Metropolitan, Midtown Redevelopment

[atlrvr]

I'd like to see Books-A-Million go there....that would leave B&N and Borders to take more urban locations.....I'm envisioning B&N inside the loop and Borders at Elizabeth Ave.

[sfmartin]

I'd really like to see a large independent bookseller in uptown ... like the Tattered Cover in Denver; get away from the whole 'same experience in every store' model.

[49er]

i dont think its comparing apples to apples when this development is compared to a failed enclosed mall from decades ago. That was a completely different style of development that was fighting the trend of retail flowing away from the city. The metropolitan comes at a time when there is renewed interest in the inner city and thousands of people moving into the general neighborhood within a few miles of the site. I really see no comparison other than the site itself.

i have to say though, the condos are indeed overpriced.

[atlrvr]

Here was an article posted yesterday on WCNC.com. Take it for what its worth.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/stories/wcn...os.6e8f832.html

[voyager12]

I am looking forward to strolling over from Dilworth. Target will be a godsend. No more hauling all the way down to Pineville!

[abbitt]

no kidding, not having to go all the way to pineville to do regular shopping is wonderful. i'm really looking forward to the best buy.

[reverbandwhiskey]

As much as I hate Target, it is good to see a closer option to reduce lengthy car trips.

[ElricSeven]

Although I think they're overpriced, I hope they have great success. Selfishly, that only makes it that much easier to sell my place some day when I need to. I can just hear it now. "Sure the MetMidtown's got some nice amenities, but it is still way out there away from Trade and Tryon AND it is 20% more expensive than what I'm asking."

[mallguy]

When was there a Belk's at Midtown Square? So there was a big uptown one, then a small one less than a mile away, and then the SouthPark one? Maybe the chain would consider returning to the Midtown development? Belk is doing some outdoor shopping centers these days.

Seems like overkill- like the three in Greenville, SC all within about three miles of each other (downtown, Lewis Plaza and McAlister Square), which have now all closed.

[monsoon]

When was there a Belk's at Midtown Square? So there was a big uptown one, then a small one less than a mile away, and then the SouthPark one? Maybe the chain would consider returning to the Midtown development? Belk is doing some outdoor shopping centers these days.

Seems like overkill- like the three in Greenville, SC all within about three miles of each other (downtown, Lewis Plaza and McAlister Square), which have now all closed.

There was Belks there when the mall opened as the first enclosed mall in the Carolinas in 1959 and remained there until 1981-82. It was known as Charlottetown mall in those days. And yes there was a Belk downtown which was being neglected by Belk.

The mall was then redeveloped into what was known as Outlet Square. This is when Belks & Ivey's left the mall and places like Burlington Coat factory outlet showed up. The bookstore that opened there was similar to Books a Million.

The mall was then redeveloped again sometime in the 90s into Midtown Square. I am not sure how it differed from Outlet Square as I had quit going there by then.

[habarr]

I'm curious if there are other buyers on this forum. I was one of the "lucky" lottery "winners". I must say that the marketing was EXTREMELY powerful! Once I had the "lucky opportunity" to buy, I felt like I would be an idiot not get in on the ground floor of this once in a lifetime project. So I committed to it. If there are other buyers, I would love to hear what kind of deals you got. I have to admit that I paid about $400/ sq. ft. My unit is a 2br/2.5ba roof top and it has a city view. I'm hoping in 2008 Charlotte will be THE city to live!! Did I get lucky? Or am I a "victim" of great marketing? One justification on the $400/sq. ft thing is that it will take 2 years to complete. So in 2006 dollars, at a 6% growth it's really closer to $355/sq. ft. Still not cheap.

[ElricSeven]

I'm curious if there are other buyers on this forum. I was one of the "lucky" lottery "winners". I must say that the marketing was EXTREMELY powerful! Once I had the "lucky opportunity" to buy, I felt like I would be an idiot not get in on the ground floor of this once in a lifetime project. So I committed to it. If there are other buyers, I would love to hear what kind of deals you got. I have to admit that I paid about $400/ sq. ft. My unit is a 2br/2.5ba roof top and it has a city view. I'm hoping in 2008 Charlotte will be THE city to live!! Did I get lucky? Or am I a "victim" of great marketing? One justification on the $400/sq. ft thing is that it will take 2 years to complete. So in 2006 dollars, at a 6% growth it's really closer to $355/sq. ft. Still not cheap.

