Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[Miesian Corners]

On 8/21/2023 at 3:43 PM, tozmervo said:

Someone suggested (maybe on UP, I can't remember where) that the Terrazzo is not allowed to fully cure because the airport has to put the spaces back into use in less than 24 hours. That might explain the concourses if they are doing overnight installs, but that would not explain brand new terminal areas. 

If only. Concourse A (the old one) flooring on one side was completely partitioned off during installation for six months. It still looks like merde. I'm just really curious as to how the new sections of flooring in the terminal expansion will look when all is complete. Also, the new restrooms adjacent to the parking garage tunnel already look as if they haven't seen a mop or maintenance in many years (they're a year old). 

[CLT2014]

I believe the airport changed janitorial vendors a few years ago. The airport went a complete 180 from having a dedicated attendant in each bathroom wiping everything down constantly (and sort of asking for a tip... which was a dynamic itself) to no janitorial people in sight to even tip! With the amount of people going through the restrooms at CLT during each connection bank, you really need a dedicated person in each bathroom cleaning constantly to keep up with how messy humans are in a bathroom.

Concourse B for example.... two bathrooms for each gender in the concourse... 16 gates that have aircraft largely simultaneously pull up to the gate with 180 passengers on average = 2,880 people getting off a plane to go to the bathroom + 2,880 people waiting to replace them = 5,760 people possibly using the 2 bathrooms per gender in Course B within an hour connection bank. Those restrooms are getting heavily used.... you can't wait until later. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by CLT2014

[KJHburg]

This is going to be great!  Can not wait till it opens.   https://www.sullenbergeraviation.org/    "Fly" through the new museum.   I hope Zipline Drone of Concord gets involved with this too. 

 

[nakers2]

3 hours ago, KJHburg said:

This is going to be great!  Can not wait till it opens.   https://www.sullenbergeraviation.org/    "Fly" through the new museum.   I hope Zipline Drone of Concord gets involved with this too. 

 

Can't wait for AA to buy a bunch of a380s like the rendering shows. 

[KJHburg]

From CLT Twitter

CLT Airport
@CLTAirport

Soaring high above the airfield at 370 feet, the FAA air traffic control tower is the second tallest in the United States and greets an average of 1,400 arriving passengers each day. #CLTairport 

[joshuavmc]

1,400 passengers day? I would say flights? 

Edited September 3, 2023 by joshuavmc

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, joshuavmc said:

1,400 passengers day? I would say flights? 

Yes that seems to be the wrong wording and I did copy that straight from the Twitter account. 

[Richhamleigh, DC]

How does CLT not have an on-site airport hotel?  Looking around at other airports the size of CLT, all of them have airport hotels.  Heck, even Nashville, TN, Bangor, ME, and Hartford, CT have airport hotels.  

[NCMike1990]

Even PTI has one.

[videtur quam contuor]

Booking to LGA today and Delta is usually the better deal for all classes of travel. After making booking I checked AA to see what I saved and...AA had a matching price! Is that true for other destinations?

[TCLT]

1 hour ago, videtur quam contuor said:

Booking to LGA today and Delta is usually the better deal for all classes of travel. After making booking I checked AA to see what I saved and...AA had a matching price! Is that true for other destinations?

If another airline flies the nonstop with a similar schedule then AA most likely matches or beats the fare. There are very few overlapping nonstops out of CLT relative to the total number of nonstops AA offers though. Also keep in mind AA typically flies many more seats and usually many more frequencies to any given nonstop destination than the OALs. So AA can match fares on competitors’ similar capacity and timing and still have capacity left over to charge higher fares to O/D passengers. Which also means other airlines have little reason to try to undercut AA in the first place. 

[15895]

Rumors of Lufthansa starting Raleigh - Frankfurt. 
 

NC must have quite the German ties. 

[LKN704]

It is confirmed. 5x weekly service starting June 2024 - believe the aircraft type will be an A333. I believe Raleigh will be the smallest metro area to have transatlantic service on all three airline alliances and a LCC transatlantic carrier (which is essentially what Icelandair is). 

It's my understanding that RDU and local Triangle governments/businesses moved heaven and earth to land this flight. They were also in negotiations with KLM pre-pandemic, so I wonder if the incentives that were tied to KLM ultimately went to Lufthansa. Really a textbook case study of a successful air service development program, which I believe CLT still lacks.  From what I gather the RDU-FRA flight is less about Germany and more about enhanced onward connections to the Indian subcontinent. 

I do wonder how stable all that service is over the long run. Icelandair thrives in underserved medium-sized markets in the U.S., and I can't really see them staying put. 

Raleigh will now have three European carriers while Charlotte only has one - never thought I would see this day!

Edited September 12, 2023 by LKN704

[CLT2014]

48 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Rumors of Lufthansa starting Raleigh - Frankfurt. 
 

NC must have quite the German ties. 

