Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[BarrenLucidity]

3 hours ago, TCLT said:

Once A North II opens AA will be up to around 100 or so gates. 7-8 flights per gate per day is heavy use but should be doable. AA has also pulled down their regional flying the last couple years because the regional airlines are having trouble staffing the flight decks. Assuming the pilot situation changes they should be able to restore or even grow the regional ops which will boost the flight numbers. The article touches on that point. In any case AA would definitely be pushing the terminal to its limits with 800 flights.

The B and/or C extensions could also be complete by 2028, right? That would be about 10 more gates each, but I assume the 800 flight number in the article didn't include those.

International expansion has to be part of this... I wonder if they move most of the Caribbean flights to MIA and pull transatlantic to CLT, away from PHL. They were basically ready to kill PHL according to the NEA JetBlue court filling. 

[KJHburg]

Airport Business magazine on the new runway.

https://www.aviationpros.com/airports/press-release/53063146/charlotte-douglas-international-airport-clt-charlotte-douglas-international-airport-breaks-ground-on-fourth-parallel-runway?

[csweet]

15 hours ago, TCLT said:

Once A North II opens AA will be up to around 100 or so gates. 7-8 flights per gate per day is heavy use but should be doable. AA has also pulled down their regional flying the last couple years because the regional airlines are having trouble staffing the flight decks. Assuming the pilot situation changes they should be able to restore or even grow the regional ops which will boost the flight numbers. The article touches on that point. In any case AA would definitely be pushing the terminal to its limits with 800 flights.

The B and/or C extensions could also be complete by 2028, right? That would be about 10 more gates each, but I assume the 800 flight number in the article didn't include those.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when A North II opens, won't they have to close a few gates at B/C for expansion? 

[TCLT]

12 hours ago, BarrenLucidity said:

International expansion has to be part of this... I wonder if they move most of the Caribbean flights to MIA and pull transatlantic to CLT, away from PHL. They were basically ready to kill PHL according to the NEA JetBlue court filling. 

There's a lot more narrowbody gates at CLT than widebody gates. And there's also a capacity constraint with customs and immigration. I can't imagine we're going to see Caribbean flying replaced with Europe flying on any meaningful scale. Once AA has the XLRs more of that may be possible, but I'd expect that narrowbody Europe flying to supplement the Caribbean network at CLT. There's a lot more demand for the Caribbean than to Europe (especially for leisure flyers) and no hub can beat CLT for moving a lot of people somewhere very cheaply.

 

3 minutes ago, csweet said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when A North II opens, won't they have to close a few gates at B/C for expansion? 

Hmm, probably? I suppose depending on how they phase it they could minimize the need to close B/C gates before new ones are available. But they'd still lose at least a few on the ends of the concourses during construction.

[LKN704]

AA cannot realistically grow international capacity at CLT given the limitations of the current FIS facility. Further growth will have to wait until the Concourse C sterile corridor project is completed. 

Even if AA were to somehow de-hub or significantly downsize PHL (which I do not foresee), you cannot just replicate PHL's transatlantic traffic at CLT. PHL is better suited to capture transatlantic traffic flows, has a much larger international terminal, and has a larger amount of local, corporate international traffic (particularly big pharma) when compared to Charlotte. 

I could be wrong (not really helpful that the Destination CLT site hasn't been updated in years and CLT essentially acts like long-term planning projects are somehow classified intel) but I don't think any progress has been made on the B/C "stingers" beyond the initial planning stage. Both projects will be inherently more complex than say A North given the construction zone will be situated in the middle of the terminal complex. I would be shocked if either extension opened before 2028. 

[csweet]

2 hours ago, TCLT said:

There's a lot more narrowbody gates at CLT than widebody gates. And there's also a capacity constraint with customs and immigration. I can't imagine we're going to see Caribbean flying replaced with Europe flying on any meaningful scale. Once AA has the XLRs more of that may be possible, but I'd expect that narrowbody Europe flying to supplement the Caribbean network at CLT. There's a lot more demand for the Caribbean than to Europe (especially for leisure flyers) and no hub can beat CLT for moving a lot of people somewhere very cheaply.

 

Hmm, probably? I suppose depending on how they phase it they could minimize the need to close B/C gates before new ones are available. But they'd still lose at least a few on the ends of the concourses during construction.

Great point. Weren't there plans to add customs capabilities to some of the C gates too? Would be extremely beneficial for the XLR.

 

[LKN704]

10 minutes ago, csweet said:

Great point. Weren't there plans to add customs capabilities to some of the C gates too? Would be extremely beneficial for the XLR.

 

Yes:

The low C Gates on the eastern side of the concourse will be connected to the FIS area by a new sterile corridor (as seen on the right-hand side of the image above).

[Vitamin_N]

Here's a ranking of the most kid-friendly airports in the U.S.  Charlotte finished #42 out of 45 airports.

