Metropolitan, Midtown Redevelopment

[DigitalSky]

I was REALLY hoping for a Barnes and Noble or a Borders, but I will certainly be very very happy with Home Depot Expo, Target, Best Buy, Marshalls and Staples.

Hopefully a book store will locate in one of the other projects around, but this was the best bet for a big box chain.

I'm very excited about this, as it will eliminate a drive out 5-10 miles [for those people who live in town and shop at those places occassionally]. It also will attract some people to look at living uptown. Although it is a little odd in my view, many people do think about living near their work, but do like to live near major retail.

Hmm.. Here's to hoping a bookstore will join this project or will come to the area. The closest [chain/big box] Bookstores to uptown are SouthPark and Northlake

Edited July 25, 2006 by cantnot

[SmellyCat]

I think they definitely missed the mark with that store mix. Putting Marshall's there is a joke. Perhaps they'll add a Family Dollar and Value City Furniture as well.

Edited July 26, 2006 by SmellyCat

[Norm2]

Target/Home Depot/Best Buy etc ace deals to build stores together. Marshals is part of that deal i do believe. they are building the same exact store in the River Gate center in SW Charlotte.

[mallguy]

Will we see a "Marshall's effect" in this development, inversely just as we're seeing a "Neiman Marcus effect" at SouthPark with a cluster of high-end stores and upper-income customers following NM to the mall?

[49er]

big box stores attract high and low income shoppers. I fail to see this as a problem with the development. Most rich people still love a good bargain

[mallguy]

big box stores attract high and low income shoppers. I fail to see this as a problem with the development. Most rich people still love a good bargain

I think the developers are going against the general trend in Charlotte mixed-use developments, which all (except for Midtown) seem to have mid-price to high-end stores and restaurants in them, especially uptown. 400 N. Church, the Radcliffe, the Lofts at Morrison and the other developments around SouthPark all seem to be good examples of that. As a property owner in a mixed-use development, I wouldn't want a Burlington Coat Factory or the like in my development; even Target is sort of pushing it for me, at least. Earth Fare, wine stores, Starbucks, etc. are all somewhat more desirable than Marshall's, at least for me.

Edited July 26, 2006 by mallguy

[turbocraig]

I don't see what the issue is with a Marshall's. You only have to look at Cotswald to see that they attract all types of demographics (yes, even the "desirable" higher income ones). While it is a discount store, they do sell a lot of upper-scale brand name merchandise and their stores are usually in moderate to upper-middle class shopping centers. I wouldn't consider Marshall's a black mark on this development at all. It'll certainly add to the variety of offerings and I can assure you that I'll be there. Am I desirable? Who's to say...

[atlrvr]

Well, there is a Marshall's at 500 Boylsten St. in Boston which is 1 block west of Hermes, 1 block south of the Zegna boutique and and 1 block east of Copley Square, surrouned by the most expensive nieghborhood in the entire country outside of Manhattan and California.....I don't think the Back Bay has been hurt too much by Marshall's presence.

Retailers go where the income is, regardless of what the general populous preceives as the target demographic. Per "The Millionaire Next Door", the most common car owned by a millionaire is a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and a majority have never paid more than $300 for a business suit.

It's a pretty safe bet that the guy getting his Ferrari valet parked at Metropolitan Midtown SHOULD be shopping at Marshall's because his persoanl wealth is likely next to nothing.

Edited July 26, 2006 by atlrvr

[voyager12]

I am poor and shop at Marshalls and love it! Pick up great brand names for nothing. My parents are loaded and shop there more than me. Go figure.

[mallguy]

I'm thinking more from the point of view of a prospective high-priced property owner, Marshall's isn't as desirable as some other retailers. One of my co-workers had been thinking about buying a condo at Midtown but decided to look elsewhere after seeing the Marshall's coming in.

[voyager12]

I think that attitude may be more reflective of the individual's mindset. What is their opinion of Target? Or Home Depot Expo Design Center? Are those patrons acceptable? Several upscale condo projects in this area feature midrange retail or an attractive mix. Where do you draw the line?

[Neo]

In Chicago, close to where I used to live, is a Marshalls. I mention this because about three blocks away to the north is the zip code 60611 which I believe has been listed several times as one of the most expensive zip code in America, an area known to Chicagoans as the Gold Coast district.

I shop at Marshalls and TJ Maxx regularly and everytime I go it never fails that I see quite a few higher end cars in the parking lot. Everything from new BMW 5 series to S class Mercedes and Hummers.

Rich people are very much just into getting a good deal or paying less for the same quality or brand of goods than middle to lower class individuals. I honestly think the Marshalls at this location will do quite well, just as the one in the location in Chicago I mentioned has. I believe the location of the Marshalls in Chicago that I am referring to is at Ohio and Rush on the lower level below a Linens'n'Things (which seems to be a common pairing).

[abbitt]

its retail and it's near uptown, isnt' this what everyone wanted? i like the idea of a marshalls, and i guarentee it will be very successful. if you're holding out for something along the lines of a barneys, then you'll probably be waiting a very long time.

[mallguy]

There is also a Syms on Park Avenue in Manhattan in the wealthy 10022 zip code. Large cities such as NYC and Chicago have high-end and low-end uses close together. People in sprawling Charlotte might not be used to such types of mixes.

