Mixed Use Spirit Square and Main Library Redevelopment

[deleted account]

12 minutes ago, Miesian Corners said:

Give me Seattle or Minneapolis designs any day of the week over the current schlock.

Not to get too far off topic but...Seattle's library is a very cool building architecturally but I didn't find it to be super functional as a library.  Ironically, I personally love the downtown LA library (circa 1925).  I do like the design of our new Uptown branch FWIW. 

[KJHburg]

31 minutes ago, JBS said:

Not to get too far off topic but...Seattle's library is a very cool building architecturally but I didn't find it to be super functional as a library.  Ironically, I personally love the downtown LA library (circa 1925).  I do like the design of our new Uptown branch FWIW. 

I think our new library design is great.  The main library in downtown Orlando is the place I have said I would be in a Cat 5 hurricane. bearing down on the City Beautiful (Orlando)  It is a concrete brutalist design.  

But this I like for Charlotte.  Something very different like the Bechtler Museum

Charlotte Mecklenburg new Main Library - Snøhetta (snohetta.com)

Edited November 28, 2021 by KJHburg

[ertley]

On 11/27/2021 at 6:46 PM, Bikeguy said:

It's plainly obvious in this aerial photo where the newer structure was added to the old (1950s?) structure. In a perfect world, since it looks like the new library is pretty much conforming to the footprint of the old structure anyway, it would've been cool (but yes, too costly) if they could've somehow salvaged only the reading room--if, of course, it would've been structurally possible to keep only the reading room standing. The reading room and its cupola, the only really worthwhile part of the extant structure, could've actually been a very cool bridging element from the new library building to the (anticipated) Truist tower--serving as a restaurant or bar space, like someone suggested.  

[B Randy]

On 11/27/2021 at 7:15 PM, RANYC said:

I know most of you here despise the current library and eagerly await this new glass design, but I have this nagging fear that the GC is going to value-engineer the daylights out of this curvy and wavy thing, and my concerns have grown with this recently announced "design complexity delay."  

 

23 hours ago, RANYC said:

"The GC has been hired to build what the architect has set forth in the plans and specifications for the project - no more and certainly no less.  However, you [developer] can ask the GC to do a review of what and how the architect has set forth the vision in the plans and specs.  The review process is referred to as value engineering and can be, as the name suggests, very valuable.  A GC will often bring a more practical insight to what is being built and can save you thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars.  However, value engineering is not just changing architectural plans of the vision.  Value engineering can have a significant impact on the building's performance, especially in the mechanical, electrical, and plumbing areas."

-The Complete Guide to Developing Commercial Real Estate, 2017, Robert A. Wehrmeyer, p. 16

Sourcing part of the premise of my statement.  Maybe book's assertion represents an expansion of scope than what you've seen traditionally.  Perhaps the book is all wrong.  Perhaps it's not just exclusively the GC and it's others among the teaming partners whereby issues are jointly escalated.  By the way, the book goes into detail on change order requests, but refers to them as a type of event or incident during construction, and not during pre-development when the dev works with GC to translate blueprints and plans and other reports into a practicable way forward.  Change order requests are a huge pain because they're a disruption during construction, but VE during pre-construction is a much smoother process of incorporating adjustments to ensure smooth execution.

At any point, this wasn't the point of my post...ignore that I even said GC...was just really wondering if anyone on the inside of this project knew how reliable and how predictive the wavy and glass renderings of the new library really are, or if the design and final look are still very much in flux.

Two things:

GC is not always "low man" on design team.  They are used quite often to verify/evaluate concept designs at the very front end of projects, before more detailed drawings are commissioned.  They are also very often looked at as "iterative design partners" to the architect/engineer, so designers don't waste their time drawing unrealistic buildings, clients don't have to pay additional fees to go back and right size, and so design timelines stay on track.

Contractor for new Main Library has been involved in entire design process and if wholesale changes happen, it's likely due to a wholesale shift in program or project budget, not bits and pieces being chipped away via VE process.

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, B Randy said:

 

Two things:

GC is not always "low man" on design team.  They are used quite often to verify/evaluate concept designs at the very front end of projects, before more detailed drawings are commissioned.  They are also very often looked at as "iterative design partners" to the architect/engineer, so designers don't waste their time drawing unrealistic buildings, clients don't have to pay additional fees to go back and right size, and so design timelines stay on track.

Contractor for new Main Library has been involved in entire design process and if wholesale changes happen, it's likely due to a wholesale shift in program or project budget, not bits and pieces being chipped away via VE process.

Yes, I agree.  Just wasn't sure at what stage the renderings we've seen so far have been drawn.  Looking for anyone on the inside of the project to comment, if possible or if available.  If not, no big deal.  I just know that in development & construction, "rendering ain't necessarily getting."

Edited November 29, 2021 by RANYC

[RANYC]

Hello - can someone close to the Spirit Square project tell me what we will get in terms of a hard-scaped square?