Is that in the Terrace or the loft building?

[atlrvr]

Well, seeing as there is tanglible value to real estate (as opposed to say spending $500k on some tech stocks) I would only consider it to be a better buy if you plan on using those tangible qualities, like say, living there. Value is very subjective when talking about a place of residence, but straight forward if talking about an investment. As an investment, I fail to see where about 20% of the value is, but I might consider it priced within an acceptable range if the building and floorplan felt like "home".

Sidenote....I'm beginning to think real estate agents should be required to get their Series 7 license.

[monsoon]

I'm curious if there are other buyers on this forum. I was one of the "lucky" lottery "winners". I must say that the marketing was EXTREMELY powerful! Once I had the "lucky opportunity" to buy, I felt like I would be an idiot not get in on the ground floor of this once in a lifetime project.

This is why they call it marketing. See the 3344 thread. Since you are asking, I think you paid way too much. For that kind of price you could have gotten something downtown and/or right on the transit line.

[ElricSeven]

This is why they call it marketing. See the 3344 thread. Since you are asking, I think you paid way too much. For that kind of price you could have gotten something downtown and/or right on the transit line.

I hate to say this because I'm dropping doo doo on someone's dream, but I kind of concur with this statement. I'm curious as to why you convinced yourself that you should give your assumed 6% a year to the builder? It is like you took on all the development risk and gave all the gains from that risk to the builder. Yikes. That's not really how it is supposed to work or I would be selling people condos to build about 20 years from now so that I could get all the appreciation and they would take all of the risk. Remember, they've now control over a large amount of your money.

Put it this way, I was really serious about putting money down on that project and they quoted me similar prices. I didn't even have to think about it, I knew it was overpriced by at least $100 per square foot.

I do think this project could be a winner, but everything is going to have to go perfectly, including retail buildout, low speculation in existing projects and strong resales in the same. Then, even if everything goes perfectly, you'll break even.

IF you're really only interested in a place to live and you plan on staying more than 5 years, then I wouldn't be worried per se. Take out at least a 7 year ARM if you can to ensure you don't get caught up in a big interest rate hike. I'd also look into a two-year rate lock if you can as insurance against rate hikes between now and then.

[rockhilljames]

Yes, lock a low interest rate a soon as you can.

On the plus side, I think in 10 years this will be one of the most desirable locations to live in Charlotte....and you'll have a great view from day one!

[habarr]

Yes, lock a low interest rate a soon as you can.

On the plus side, I think in 10 years this will be one of the most desirable locations to live in Charlotte....and you'll have a great view from day one!

My place is in the Lofts. The cheapest terrace place during my appointment was $550K... with no view. The sales person said that mostly empty-nesters were buying into the terraces. My appointment was on Tuesday (the 2nd day) at 5:00pm. I think about half of the units were already sold.

The interest rate lock idea is a good one... when I was there, they were asking for a $4000 fee (not used toward the purchase... just a fee) to lock the rate for 2 years. Ouch!! If I wait one year, I can lock the rate for a fee that will be used towards the purchase. That's what I'm thinking I will do.

I agree that I have given the builder all of the appreciation for the next 2 years (and then some). And I also agree that this property is priced to perfection... and perfection is not realistic. Another negative thought is that to flip it I would have to eat about 8% in closing costs and realtor fees. So if I can only sell for my purchase price... I'm losing about 3% more than my 5% "non-refundable" down payment. I would be better to just forfeit the down payment.

On the other hand, I'm being told that my roof top floor plan is sold out and there is a waiting list of about 30 people trying to get one of these roof top properties. The sales group was very friendly when I suggested that I may back out. They just said "No problem. There are plenty of people who would love to get it... just send something in writing". Which, of course, gave me that "lucky" feeling again.

Like some other UP members, I just left my house in the 'burbs to improve my commute. I'm actually renting it now. If all goes well, I hope to rent the Dilworth place that I just bought too. It is very close to the rail line and I got it for only $150/ sq. ft. I'm hoping it will be close to $225/sq. ft. in two years. Then I will move into the MetLofts. Hopefully rising interest rates will not be the death of me.

Another thought is.... has anyone been downtown after 11:00pm on the weekend? That made me decide to look for something slightly outside of downtown. Is there any discussion about what that is doing to the value / desirablility of Charlotte downtown real estate?

