Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[ajfunder]

Some CATS officials I talked to said they would keep them for special events while a few others said they would probably sell them. I don't think CATS has any concrete plan yet.

[kermit]

Given the different boarding heights for the Gomaco and the Siemans LRT vehicles there are not many places where they could be reused (would have been  awesome if they could be added to the Blue Line as uptown circulators / bonus frequencies between Tremont and 36th st). 

Since reuse on LRT tracks is not practical it would be very easy to run them on the P&N from Cedar st to Parkway. This streetcar (which will be pioneered by the same heritage trolly that pioneered the Blue Line) is a short route, through a combination of moderately dense and stable residential, some struggling residential areas plus a huge array of disused industrial buildings (like the mill that Blue Blaze is going into). This line could also eventually tied into the larger streetcar network if the west line is built as planned down Cedar st. The only big capital cost barrier to this project would be electrification which is ironic given the origins of the P&N. The route is short enough that it could run on a single track to start. You could even make a decent case to get Duke to pay for the electrification of the line as some type of heritage / museum / PR strategy (the P&N was built and owned by James B Duke as a means of showcasing what electricity can do). BID and TIF money could be used to make slow and steady incremental improvements to service (passing sidings, station canopies, upgrading track for higher speeds). Its cheap, it fills a gap in the network and it would unlock substantial new investments. If you could get decent community buy-in this would actually be a reasonable TIGER grant possibility.

Fantasies aside, the Gomaco's are most likely to just rot in the South blvd yard. They would be most efficiently used to increase frequencies on existing streetcar lines.

There is a slim possibility that Winston-Salem actually starts their downtown streetcar project and they might have some interest in the vehicles. If the city of Greensboro had any sense they would snap all three vehicles up and run service on the abandoned spur that almost connects their transit / intercity rail station, downtown and UNCG to the Battleground ave business district (they would need a short new-build extension on Spring Garden Street to the station).

Edited September 6, 2015 by kermit

[Spartan]

I'm pretty sure the streetcar you are talking about is about 10-12 years old. It's a replica of Charlotte's older streetcars, but not that old itself. I don't mind the noise or the roughness of the ride at all. I think it adds to the experience to be honest. I hope they find a use for these cars once the new streetcars are in use on the Gold Line.

I've been on a modern streetcar in Seattle. It's quieter, but not much. It' s just the nature of rail transportation.

[queensguy06]

I haven't seen anything on the news - my father was on his way to my house in Plaza Midwood yesterday morning around 10:30am and he said it looked like the trolley was involved in another accident.  It looked like the auto was at fault, and it was right at the intersection of Elizabeth and Hawthorne.  The front bumper of the car (could have been rear - didn't get a great look) was ripped completely off the car.  Anybody else hear/see this?

I don't know if this has any relevance to this accident, but I do know that the original white line for the light on Hawthorne used to be right at the intersection.  With the addition of the turn for the trolley going from Elizabeth to the center of Hawthorne this line was moved back substantially from the intersection.  Before the trolley even began service when this change was made, I remember many occasions when cars would stop at the actual intersection past the white line and would be either on the tracks or within the clearance range of where the trolley would be turning.  My thoughts even then were that this could become an issue.  Again, don't know the specifics of the accident or if this was a contributing factor.

[southslider]

No right on red from Hawthorne to Elizabeth.

[15895]

After the whole light rail cap of $500,000 in state funding, I am so glad we are investing in streetcar. Especially if the rest of the line is done right.

 

University City, Uptown, SouthEnd, the airport, and Plaza-Midwood will all have rail service via the blue and gold line. I can live with that! 

[Guest]

The state capped light rai funding because their budget was strained?

Fine.

Did they cap spending on highway construction and expansion?

[dubone]

The cap may mean we only have streetcar expansions for the foreseeable future.   The Southeast line and the North line are pretty much DOA until the budget picture changes.  

It is, of course, complete BS and stemming from really terrible ideals of the current state leaders.  

 

In other news, I have seen too many times where they have to stop the streetcar and get out and search for the illegal parker on Elizabeth Avenue.  Meanwhile the streetcar clearly had multiple FEET of clearance.  There needs to be one line for towing enforcement, then then a true line where the streetcar can still get through fine with out a scratch.    Certainly the behavior needs to be corrected with penalties but there needs to still be some rationality where just because they painted the line at the curb doesn't mean the streetcar is going to hit something that is that far away.

 

If it continues to impact the schedule, I can see those spaces being removed eventually.   

[michaelef]

Maybe we should turn some of those spaces into Parklets! 

[jednc]

The cap may mean we only have streetcar expansions for the foreseeable future.   The Southeast line and the North line are pretty much DOA until the budget picture changes.  

It is, of course, complete BS and stemming from really terrible ideals of the current state leaders.  

 

In other news, I have seen too many times where they have to stop the streetcar and get out and search for the illegal parker on Elizabeth Avenue.  Meanwhile the streetcar clearly had multiple FEET of clearance.  There needs to be one line for towing enforcement, then then a true line where the streetcar can still get through fine with out a scratch.    Certainly the behavior needs to be corrected with penalties but there needs to still be some rationality where just because they painted the line at the curb doesn't mean the streetcar is going to hit something that is that far away.