Are we getting anything like the Gendarmenmarkt in Berlin, which is dominated by 3 buildings including the philharmonic and a meeting place. 

Have we thought to use public buildings and amenities to frame hard-scaped, tree-canopied, place-making squares rather than just having the buildings line a street?

[Reverie39]

On 11/27/2021 at 6:46 PM, Bikeguy said:

Given that the designs are buried several pages back...  thought it might suit to bring them, (and a perspective photo from KJ) , up front & center..

Man, those parking lots need to go. Huge ugly scars on what should be a dense urban area.

[Desert Power]

1 hour ago, Reverie39 said:

Man, those parking lots need to go. Huge ugly scars on what should be a dense urban area.

Daniel Levine dislikes this post

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

delete

Edited January 8, 2022 by CharlotteWkndBuzz
wrong thread

[DownEast]

7 hours ago, Reverie39 said:

Man, those parking lots need to go. Huge ugly scars on what should be a dense urban area.

That was Third Ward 15 years ago. It'll happen.

[nakers2]

On 1/8/2022 at 12:15 PM, Reverie39 said:

Man, those parking lots need to go. Huge ugly scars on what should be a dense urban area.

If it's worth anything, this picture was taken before the new high/low rise development was opened there, so one of those lots no longer exists. 

[atlrvr]

Hearing Mill Creek will be the apartment tower developer here.  Anyone have more details?

[TheRealClayton]

1 hour ago, atlrvr said:

Hearing Mill Creek will be the apartment tower developer here.  Anyone have more details?

You are correct, and not yet but very very soon

Edited January 11, 2022 by TheRealClayton

[SydneyCarton]

2 hours ago, atlrvr said:

Hearing Mill Creek will be the apartment tower developer here.  Anyone have more details?

On which lot will that rise?  Do you know the address?

[atlrvr]

The current surface parking lot at 7th and Tryon.

[turbocraig]

2 hours ago, atlrvr said:

Hearing Mill Creek will be the apartment tower developer here.  Anyone have more details?

I hadn’t heard of them but looking them up today, they purchased Quarterside (Luxury Apartments - yellow font) back in October.  Wonder if they’ll undo that awkward paint scheme with any rebranding.  Not to derail the subject…

[atlrvr]

They have a few new construction projects in the works.  Mid-rises in both South Park and LoSo along S Tryon (near Clanton)

The architect for this Uptown project will be SK+I 

Skiarch.com

 

 

 

 

[Madison Parkitect]

8 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

They have a few new construction projects in the works.  Mid-rises in both South Park and LoSo along S Tryon (near Clanton)

The architect for this Uptown project will be SK+I 

Skiarch.com

 

 

 

 

Judging by the projects on their website and the kinds of projects Mill Creek usually does, we'll get a decent enough building but nothing really creative and the majority of public comments will be "oh great, another boring luxury apartment building that nobody can afford" even though people can obviously afford them or else the developer wouldn't build them.

[RANYC]

Uptown needs some new juice

[tozmervo]

44 minutes ago, RANYC said:

Uptown needs some new juice

It's true. Uptown lost both Green Brothers and Jamba Juice during the pandemic.

[TheRealClayton]

1 hour ago, Madison Parkitect said:

Judging by the projects on their website and the kinds of projects Mill Creek usually does, we'll get a decent enough building but nothing really creative and the majority of public comments will be "oh great, another boring luxury apartment building that nobody can afford" even though people can obviously afford them or else the developer wouldn't build them.

They are using SK&I as project architect and the master architect (SOM) has high expectations for this site, I think you might think what they come up with.

[Madison Parkitect]

26 minutes ago, TheRealClayton said:

They are using SK&I as project architect and the master architect (SOM) has high expectations for this site, I think you might think what they come up with.

If they're using SOM as the master architect I'm a lot more optimistic. That's an upper level world-class get and they're not a firm who would want to attach their name to a boring high rise.

[videtur quam contuor]

Skidmore is in Gateway AND Spirit Square?

[TheRealClayton]

36 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

If they're using SOM as the master architect I'm a lot more optimistic. That's an upper level world-class get and they're not a firm who would want to attach their name to a boring high rise.

7th & Tryon is Snøhetta, SOM and SK&I for the entire complex. I'm very excited about it. I guess its Odell too... lol

18 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

Skidmore is in Gateway AND Spirit Square?

yep, and others in the works.

Edited January 11, 2022 by TheRealClayton

[videtur quam contuor]

What I hope will occur is that the usual and too common excuse that "the client wanted a cheaper project" does not apply so much to SOM. I hope they are chosen so they can deliver a distinctive, useful and efficient project with a budget that the client will accept and SOM will resist important changes for reasons that are solely based on budget. An important question to ask in ANY professional relationship is "Who is the client?" Not so easy to answer sometimes.