Lufthansa's Frankfurt hub is also largely connections. 80% of passengers on Lufthansa between North America and Frankfurt are just connecting through to elsewhere as opposed to visiting Frankfurt. They will likely connect a good amount of RDU travelers to India, elsewhere in Germany, Eastern Europe, Greece, Italy, et.. The Frankfurt hub is sort of similar to CLT... all about connections as opposed to the heavy O&D that British enjoys at LHR and Air France enjoys in Paris. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by CLT2014

[videtur quam contuor]

I, too, have heard for a few years that the India (Bharat) connection from RDU was important for their local and regional passengers.

[csweet]

Saw an AC E175 yesterday at CLT, did they permanently upgrade from the CRJ again?

 

[CLT2014]

16 minutes ago, csweet said:

Saw an AC E175 yesterday at CLT, did they permanently upgrade from the CRJ again?

They did. All E175 now.

[KJHburg]

4 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Lufthansa's Frankfurt hub is also largely connections. 80% of passengers on Lufthansa between North America and Frankfurt are just connecting through to elsewhere as opposed to visiting Frankfurt. They will likely connect a good amount of RDU travelers to India, elsewhere in Germany, Eastern Europe, Greece, Italy, et.. The Frankfurt hub is sort of similar to CLT... all about connections as opposed to the heavy O&D that British enjoys at LHR and Air France enjoys in Paris. 

absolutely and the mention of India is important.  The Triangle has many Indian based companies and the largest concentration of Asian Indians in the Carolinas.   Infosys and HCL Technologies both have big operations and are Indian based companies.  Plus many smaller biopharma and tech companies have operations there. 

 

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

On 9/8/2023 at 5:30 PM, videtur quam contuor said:

Booking to LGA today and Delta is usually the better deal for all classes of travel. After making booking I checked AA to see what I saved and...AA had a matching price! Is that true for other destinations?

The quality of the trip on Delta is worth it, especially at the same price lol. Going to be nice with that Sky Club next year...

[LKN704]

A survey I can get behind IMO - CLT's score seems about right.

I'm surprised to see Denver score so high. It isn't a bad airport and its terminals are much roomier than Charlotte, but the terminal needs a giant refresh. The whole terminal feels like (and looks like) a shopping mall that was designed in the 1990s, which is essentially what it is. 

Not sure how Miami scored so high...a literal dump. 

[CLT2014]

That feels about right indeed.

Delta is also #2 in the JD Power Survey for airline satisfaction, right behind Southwest (for economy class). American is #9, above Spirit. It would align that Delta hubs would have very high satisfaction given the airline experience and airport experience are so closely related. If people like Delta, they are also likely to have a better airport experience at the fortress hubs of DTW, MSP, ATL, SLC and vice versa. 

[15895]

Detroit and Minneapolis are definitely indisputable for me as #1 & #2.  I enjoy them both. Everything else seems right I guess. I don’t feel strongly about them other than Newark shouldn’t be on the list…. At all, at all. 

[elrodvt]

I agree Denver could use a refresh but it's got a lot going for it.

On the tangible side is good competition and, at least when we lived there, much more competitive fares than here. A train into the city fwiw. Very roomy and generally fast security. Great restaurant options catered by some local favorite restaurants in addition to all the crap chains you could ask for. Clean and large restrooms.

On the intangible side as a visitor to Denver you just kind of smile when you land and get on the terminal train and they play the goofy Western music and a message from the mayor. Then there are all the greeters asking clueless looking people if they need help. You just feel welcome. 

It's a totally different experience than here especially for arrivals. They really cater to the tourist trade to everyone's benefit - which we don't have. 

Orlando must be improved from the last time I was there! 

Edited September 20, 2023 by elrodvt

[Miesian Corners]

On 9/20/2023 at 11:19 AM, LKN704 said:

 

I'm surprised to see Denver score so high. It isn't a bad airport and its terminals are much roomier than Charlotte, but the terminal needs a giant refresh. The whole terminal feels like (and looks like) a shopping mall that was designed in the 1990s, which is essentially what it is. 

 

Denver is in the middle of a $1 billion renovation. 

[Reverie39]

The Triangle has a massive Indian community that regularly visits India, so the Frankfurt thing makes sense.

On 9/20/2023 at 11:19 AM, LKN704 said:

A survey I can get behind IMO - CLT's score seems about right.

I'm surprised to see Denver score so high. It isn't a bad airport and its terminals are much roomier than Charlotte, but the terminal needs a giant refresh. The whole terminal feels like (and looks like) a shopping mall that was designed in the 1990s, which is essentially what it is. 

Not sure how Miami scored so high...a literal dump. 

I always see Detroit so high on rankings like this. My couple memories of it include sprinting along its massive length to a connection because the trains were down, and sprinting another time because my arrival gate was halfway between train stops and I had to connect in the other smaller terminal... which is a long walk that is only partially aided by very crowded moving walkways. Maybe I just got unlucky, but I have always felt that it's not a good design for an airport with lots of connections. Gates are just so far from each other in the gigantic terminal and it can be very difficult to reach them, not to mention the requirement of walking to the other terminal. I have had much better experiences in Atlanta where frequent trains just plop you directly in your terminal of choice and you never have to walk very far. 

Also, Detroit airport is SO far from the city. When I actually want to visit people in the Detroit area, it has always been an hour+ drive even with light traffic because the airport is just so far away to the south from most of the metropolitan area.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Reverie39