Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[Jernigan]

Retail needs 30k heads in beds downtown.

We don’t have 30.

Its math, dummies.   

[orlandouprise]

28 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

Retail needs 30k heads in beds downtown.

We don’t have 30.

Its math, dummies.   

How many do we have ? how far are we from this magic number?

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, Uncommon said:

You wanna find it, so do your own legwork. Otherwise, stop whining.

Who said I wanna find it? I don't care one way or the other.

I merely challenged Spenser to provide some sort of source for his claims.

That's his responsibility, not mine.

But since you interjected yourself into something that didn't concern you, you can do the legwork instead.

Otherwise, stop whining. 

[JFW657]

29 minutes ago, orlandouprise said:

How many do we have ? how far are we from this magic number?

According to City-Data, there are 20, 326 residents or 5,559 residents per square mile over a 3.656 square mile area.

[Jernigan]

50 minutes ago, orlandouprise said:

How many do we have ? how far are we from this magic number?

 

Probably 5-10 years away depending on Creative Villages impact 

[AndyPok1]

I find it hard to believe we're only at 16k.  I bet those numbers are underestimating the amount of people living in some of the bigger apartments.  Many 2/2 3/3.5s have 3-5 people in them.

@smileguy put it best on the last page.  The biggest issue downtown retail has is that there is no money business in downtown Orlando.  Yes we have the code to create ground-floor retail, but as long as its priced to make large profits for the developers, its going to sit empty or have a lot of failed businesses.  The old Pipers at the Plaza had an 18k rent before it was split in half.  The margins are just soooo slim.  I think it was @popsiclebrandon that said years ago that basically the reason that we have so many empty storefronts is because the developers can make more money off of tax writeoffs for an unrented storefront, so they fiduciarily have to set the rent higher than that amount, and well... that rent is too damn high.  If the money were local or had stake in the growth of downtown, they'd sacrifice some of that money for vibrancy, but we just don't have that situation.

[Uncommon]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

Who said I wanna find it? I don't care one way or the other.

I merely challenged Spenser to provide some sort of source for his claims.

That's his responsibility, not mine.

But since you interjected yourself into something that didn't concern you, you can do the legwork instead.

Otherwise, stop whining. 

This is a public forum. There’s no such thing as “interjecting,” as you embarrassingly assert.
You claim “you don’t care one way or another,” yet you literally begged Spenser to recount his thoughts from memory, as some way to appease the likes of you. Like I said, if you’re so desperate for that information, do your own research. You’re not worth the keystrokes.

[Jernigan]

2 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

I find it hard to believe we're only at 16k.  I bet those numbers are underestimating the amount of people living in some of the bigger apartments.  Many 2/2 3/3.5s have 3-5 people in them.

@smileguy put it best on the last page.  The biggest issue downtown retail has is that there is no money business in downtown Orlando.  Yes we have the code to create ground-floor retail, but as long as its priced to make large profits for the developers, its going to sit empty or have a lot of failed businesses.  The old Pipers at the Plaza had an 18k rent before it was split in half.  The margins are just soooo slim.  I think it was @popsiclebrandon that said years ago that basically the reason that we have so many empty storefronts is because the developers can make more money off of tax writeoffs for an unrented storefront, so they fiduciarily have to set the rent higher than that amount, and well... that rent is too damn high.  If the money were local or had stake in the growth of downtown, they'd sacrifice some of that money for vibrancy, but we just don't have that situation.

You’re right - the 16k was 2016 (but the graphic is from the latest DDB profile).  
 

So probably in line with JFWs numbers.   Still got years to go.

This of course is talking about national chains - where rent wouldn’t be the biggest factor.   Rent might be keeping some entrepreneurs with  “urban bookstores” from opening and subsequently closing a year later I guess.

 

[orlandouprise]

Off topic...Is there any chance T2, Zoi, Summit Raddisson get built now? These are the 3 towers i have been waiting for to break...

[idroveazamboni]

https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/ex/sustainablecitiescollective/7-reasons-why-high-rises-kill-livability/561536/

[jack]

15 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

Austin, Portland, KC, Minneapolis, San Diego, San Antonio...

Interesting list. Austin is a tough one because of UT, its a state capitol, and the amazing job growth within white collar jobs. It is very aspirational though. 