My co-worker looked at Midtown, and then decided that there are better condo developments on the market and coming soon. Midtown is expensive, next to the Cherry neighborhood (for whatever reason, is viewed as a less desirable area by people- I don't know why) and has a Marshall's. Plus Uptown isn't really within walking distance. In light of all the new condo developments coming uptown, with shorter commutes, possibly lower prices, no Cherry neighborhood and no Marshall's, I just think that the total circumstances for Midtown will make it less competitive; the Marshall's is just one more strike against it.

[monsoon]

They need to cut their prices by about 50%, then it would be very competitive. I am not sure why people think that retail is going to work in this location. Two failed malls with every type of store imaginable have failed to work there, so I don't think repackaging it into a fancy mixed use development is going to do much for this idea.

Edit, make that 3 malls.

[atlrvr]

One thing to consider is the outward migration of box stores. Intown (southeast) shoppers used to be served by Ridgeway/Gold Circle/Target at Independence and Idlewild.....now that store has moved about 5 miles further out to Hwy 51. The Best Buy at Independence and Margret Wallace will be moving out to 485. Home Depot is fairly well represented close in, but they will have to compete with a new closer in Lowe's.

[mallguy]

I think the retail side should do OK- the condo side won't, due to the factors I point out above.

[turbocraig]

I think the big difference will be the mix of stores people will actually go to. Midtown was abysmal. Burlington Coat Factory and a host of other C-grade retailers? C'mon. The highest foot traffic was at the DMV office. I'm not sure what the mix was in decades past, but I can't believe they kept the lights on as long as they did. Anything with a Target is gonna draw big numbers.

[orulz]

I don't see how Marshall's is a strike against this place at all.

My great-uncle lives in a classy, expensive (probably more expensive than 95% of the condos at Metropolitan) building in a wealthy area on North Lakeshore Drive in Chicago, and he loves shopping for bargains at the Marshall's in his neighborhood.

Even assuming that the people who would live at Metropolitan won't want to shop at Marshall's, how on earth could Marshall's mere existence be a negative? I'd say most people in this world don't know or care enough about the "classes" of retail to make any such distinction whatsoever.

And the Target will be just so undeniably convenient...

[reverbandwhiskey]

That is a good point, Who really wants to live on top of a mall and a Target?

Think of the unpleasantness of getting in and out of your paqrking lot comes xmas time.....

[Miesian Corners]

I think the tenant mix is great. Staples will do well, since the nearest Office Depot on South Blvd is tiny. Marshall's? Yeah, I live in 28211 which is a pretty wealthy Zip Code (not because of my income, mind you) and Cotswold Shopping Center has a Marshall's, Storehouse, and Rack Room Shoes. The place is packed all the time. Best Buy is also a great addition, as the closest place to go to buy electronics is the Sprawl Mart on Wilkinson Blvd.

[monsoon]

I think the big difference will be the mix of stores people will actually go to. Midtown was abysmal. Burlington Coat Factory and a host of other C-grade retailers? C'mon. ......

This location has also had a Belks, Iveys, Harris Teeter, a large book store (I forget the name but people mentioned wanting a Borders and B&N), GNC, Sandwich Construction Company, Charlotte Town Cinemas, Record Bar, and many others that I don't remember now. All closed and none what would be considered C-grade retailers.

[turbocraig]

With the exception of Belk and Ivey's, nothing on that list is something I'd drive out of my way for (and apparently no one else did either). I'm sure the lure of nearby SouthPark spelled the end of the Midtown Belk and Ivey's and the remaining retailers weren't enough of a draw on their own to keep the mall afloat. And considering the closest Target and Best Buys are miles away in the burbs (and HD Expo the only one around at all), I think this go-round will be much different. The captive audience of office workers and condo owners won't hurt either.

[appatone]

I have to say that recently we have seen Best Buy open more smaller stores in a lot of places rather than just a couple of monolithic stores in key locations. The Best Buys in Rock Hill and Monroe are a far cry from the Biggies in Pineville and Matthews and IMO much nicer. I was in the market for a TV. Trying to get help in the Pineville store was like pulling teeth, the place is huge and packed with people, the parking lot is messy and full of carts. On the other hand, I went to the Monroe store. It’s smaller and while the selection isn't quite as extensive it is certainly decent. The main difference was that the store was much smaller, cleaner (admittedly it is brand new, but it's also smaller and easier to look after) and there were always people around, available, and more than helpful in answering questions. You didn’t have to track down an employee there. The store had less of a crowd and the ease of getting in and out was much nicer. I'm thinking that is what this Best Buy will be like. After visiting a smaller BB I have to say that I doubt I'll go back to another Pineville/Matthews style one.

I also have to say in reference to the Monroe and Rock Hill shopping centers that this BB, Target, Marshall's bundle is popular in all of the new strip malls opening across the suburbs. Some of the other guys that follow on the heels of these three are usually Books-a-Million (so if there is room I wouldn't be surprised for this one), Qdoba, and of course McAlister's Deli. Just a heads up on what I'm seeing as a trend.

Edited July 26, 2006 by appatone

[AuLukey]

I also have to say in reference to the Monroe and Rock Hill shopping centers that this BB, Target, Marshall's bundle is popular in all of the new strip malls opening across the suburbs. Some of the other guys that follow on the heels of these three are usually Books-a-Million (so if there is room I wouldn't be surprised for this one), Qdoba, and of course McAlister's Deli. Just a heads up on what I'm seeing as a trend.

They are also adding a Supertarget/Best Buy/Marshalls in Concord/Kannapolis off of 85. They are due to open later this year. Seems that with one you will seemingly always get at least of the others now. In University City they are all within a few blocks of each other, although Marshalls is next to a Circuit City there.