 

If it continues to impact the schedule, I can see those spaces being removed eventually.   

where is this happening mostly?

[dubone]

where is this happening mostly?

Elizabeth Avenue (click for streetview)

Edited September 29, 2015 by dubone

[jednc]

Elizabeth Avenue (click for streetview)

so, are they double parking or just not getting into those spaces well enough?

[dubone]

Ok, I need to restate my point.    When the streetcar began operations, they posted signs that for these parallel parking street spaces, if the vehicle is over the line (they are not getting into those spaces well enough), they will be immediately towed.  But people don't notice signs, and people don't notice that they're over a parking like by a couple inches.  

 

The policy for the streetcar drives if they see a car over the line, to stop the vehicle and arrange for a tow, but of course the drivers have learned that it is faster to go in and make announcements in all the nearby businesses.  This is a huge waste of time for a transit line. 

 

But I am saying there should be 2 lines.  One that makes the streetcar stop and one that encourages proper parking with the threat of a tow.   There are multiple feet of difference between the start of the parking line and where the streetcar physically will be.   They should arrange for a tow of this lady, but still moved the streetcar through the area because it wasn't going to hit.   I think the line is actually the concrete seem, so even if they must stop and double check that they can get through, that is still faster than going all around asking for someone to move their damn car, and certainly faster than waiting for a tow truck. 

 

If it is blocking, of course that needs to happen.  But this type of lady being over the line a bit is likely to be common.   

[dcharlotte]

Remove the surface parking on the entire route. The streetcar should not be slowed down by people wanting to store their cars. The highest and best use of this corridor is not transit {sodEmoji.|} car storage {sodEmoji.|} sidewalk. It should be a wider sidewalk and transit.

[Matthew.Brendan]

The operators stop the train. Get off. And walk into nearby businesses?  To look for someone who may or may not be anywhere nearby?  Seriously?  This is hilarious. and sad. and so Charlotte. 

[Windsurfer]

The distance might have to do with people sticking their arms out the windows. (?)

[archiham04]

Can they install something equivalent to a cow catcher?  Car Catcher?...  Escalade Annihilator?  Expedition Expunger?  Suburban Subverter?  Tahoe Taker-outer?

[dubone]

The operators stop the train. Get off. And walk into nearby businesses?  To look for someone who may or may not be anywhere nearby?  Seriously?  This is hilarious. and sad. and so Charlotte. 

Yep.  "A tow truck is on the way, ma'am".   "Oh mah gaosh, I had noh idea there was a line"

 

 

[SgtCampsalot]

Edited September 29, 2015 by SgtCampsalot

[dubone]

The irony of this for me, the great-grandfather that gave my whole family our last name was hit by a streetcar in 1920 and killed and the streetcar didn't even stop. 

That affected my whole family's existence, because my grandfather was treated as second class by his step father while his half-brother got sent to expensive private school and university and became a business executive.  My grandfather had to work jobs as a mechanic and eventually became a plumber.   All because a streetcar wouldn't stop.    If it had happened a year earlier, my grandfather wouldn't have been born, though, so there's that. 

 

Regardless, they shouldn't stop at all when they can technically get through without hitting the car.   But if this ignorance continues then first they should make the signage even more threatening and obvious somehow, but then yes, I completely agree that once Phase II comes online, these spaces should converted to wider sidewalks for al fresco dining.   That at least will appease the poor restaurants in this area that have suffered a lot already from the disturbances and lack of growth in the area.

[kermit]

I am assuming that he misspoke, but Dan Coldfelter said in the Dem Mayoral debate this morning that modern streetcars are already on order. I am not the only one who heard that: 

Jen Rothacker ‏@JenRothacker 52m52 minutes ago

Clodfelter: New, sleeker street cars are on order. #cltdebate

Which made me wonder, anyone hear about when the FFGA Small Starts Grant Agreement (SSGA) will be signed for Phase 2? I think it will be sometime in October.

Edited September 30, 2015 by kermit

[dubone]

I wonder if there is any efficiencies of scale of ordering at the same time as the BLE vehicles.   At least in purchasing power.  

But I don't know. 

[Nolan]

Usually other cities combine or take up on one another's option on additional purchases on LRVs, like the Tide - Hampton Roads Transit acted on CATS's initial Blue Line option after our first 16 LRVs. However from CATS's FTA quarterly report, the LRVs for the BLE are nearly completed with half of those already completed in storage. 

Edited October 6, 2015 by Nolan

[dubone]

So was he maybe mixing that up?   Hopefully they really are on order.  As much as I support the replica cars, I will be very pleased to see the modern cars on that corridor. 

 

[SgtCampsalot]

I interpreted it as they are "in their shopping cart" for when the Phase 2 funding goes through. Probably more intended to make the point about the better cars than to say "we'll have 'em next week"