CU-ICAR/Millennium Campus

[gman430]

Hmmm...not so sure how I feel about this: http://www.greenvillesc.gov/PlanningZoning/PlanningApplications/Applications/2013/SEPTEMBER/BoardofZoningAppeals/09-19-2013/V-13-203-Millennium%20Blvd.pdf

[ausrutherford]

Doesn't exactly look like the best place for a church...

[vicupstate]

Why would this church want to be here.  There is no residential development around at all.  The only reason I could see is I-85 visibility.  There is no need to have parking in front either EXCEPT to enable I-85 visibility for the building.  I don't understand the developer's incentive either.  This is not at all condusive to ICAR 

 

Verdae would be a better location, among others.  

Edited August 20, 2013 by vicupstate

[gs3]

Why would this church want to be here.  There is no residential development around at all.  The only reason I could see is I-85 visibility.  There is no need to have parking in front either EXCEPT to enable I-85 visibility for the building.  I don't understand the developer's incentive either.  This is not at all condusive to ICAR 

 

Verdae would be a better location, among others.

An absolute ridiculous place for a church. Let's just add fuel to the fire that Greenville is the buckle of the bible belt. I guess when developers can't get serious business, they turn to churches.

[StrangeCock]

What a truly bizarre fit. No thanks.

[GvilleSC]

Why wouldn't they hug the interstate or at least structure the parking. If they shared a garage with an office building, it would minimize the cost to them and they would obviously use it at different times. Terrible Newspring.

Edited August 20, 2013 by GvilleSC

[cutiger]

Which church will be locating here?  The link is currently not working...

[gman430]

Which church will be locating here? The link is currently not working...

Try this link: http://www.greenvillesc.gov/PlanningZoning/PlanningApplications/Applications/2013/SEPTEMBER/BoardofZoningAppeals/09-19-2013/V-13-203-MillenniumBlvd.pdf

[gs3]

If Greenille allows that massive parking lot / sea of pavement, then there TRUELY is no hope. I once a knew a Greenville that was managed well and would never allow this to happen.....now......who knows.....

[StrangeCock]

Ahhh...I missed the fact that it's Newspring. But now that I know that, I'm not surprised.

 

Another Big Box Worship Warehouse.

Edited August 20, 2013 by StrangeCock

[vicupstate]

If Greenille allows that massive parking lot / sea of pavement, then there TRUELY is no hope. I once a knew a Greenville that was managed well and would never allow this to happen.....now......who knows.....

 

Greenville, like all cities, is not omnipotent. And I have no knowledge that the city in any way encouraged this.

 

Unless there is a zoning change required, the city can only require the parking to be shifted to the rear of the building.  The variance that is being asked for can be denied, but that is the only OFFICIAL leverage the city has here,

 

The AMOUNT of parking is probably largely or completely dependent on city ordinance too.  The placement of it and whether a garage is used is at the discretion of the owner.  Given the expense of garages, that is a non-starter in many cases.

 

Also, Hubbell has a huge parking lot that is in front of it's building too, although maybe that was grandfathered in. 

 

Alternatively, the church should make an arrangement to use the Hubbell lot on Sundays.  I'm sure Hubbell doesn't use many of their spaces on Sunday. 

 

In a perfect world, a church would not be going there at all.  Rosen should have not agreed to this deal.  It is a waste of very valuable property (and it won't produce tax revenue either). I would hope the city would attempt to persaude him and the church to look  elsewhere.   

Edited August 21, 2013 by vicupstate

[gman]

Ahhh...I missed the fact that it's Newspring. But now that I know that, I'm not surprised.

 

Another Big Box Worship Warehouse.

NewSpring has just closed on 10 acres of land in Greer for another campus. This property is behind Greer State Bank, near highway 14 and Hammett Bridge Road. This, along with the new Greenville campus, probably means they plan to move out of the TD Center. This church is reaching so many people with the Good News of Christ. Awesome!

[ausrutherford]

Clemson has already announced an objection to the site. I doubt the city will go against the school's wishes.

[Danmire]

Clemson has already announced an objection to the site. I doubt the city will go against the school's wishes.

I was glad to read that.  It appears there are certain covenants in place as well as to what type of uses can locate in CU-ICAR or the Millenium Campus.  A megachurch certainly does not fit the intent of CU-ICAR

[vicupstate]

I was glad to read that.  It appears there are certain covenants in place as well as to what type of uses can locate in CU-ICAR or the Millenium Campus.  A megachurch certainly does not fit the intent of CU-ICAR

 

It's odd that Rosen would not be aware of those covenants. 

[StrangeCock]

Good for Clemson.

 

(never thought I would say that)

[gman]

It's odd that Rosen would not be aware of those covenants.

He helped write those covenants. He stands on solid ground with the sell of this property to a church.

[vicupstate]

From the Gville News:

 

 

Clemson University isn’t happy with plans by Anderson-based megachurch NewSpring to build a 1,400-seat church next to the university’s International Center for Automotive Research along Interstate 85 in Greenville.