[Temeteron]

https://www.ajc.com/travel/hartsfield-jackson-top-us-airport-for-foodies-analysis-finds/BTARY64B7REJTEWJ6ZJ264MHIU/?fbclid=IwAR1evP77i_oru7XJ5ofchQdRm4vDLRGxuoL8Nehc4rI00ubuJUVEQaWLPtY_aem_th_Ab46Ywj6-PjCuxaycaaUutQxikEJvdVLe7J6kotxtyja6Rp5Q-RGHNB2EsbH7yHAK9k&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
 

Top US Airports for foodies.  ATL comes in at #1, CLT at #20.  O’hare was #4.  I’m based at ohare and I’m not sure why they put O’hare so high.  Their food options are horrible! 

[kermit]

9 minutes ago, Temeteron said:

https://www.ajc.com/travel/hartsfield-jackson-top-us-airport-for-foodies-analysis-finds/BTARY64B7REJTEWJ6ZJ264MHIU/?fbclid=IwAR1evP77i_oru7XJ5ofchQdRm4vDLRGxuoL8Nehc4rI00ubuJUVEQaWLPtY_aem_th_Ab46Ywj6-PjCuxaycaaUutQxikEJvdVLe7J6kotxtyja6Rp5Q-RGHNB2EsbH7yHAK9k&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
 

Top US Airports for foodies.  ATL comes in at #1, CLT at #20.  O’hare was #4.  I’m based at ohare and I’m not sure why they put O’hare so high.  Their food options are horrible! 

O’hare = Tortas Frontera!

[Temeteron]

30 minutes ago, kermit said:

O’hare = Tortas Frontera!

Yeah that’s one of the only good places lol

[LKN704]

Just announced today.

[CltFlyer]

Additional to the Caribbean/Latin America increased mentioned above.   This isn't really news, but the 3rd London flight is officially going to be year round.  Per a recent update.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230612-aanw23inc

Between the added Caribbean flights as well as the third London and year round Madrid, it will be a busy winter for customs at Charlotte!

 

Also, an update on the trees in the atrium.  These pictures are a few weeks old, but most of the trees against the moving side walls are staying.  They are just adding more modern and better placed flight information screens on both ends of the atrium

If the airport looks empty it’s because these were taken around 11pm because my flight was delayed until 1:30am!

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by CltFlyer

[LKN704]

AA also just extended Orange/Santa Ana service through the winter holiday season...the flight was originally supposed to end after Labor Day.

10 hours ago, CltFlyer said:

Additional to the Caribbean/Latin America increased mentioned above.   This isn't really news, but the 3rd London flight is officially going to be year round.  Per a recent update.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230612-aanw23inc

Between the added Caribbean flights as well as the third London and year round Madrid, it will be a busy winter for customs at Charlotte!

 

Also, an update on the trees in the atrium.  These pictures are a few weeks old, but most of the trees against the moving side walls are staying.  They are just adding more modern and better placed flight information screens on both ends of the atrium

If the airport looks empty it’s because these were taken around 11pm because my flight was delayed until 1:30am!

I am glad they appear to be keeping the compass signs...adds a very little touch of uniqueness to CLT. It looks like they removed the red letter block signage that used to sit below them and installed more minimal signage, so I assume they would have also removed the compass signs then if they wanted to get rid of them. 

[CLT2014]

I wonder what they plan to show on the large TVs on the ends that are horizontal as opposed to the typical vertical ones that have the flight status. I could see the terminal map being used on some screens. 

I also wonder if they will move those rocking chairs in front of the screens once activated. Otherwise you are going to have a lot of people standing and looking at you LOL. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by CLT2014

[15895]

Not specifically related to Charlotte but JetBlue does fly to CLT. 

I love their new colors. Hope they get some wide bodies one day. 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[elrodvt]

For you pilots or ATC folks, on Wednesday I noticed heavy traffic over our neighborhood to the south east (little ne of Pineville). That happens sometimes but what was surprising was the altitude. I have a hard time estimating it for the big boys but I'm thinking under 3000. Now there was a low overcast in the area (looked to me to be just a layer) and it was at 5pm or so which I assume is a busy time. Were they accepting vfr takeoff in order to get out quickly? Just surprised at the altitude so far out, no return from there and no "Scully spots" . 

Edited June 16, 2023 by elrodvt

[Ilm2clt]

There is a lot of work going on around the perimeter of the airport property (runway project and others). I understand that the River District is going to tie in at West Blvd, near 485. I also understand that West Blvd will be relocated at the south border of the airport due to the new runway.  Does anyone have a current map of what this realignment will look like? or a link to a map?

 TIA

[TCLT]

24 minutes ago, Ilm2clt said:

There is a lot of work going on around the perimeter of the airport property (runway project and others). I understand that the River District is going to tie in at West Blvd, near 485. I also understand that West Blvd will be relocated at the south border of the airport due to the new runway.  Does anyone have a current map of what this realignment will look like? or a link to a map?

