Downtown Orlando Project Discussion

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, orange87 said:

I couldn't tell because of the paywall. Did they say where in downtown they're planning to move?

I’m in the same boat. Someone who subscribes will have to tell us.

[aent]

6,218-square-foot office at Eola Centre at 200 E. Robinson St. The new space has room for 30 employees — the still-growing MedShorts has 13 locally right now,

[codypet]

13 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Looks like they are re-doing the tanks at the downtown Colonial and Orange 7-11.   All pumps are fenced off and shut down currently. 

I had seen the lane closed with a crane and my coworker said he thought it was just them changing the sign.  That's a lot more work than that.  Think they're going to the 5 grades of fuel per pump like other 7-11s are doing?

[JFW657]

Please tell us that it hasn't affected The Big Gulp fountain or the hot dog roller!!!!  

[ucfpatriot18]

Anyone know what’s going on with this? Site is located on the corner of Amelia and Magnolia.  

[smileguy]

1 hour ago, ucfpatriot18 said:

Anyone know what’s going on with this? Site is located on the corner of Amelia and Magnolia.  

On Sentinel property? That was quick!

[codypet]

There's another banner like that on the Classifieds building as well.

https://albu.biz/

Uh oh!  That's all really suburban looking.

Edited September 2, 2020 by codypet

[JFW657]

I see from their website, they did the Amway Center and the Citrus Bowl renovation.

 

 

[idroveazamboni]

Probably wouldn't work in Orlando but interesting. 
 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/03/08/closing-central-madrid-to-cars-resulted-in-9-5-boost-to-retail-spending-finds-bank-analysis/

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by idroveazamboni

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, idroveazamboni said:

Probably wouldn't work in Orlando but interesting. 
 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2019/03/08/closing-central-madrid-to-cars-resulted-in-9-5-boost-to-retail-spending-finds-bank-analysis/

 

Pedestrian plazas are a mixed bag. Some, like Nicollet Mall in Minneapolis (think where Mary Tyler Moore threw her beret in the air) have done pretty well; others, like Franklin St. in Tampa, have struggled:

https://www.cltampa.com/news-views/news-features/article/20724890/long-hard-road-the-evolution-of-tampas-franklin-street
 

From Creative Loafing

What seems to be the key is to keep trying different variations until you get a formula that works for your town. Our local government prefers just to pretend downtown doesn’t exist unless a billionaire wants to build something, so we’ll probably have to wait for leadership that actually has an interest.
 

https://www.cltampa.com/news-views/news-features/article/20724890/long-hard-road-the-evolution-of-tampas-franklin-street

 

[idroveazamboni]

Downtown Orlando doesn’t have the population density to support this. Need to be at least 10K per sq Mile to make this work pre-Covid 19. Now not sure how many people want to go to a crowded place like this. Maybe  Downtown Orlando lack of population density isn’t so bad. 

[Jernigan]

3 hours ago, idroveazamboni said:

Downtown Orlando doesn’t have the population density to support this. Need to be at least 10K per sq Mile to make this work pre-Covid 19. Now not sure how many people want to go to a crowded place like this. Maybe  Downtown Orlando lack of population density isn’t so bad. 

No no - Orlando isn’t a unicorn because Buddy Dyer doesn’t want it to be 

[spenser1058]

12 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

No no - Orlando isn’t a unicorn because Buddy Dyer doesn’t want it to be 

And it won’t ever be if our leaders don’t develop a vision of what they wish we could be. It reminds me of “I take no responsibility for anything” from another politician. We can be better than this and we have been. It’s time to be better again.

[orlandouprise]

MOGA - Make Orlando Great Again!

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, orlandouprise said:

MOGA - Make Orlando Great Again!

Maybe we can get a hat from @orange87!

[JFW657]

5 hours ago, Jernigan said:

No no - Orlando isn’t a unicorn because Buddy Dyer doesn’t want it to be 

Do I detect a note of sarcasm ?   

[prahaboheme]

9 hours ago, idroveazamboni said:

Downtown Orlando doesn’t have the population density to support this. Need to be at least 10K per sq Mile to make this work pre-Covid 19. Now not sure how many people want to go to a crowded place like this. Maybe  Downtown Orlando lack of population density isn’t so bad. 

DTO supported retail in the late 90s with a lower population density than it does today.  
Church St Station was arguably a pedestrian plaza given that it was closed to vehicular traffic several days a week.

IMO it really comes down to a thoughtful approach to ensuring that there is a mix of businesses to support it and a city that is activity engaged in keeping pedestrian zones thriving.

Miami Beach has done this successfully with Florida’s most famous example of this.

Santa Monica has done the same.

A recently revitalized pedestrian zone is downtown crossing in Boston — long neglected under the Menino administration  and revitalized under Marty Walsh. 

[prahaboheme]

On 9/5/2020 at 9:35 AM, spenser1058 said:

Pedestrian plazas are a mixed bag. Some, like Nicollet Mall in Minneapolis (think where Mary Tyler Moore threw her beret in the air) have done pretty well; others, like Franklin St. in Tampa, have struggled:

https://www.cltampa.com/news-views/news-features/article/20724890/long-hard-road-the-evolution-of-tampas-franklin-street
 

From Creative Loafing

What seems to be the key is to keep trying different variations until you get a formula that works for your town. Our local government prefers just to pretend downtown doesn’t exist unless a billionaire wants to build something, so we’ll probably have to wait for leadership that actually has an interest.
 

https://www.cltampa.com/news-views/news-features/article/20724890/long-hard-road-the-evolution-of-tampas-franklin-street

 

Franklin in Tampa was really not a great choice for a pedestrian mall. Some of the cross streets on Franklin would have been better suited for this purpose. Since Tampa is stepping up it’s game these days, perhaps there is an opportunity to do this.