But the owner of the 30-acre site where the church plans to build, Miami developer Cliff Rosen, said it seems like a perfect fit to him.

Rosen said the church would generate traffic mostly on Sunday when ICAR and other offices in the area are idle and so wouldn’t strain the infrastructure.

“I believe the church is a wonderful addition and very much look forward to having them there,” he said.

Howard Frist, NewSpring’s campus development pastor, declined to comment.

Clemson spokesman Cathy Sams said the university has many partners and investors in ICAR, including the city of Greenville and the state of South Carolina, “who expect the site to focus on education, research-driven economic development and job creation. While we certainly support NewSpring’s expansion in Greenville, it seems that this location might not be the best fit.”

Sams cited “agreed-upon covenants for development” that apply jointly to ICAR property and next-door Rosen land marketed as the Millennium Campus.

But Rosen’s attorney, Larry Estridge of Greenville, said nothing in the covenants prohibits developing a church on the property.

“There are 28 prohibited uses stated in the covenants. Church is not one of those,” Estridge said.

“And I can tell you because I was a co-author. Never did Clemson even ask to have churches banned from the campus, nor hospitals, nor schools, and all of those are permitted in the S1 zoning that we all sought, including Clemson, for the campus.”

Estridge said a three-member design review committee required by the covenants met Tuesday with NewSpring officials in his office and voted to give preliminary approval to the church’s plan.

Clemson’s appointee to the review committee, John Boyette, director of the university’s Office of Land and Capital Asset Stewardship, cast the only vote against the church’s plan, Estridge said.

Boyette declined to comment.

NewSpring, whose Greenville branch has been meeting at the TD Convention Center, plans a 67,000-square-foot building with 874 parking spaces next to ICAR’s Technology Neighborhood I, according to an application for a zoning variance on file at City Hall.

Rosen said he has a contract to sell the site to NewSpring.

He acquired the land after Clemson picked him more than a decade ago as the private developer for ICAR.

Later, his deal with the university to develop 400 acres was restructured after intervention by then-Gov. Mark Sanford and his then-Commerce Secretary, Bob Faith.

That left Rosen in control of 150 acres and the Clemson University Real Estate Foundation in control of 250.

Since then, Rosen has sold parts of his property to Hubbell Lighting for its corporate headquarters, Bon Secours St. Francis Health System for medical offices and Greenville County Schools for a middle school.

Proterra, the Greenville-based manufacturer of battery-powered transit buses, had planned to build a factory at ICAR with Clemson’s blessing but that project never materialized.

Estridge said ICAR has “plenty of room” to develop more automotive research activity, “and we all hope there will be lots more coming.”

But the 400 acres today has “a lot more of an institutional flavor than it did,” Estridge said.

NewSpring is asking the Greenville Board of Zoning Appeals for relief from a requirement than no more than 20 percent of parking go in front of the church building.

NewSpring’s site plan shows two future office buildings on the site in addition to a church building with a sanctuary and classrooms, but Estridge said plans for the office buildings aren’t firm.

[vicupstate]

Obviously there is some disagreement on whether the covenants would be violated or not.  I hope Clemson and the city use whatever power they have to dissaude this.  Millions of tax dollars were spent to build the infrastructure in I-CAR, with the intent of creatung a magnet for high paying jobs in the research sector.  This project does not fulfill that purpose, and Rosen knows this.  Will other churches be allowed also?  I personally had some qualms about the Middle School, but since it was STEM, I felt it was still of relevance.

 

New Spring has other options. Hopefully an enterprising commercial realtor can find them something elsewhere.

 

Does anyone know how to get a copy of the covenants?

[gman430]

Unfortunately it looks like there is no way of stopping this church except to reject the expanded parking lot they want due to the covenants allowing it.

[vicupstate]

Unfortunately it looks like there is no way of stopping this church except to reject the expanded parking lot they want due to the covenants allowing it.

 

Is 874 spaces MORE than what is required?  The city has to approve the variance of having more than 20% of the total spaces being IN FRONT of the building.   That is what is on the agenda for next month.

 

Even if the city denies that, they could just shift the parking around to compile, I'm afraid.

[gs3]

Welcome to:

 

THE BUCKLE!  SAY GLOWW-REE!

[Greenville]

Aside from this being a horrible idea for CU-ICAR, the Millennium Campus, and the city of Greenville, I don't understand why NewSpring wants to build a church campus there.  What is the draw for them there?  I would much rather sell them the TD Convention Center, and have the city of Greenville use that money to build a better convention center in a better location (County Square, perhaps?) which would be a bigger net benefit for all.

 

Just because it is "legal" to allow a church to be built on the Millennium Campus, doesn't mean it is a good idea.  I really hope this is rejected somehow.

[goodbye]

I assume the church wants I-85 visibility. Apparently their main goal is to have 100,000 members pumping money into the shallow "gospel according to Perry Noble" machine.

[GvilleSC]

With their building splattered down in the middle of the site, their visibility is going to be terrible at 70 mph. Poor leadership in the church to even entertain this idea. They should sign on with Magnolia Park. Ha!