't see that b/c of geography.

On 10/28/2023 at 2:15 PM, shardoon said:

They are turning the damn thing into Amtrak. This is redidulous. 

not unless they start offering express trains that go from MCO-MIA and bypass the other stations...  right?

[jrs2]

On 10/16/2023 at 8:33 AM, shardoon said:

I believe when Virgin filed for bankruptcy, brightline saw no value in the branding. 

I think next time US companies should maybe demand of foreign companies that if they sign a contract with each other, arbitration or venue will be in the US or in BL's case, Florida.  I don't think they did that here and they got railroaded by the British courts trying to protect one of their own.

Here's a status article on the first few weeks of service between Orlando and SoFla.

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/how-brightline-trains-orlando-ridership-fared-its-1st-four-weeks/V3OHDBIUK5HJVK2IUWIB2VD6LU/