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

DTO supported retail in the late 90s with a lower population density than it does today.  
Church St Station was arguably a pedestrian plaza given that it was closed to vehicular traffic several days a week.

IMO it really comes down to a thoughtful approach to ensuring that there is a mix of businesses to support it and a city that is activity engaged in keeping pedestrian zones thriving.

Miami Beach has done this successfully with Florida’s most famous example of this.

Santa Monica has done the same.

A recently revitalized pedestrian zone is downtown crossing in Boston — long neglected under the Menino administration  and revitalized under Marty Walsh. 

@prahaboheme brings up a great point. As successful as Miami Beach’s Lincoln Road Mall has been, even now they’re doing some changes and refurbishments. It keeps things fresh, interesting and folks coming back.

That’s what has totally gone by the wayside in downtown Orlando, not just in Church Street but along the Orange Ave. core as well. @popsiclebrandon noted a similar thought recently about Thornton Park. To keep folks coming back, there have to be new ideas and things to visit.

It’s a concept folks like Thomas Chatmon seem to have no interest in facilitating.

[prahaboheme]

I was in Cork Ireland last year and was particularly impressed by their pedestrian zones which permeate out from the city center.  And they are expanding...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cork-to-be-reimagined-as-haven-for-cyclists-and-pedestrians-under-new-plan-1.4316067%3fmode=amp

[spenser1058]

Adding bike trails and bike lanes are a great thing and one area the city has made good progress with. To facilitate the trails, though, the DDB needs to find out what’s necessary to attract a bike store downtown (not only to sell and service the equipment but also to foster a neighborhood biking community and promote cycling activities - it’s not an accident WG has had as many as three bike stores at once along the WOT through downtown) and to make it easier to navigate along downtown streets (hint: brick streets are anathema to many road bikes).

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by spenser1058

[idroveazamboni]

3 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

DTO supported retail in the late 90s with a lower population density than it does today.  
Church St Station was arguably a pedestrian plaza given that it was closed to vehicular traffic several days a week.

IMO it really comes down to a thoughtful approach to ensuring that there is a mix of businesses to support it and a city that is activity engaged in keeping pedestrian zones thriving.

Miami Beach has done this successfully with Florida’s most famous example of this.

Santa Monica has done the same.

A recently revitalized pedestrian zone is downtown crossing in Boston — long neglected under the Menino administration  and revitalized under Marty Walsh. 

Santa Monica population density is @10,740/ sq mi, Miami Beach is @11,550/ sq mi. These places are way more dense than anywhere in Orlando including Downtown. 

[spenser1058]

31 minutes ago, idroveazamboni said:

Santa Monica population density is @10,740/ sq mi, Miami Beach is @11,550/ sq mi. These places are way more dense than anywhere in Orlando including Downtown. 

South Eola is currently 12,250/sq mile. Given the towers we’re still adding, I don’t think you’re keeping up to date. In any event, it’s humorous how the apologists for the administration’s poor job in attracting retail change the required numbers whenever the lack of progress is questioned. What we know is that every year over the past decade the number of downtown residents has increased while the number of retail establishments has decreased. Just think, at this rate by the time we hit maximum build out downtown Buddy will have achieved zero retail - we’ll have to build him a statue!

Where I will agree is that no, downtown will never be Madrid. I have never expected or suggested Millenia-type retail downtown. What we should expect is steady progress on the level of service and middle-income retail.

Edited September 7, 2020 by spenser1058

[prahaboheme]

Exactly —

DTO has some of the higher population density in all of Florida. 
I stand by the comparisons I made, however, if another example is needed, maybe look to Greenville SC, Santa Fe NM, among others. It’s not just about population.

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

South Eola is currently 12,250/sq mile. Given the towers we’re still adding, I don’t think you’re keeping up to date. In any event, it’s humorous how the apologists for the administration’s poor job in attracting retail change the required numbers whenever the lack of progress is questioned. What we know is that every year over the past decade the number of downtown residents has increased while the number of retail establishments has decreased. Just think, at this rate by the time we hit maximum build out downtown Buddy will have achieved zero retail - we’ll have to build him a statue!

Where I will agree is that no, downtown will never be Madrid. I have never expected or suggested Millenia-type retail downtown. What we should expect is steady progress on the level of service and middle-income retail.

I wonder spenser, have you ever worked in what is referred to as the real world? I know you have regaled us with your exploits in the world of higher government service, but have you ever been in a decision making role in a for profit business? You seem to have a great appreciation for the retail industry and their decision making process in choosing their locations, but have you ever actually been involved in any aspect of that decision... just asking.

I've posted this same question over the past year- most recently yesterday in another thread- and not once has anyone ever answered... what specific type retail do you, or other posters who keep railing on about retail,  want and where specifically do you think it should be located.  This is not a "challenge" nor am I trying to fight about the issue. But if an person is so studied on the subject I assume you have thought it thorough and you can provide insight to the rest of us.

5 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

DTO supported retail in the late 90s with a lower population density than it does today.

Yes, and they all failed. Lesson learned.