 TIA

There’s probably a better/more recent map out there but this doc gives a good idea of what the road realignment looks like:

https://downloads.ctfassets.net/jaw4bomip9l3/7uXSM106WtPJ97O4b41D4Z/d9213e2d85d9959c3087e88b66487834/CLT_ACDS_-_FINAL_Website_Size.pdf

edit: There is a more recent one. The documents from the EA for the fourth parallel runway. Specifically this appendix:

https://www.airportprojects.net/clt-capacity-ea/wp-content/uploads/sites/38/2022/03/Appendix-M-Addendum-to-the-Final-Capacity-EA-1.pdf

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by TCLT
better source document

[tozmervo]

7 hours ago, TCLT said:

There’s probably a better/more recent map out there but this doc gives a good idea of what the road realignment looks like:

https://downloads.ctfassets.net/jaw4bomip9l3/7uXSM106WtPJ97O4b41D4Z/d9213e2d85d9959c3087e88b66487834/CLT_ACDS_-_FINAL_Website_Size.pdf

edit: There is a more recent one. The documents from the EA for the fourth parallel runway. Specifically this appendix:

https://www.airportprojects.net/clt-capacity-ea/wp-content/uploads/sites/38/2022/03/Appendix-M-Addendum-to-the-Final-Capacity-EA-1.pdf

Are those the final designations for the new runway? 19 and 01 seem odd. Are there other airport precedents with four parallel runways? 

[CltFlyer]

26 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

Are those the final designations for the new runway? 19 and 01 seem odd. Are there other airport precedents with four parallel runways? 

A few hours down the road actually!  

ATL has 5 parallels- They are all oriented exactly the same but the numbers are changed slightly to alleviate any confusion.  

8L/26R

8R/26L

09L/27R

09R/27L

10/28

 

Its hard to see but they are paired as such

North Side: 

08L/26R- Arrivals. 

08R/26L- Departures

 

South Side: 

09L/27R- Departures

09R/27L - Arrivals

10/28- Arrivals

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by CltFlyer

[tozmervo]

13 minutes ago, CltFlyer said:

A few hours down the road actually!  

ATL has 5 parallels- They are all oriented exactly the same but the numbers are changed slightly to alleviate any confusion.  

Neat! Thanks. CPG was similarly frustrated by the inconsistency 

 

[LKN704]

AA's recent expansion to Latin America and the Caribbean has now loaded and I took advantage of the slow day at work to look at the international arrival schedule for this winter:

• 1:05PM: LHR (772)
• 2:20PM: FRA (772)
• 2:35PM: MAD (772)
• 2:50PM: MUC (772)
• 3:15PM: MBJ (738)
• 3:20PM: CUN (A321), ELH (CR7), GGT (A319)
• 4:10PM: LHR (772)
• 5:00PM: CUN (A321), CZM (A320), MBJ (738), MUC (A350), GCM (738), MHH (E175), PLS (A321), BZE (738)
• 6:10PM: CUN (A321)
• 6:30PM: LHR (772)
• 7:10PM: CUN (A321), SXM (A319), MBJ (738), POP (738), CUR (738), SJD (A321), MEX (738), LIR (738), SJO (738), UVF (A319), SKB (A319), GCM (738), PLS (738)
• 8:59PM: CUN (A321), MBJ (738), BGI (738), GND (738)
• 9:00PM: ANU (A319), SXM (A319)

FIS will be a complete zoo during that 7:10PM arrival window, which is particularly tight with thirteen international arrivals, the maximum possible at any given time given CLT only has 13 gates at present that are connected to the FIS. If that 6:30PM London arrival is late (even by just a few minutes), the whole operation could potentially go haywire. 

I don't have the specific numbers (too lazy to look right now), but I believe Charlotte is the second-largest gateway by destinations served for a single airline to the Caribbean after Miami. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by LKN704

[DavieNative]

On 6/16/2023 at 9:57 AM, TCLT said:

There’s probably a better/more recent map out there but this doc gives a good idea of what the road realignment looks like:

https://downloads.ctfassets.net/jaw4bomip9l3/7uXSM106WtPJ97O4b41D4Z/d9213e2d85d9959c3087e88b66487834/CLT_ACDS_-_FINAL_Website_Size.pdf

edit: There is a more recent one. The documents from the EA for the fourth parallel runway. Specifically this appendix:

https://www.airportprojects.net/clt-capacity-ea/wp-content/uploads/sites/38/2022/03/Appendix-M-Addendum-to-the-Final-Capacity-EA-1.pdf

 

How up to date is this map? Looks like they're still planning on expanding B and C as well as building an island terminal. 

[TCLT]

1 hour ago, DavieNative said:

How up to date is this map? Looks like they're still planning on expanding B and C as well as building an island terminal. 

That document is dated January 2022.