[idroveazamboni]

https://www.thecollegefix.com/feminist-geography-professor-argues-tall-buildings-are-sexist/?fbclid=IwAR0M9nMJGqNmR3vyYyKBZyjWbaG9CDH2jv6spSRAlC-aW_cPSuMeQ9iJqmY

[JFW657]

6 minutes ago, idroveazamboni said:

https://www.thecollegefix.com/feminist-geography-professor-argues-tall-buildings-are-sexist/?fbclid=IwAR0M9nMJGqNmR3vyYyKBZyjWbaG9CDH2jv6spSRAlC-aW_cPSuMeQ9iJqmY

Hmmmmmmm...... I wonder if that philosophy had any bearing on the design of these buildings.....

https://www.fastcompany.com/3021945/5-buildings-that-look-like-vaginas

Of course, she might have a point in some cases...

[codypet]

How dare you miss Florida's greatest example.

Courtesy of How I Met Your Mother

[orlandouprise]

7 hours ago, jack said:

Interesting list. Austin is a tough one because of UT, its a state capitol, and the amazing job growth within white collar jobs. It is very aspirational though. 

Another one for the list is Nashville...

 

My dream is for Orlando to one day become a new version of Austin.  Tourism will always be king here but I would love a 20% white collar / tech workforce. 
 

 

 

[smileguy]

19 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

Another one for the list is Nashville...

My dream is for Orlando to one day become a new version of Austin.  Tourism will always be king here but I would love a 20% white collar / tech workforce. 

This piqued my interest, and I wanted to find out what our current distribution is, so I checked with the EDC - these are Pandemic-impacted numbers - https://business.orlando.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/02/Employment-by-Industry.pdf

Here is an older graph, https://news.orlando.org/blog/q3-2019-orlando-economic-update/ 

Depending on the breakdown in each category, we could conceivably be close to 20%  white collar between Professional/business services, Financial, and information.  I think a percentage of the other categories would also contribute to that overall number.

 

 

 

[AmIReal]

7 hours ago, smileguy said:

This piqued my interest, and I wanted to find out what our current distribution is, so I checked with the EDC - these are Pandemic-impacted numbers - https://business.orlando.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/02/Employment-by-Industry.pdf

Here is an older graph, https://news.orlando.org/blog/q3-2019-orlando-economic-update/ 

Depending on the breakdown in each category, we could conceivably be close to 20%  white collar between Professional/business services, Financial, and information.  I think a percentage of the other categories would also contribute to that overall number.

 

 

 

Certainly a significant portion of Total Government and Education and Health Services would fit the white collar desciption.

[orange87]

What's the story on this lot(s)? This looks like it's just begging to have something built there.

[spenser1058]

14 minutes ago, orange87 said:

What's the story on this lot(s)? This looks like it's just begging to have something built there.

Doesn’t that belong to the county?

[codypet]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Doesn’t that belong to the county?

yes.  Its employees of the admin building.

[Jerry95]

Looks like City of Orlando has a new MPB portal:

https://www.orlando.gov/Building-Development/Planning-Approvals/View-Open-Development-Applications-MPB

Development projects are shown on a map view with a page for each project. Attachments can be found on each project page.

[AmIReal]

The map addition is nice, but it may be off a bit. The CRA Affordable Homes is mapped to the DPAC location instead of Jernigan Ave. 

[Naqiy90]

Orlando Sentinel is officially leaving their downtown offices. Hopefully it expedites redevelopment of the parcel. Sad to see them go however!

[elefants]

26 minutes ago, Naqiy90 said:

Orlando Sentinel is officially leaving their downtown offices. Hopefully it expedites redevelopment of the parcel. Sad to see them go however!

While I love the potential of a few tall buildings, I always drive past and notice the trees.   There could be a nice park there if they decide to leave the green stuff and get rid of the concrete.

[Naqiy90]

10 minutes ago, elefants said:

While I love the potential of a few tall buildings, I always drive past and notice the trees.   There could be a nice park there if they decide to leave the green stuff and get rid of the concrete.

Seems like another downtown park would be competing with Lake Eola, personally I want them to expand Lake Eola for more downtown green space, the paths in particular need to be widened, it is always super crowded! Trees are always great of course, we need shade trees everywhere!