[ScottCLT]

Another thought is.... has anyone been downtown after 11:00pm on the weekend? That made me decide to look for something slightly outside of downtown. Is there any discussion about what that is doing to the value / desirablility of Charlotte downtown real estate?

Though that may be undesirable to some, it is more desirable to others. I live downtown and love being able to walk out my door and go a block and a half to a bar on Friday. No need for a cab. I live at Fifth & Poplar facing Poplar street, and don't experience excessive noise or anything...it's much better than people think. It's actually quieter than the parking lot of my old apartment complex in south Charlotte on the weekends. I don't even work uptown, so having all the dining and nightlife options right outside my door was the major part of my decision to move downtown.

If you think about it, there aren't really any condos near the popular spots to go downtown except for Courtside (which has the Breakfast Club next door). Even that is a little off the beaten path of downtown nightlife-goers.

[ElricSeven]

Though that may be undesirable to some, it is more desirable to others. I live downtown and love being able to walk out my door and go a block and a half to a bar on Friday. No need for a cab. I live at Fifth & Poplar facing Poplar street, and don't experience excessive noise or anything...it's much better than people think. It's actually quieter than the parking lot of my old apartment complex in south Charlotte on the weekends. I don't even work uptown, so having all the dining and nightlife options right outside my door was the major part of my decision to move downtown.

If you think about it, there aren't really any condos near the popular spots to go downtown except for Courtside (which has the Breakfast Club next door). Even that is a little off the beaten path of downtown nightlife-goers.

There are the Iveys, 230 South Tryon and the Ratcliffe...

[monsoon]

Another thought is.... has anyone been downtown after 11:00pm on the weekend? That made me decide to look for something slightly outside of downtown. Is there any discussion about what that is doing to the value / desirablility of Charlotte downtown real estate?

There are a lot of ongoing conversations about this including the demographic that hangs out in downtown at night. Also, only you can determine if you got a good deal or not depending upon your goals for the property. Our opinions about your purchase are just that, opinions. I welcome you to UrbanPlanet.

[turbocraig]

There are the Iveys, 230 South Tryon and the Ratcliffe...

....400 N Church, ChapelWatch, Settler's Place, The Jefferson...

[ScottCLT]

....400 N Church, ChapelWatch, Settler's Place, The Jefferson...

I still wouldn't consider those heavily travelled areas by the bar crowd. I am mainly thinking tryon between 7th and trade, Trade between tryon and church, the whole college & 6th street area, and Can's (out by itself). I don't know why church street in that area would see any bargoers walking by at night, aside from the occasional one.

230 S. Tryon is kind of out by itself...there are no bars near there. The only real place right in the middle of everything is Ivey's.

[turbocraig]

Hmm.. don't know if I can agree with that. The Church St condos are a block (or in the case of 400N Church, within the same block) from Therapy, Rock Bottom, Fox & Hound. Settler's Place is across the street from Stool Pigeon's. If your definition of "near" is immediately adjacent, even then 400N and Settler's would qualify.

[habarr]

I still wouldn't consider those heavily travelled areas by the bar crowd. I am mainly thinking tryon between 7th and trade, Trade between tryon and church, the whole college & 6th street area, and Can's (out by itself). I don't know why church street in that area would see any bargoers walking by at night, aside from the occasional one.

230 S. Tryon is kind of out by itself...there are no bars near there. The only real place right in the middle of everything is Ivey's.

It's not the "bargoers" that bother me... I'm one of those too (just not downtown as much anymore). It's the cruisers and general loitering that concerns me. Just recently Tryon St. has started feeling less safe on the weekends. Am I the only one thinking that? I know the city / police are giving out a bunch of tickets and warnings, but I'm not sure that there is anything illegal about what's going on... it's just not desirable.

[habarr]

There are a lot of ongoing conversations about this including the demographic that hangs out in downtown at night. Also, only you can determine if you got a good deal or not depending upon your goals for the property. Our opinions about your purchase are just that, opinions. I welcome you to UrbanPlanet.

Thanks! I was looking for a place to hear opinions... I'm glad people are sharing.

I look forward to the next two years of discussion about what's going on at MetMidtown... If Charlotte or the economy goes down the tubes, I can always walk away and just lose my deposit. I lost way more than that during the market bubble burst. I think interest rates will be most important to the value of any downtown condos... the second factor being over building beyond demand.