Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[mallguy]

Transit supporters really ought to tread with caution in Charlotte and be sure to build only rail lines that will generate a lot of ridership.  Anti-transit zealots are itching to find any transit line that has low ridership and/or doesn't have a good farebox recovery ratio.  So far the streetcar has a 0% farebox recovery ratio and low ridership.  (I know that it won't be free once Phase 2 opens, and ridership will increase then.)  I don't want to be giving the John Locke crowd any ammunition, but the streetcar could be it.  I also don't want public transportation to have a stigma of being for "those other people", but the streetcar could be that as well.

I'd prefer to focus on the Blue Line, commuter rail and additional Piedmont trains.

Edited November 2, 2015 by mallguy

[15895]

Transit supporters really ought to tread with caution in Charlotte and be sure to build only rail lines that will generate a lot of ridership.  Anti-transit zealots are itching to find any transit line that has low ridership and/or doesn't have a good farebox recovery ratio.  So far the streetcar has a 0% farebox recovery ratio and low ridership.  (I know that it won't be free once Phase 2 opens, and ridership will increase then.)  I don't want to be giving the John Locke crowd any ammunition, but the streetcar could be it.  I also don't want public transportation to have a stigma of being for "those other people", but the streetcar could be that as well.

I'd prefer to focus on the Blue Line, commuter rail and additional Piedmont trains.

I think for the most part, if you're against transit, you'll be against most any transit project. 

 

I think the gold line, when extended, will prove to be a success like the TWC arena. I also think many of our southern peers are going to look at us in the near future and wonder why they didn't get on board with transit like we did. 

 

I think in general, as time progresses, we'll be looked at as a forward thinking southern city.

[SgtCampsalot]

^Yup. While I do think MallGuy is correct that we should walk a careful path with this streetcar (several Dems don't want to pay for it), I don't think there's any other option for our long range transit plan right now. Red Line is stopped up indefinitely, Silver Line can't do anything but study until the state's 500k cap is lifted (hopefully), and I get the feeling they're waiting to see what happens with commuter lines before they invest in a streetcar to the airport... So the city needs to do something instead of sitting on their hands.

[Deleted.]

Transit supporters really ought to tread with caution in Charlotte and be sure to build only rail lines that will generate a lot of ridership.  Anti-transit zealots are itching to find any transit line that has low ridership and/or doesn't have a good farebox recovery ratio.  So far the streetcar has a 0% farebox recovery ratio and low ridership.  (I know that it won't be free once Phase 2 opens, and ridership will increase then.)  I don't want to be giving the John Locke crowd any ammunition, but the streetcar could be it.  I also don't want public transportation to have a stigma of being for "those other people", but the streetcar could be that as well.

I'd prefer to focus on the Blue Line, commuter rail and additional Piedmont trains.

Streetcar ridership isn't low. Why do you say that? We expected around 900 daily riders, or around 27,000 monthly riders. But we had approx. 1,500 daily or 46,000 monthly riders in the first full month. Yes, you are right about fares. Why we couldn't introduce fares in Phase 1? I don't know. 

TBH, I haven't ridden on the bus, when I have my car, but I'd ride the streetcar. I'd rather focus on the Phase 2, Silver Line, Airport Line and additional streetcar and light rail lines. 

[SouthEndCLT811]

September posted even higher ridership at 1,938 daily trips.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article42205878.html

Edited November 2, 2015 by SouthEndCLT811

[Deleted.]

September posted even higher ridership at 1,938 daily trips.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article42205878.html

That's brilliant!! Even more of a reason to build Phase 2 but also prove that streetcar is good for CLT. How can anyone say the streetcar is a disaster? How can Edwin Peacock say it?

Edit- If we round up 1,938 to the nearest half or whole number, which is 1,950. Almost 58,500 rode the streetcar in a month! In comparison, Atlanta's streetcar has monthly ridership between 47,000 and 102,000 (six months after opening) So for a smaller and newer streetcar system, we are doing great! 

Btw- I think you can all tell from my posts I'm a huge streetcar supporter! 

Edited November 2, 2015 by Piedmont767

[kermit]

^ These stats make it possible to argue that the Gold Line is a bigger success that the Blue line was:

Gold Line exceeded initial ridership expectations by 100%

Blue Line exceed initial ridership expectations by 25% (this is approximate and based on memory of initial projections and ridership).

I do understand that the discussion is more complicated than the numbers above, but this is one yardstick that could be used to evaluate its success.

[tozmervo]

Fwiw, the citylynx Facebook posted today that construction on phase 2 starts spring 2016

[Deleted.]

Fwiw, the citylynx Facebook posted today that construction on phase 2 starts spring 2016

That could be either March or May. But late 2016 construction start for late 2019 opening wasn't going to happen. But this is assuming Edwin Peacock doesn't get in. 

Edited November 2, 2015 by Piedmont767

[SgtCampsalot]

^Well, with BLE open in late 2017, and several NECI projects completed in 2019, it's going to be a rough five years.

[Guest]

^Well, with BLE open in late 2017, and several NECI projects completed in 2019, it's going to be a rough five years.

New England Culinary Institute?

[SgtCampsalot]

Well yes, while The Institute is a marvelous... er, institution... the North East Corridor Improvement projects (Parkwood Ave, Matheson bridge, 36th St, Sugar Creek, Orr Rd, Rocky River Rd W, JW Clay, etc). Several won't be done until after 2017.

Edited November 2, 2015 by SgtCampsalot

[Deleted.]

The Facebook post has been edited and now just says 2016. I got my hopes up that the SSGA was signed and construction has been given the green light. Oh well, let's continue to hope. 

[southslider]

A budget finally passed in DC, so Gold Line should be officially funded soon.

As for NECI projects, a couple should open in time for BLE opening in 2017, namely both the Orr Rd and 25th St extensions.

[Deleted.]

Deleted 

Edited November 3, 2015 by Piedmont767

[Deleted.]

Kansas City recieved their first streetcar yesterday. It is also a CAF Urbos 3, the same as on the  Cincinnati Streetcar, the vehicles used by both of those cities are made in Elmira, New York; so they comply with the Buy America Act. Another feature of the Kansas City Streetcar is that they are enabled with Wi-Fi. Perhaps we could introduced Wi-Fi on Lynx LRVs and streetcars. 

http://www.kansascity.com/news/government-politics/article42201072.html

Edited November 3, 2015 by Piedmont767

[dcharlotte]

Wifi on streetcars, LRV and city buses are a waste of money for implementation and service quality. Longer range commuter buses and commuter rail where people can actually bring on a device worthy of using wifi and extending their work it makes sense for productivity and allowing people to make the most of their time.

Wifi on streetcars, light rail and city buses translates to teenagers watching YouTube videos without headphones or streaming music loudly. No thanks. Save the money and buy another bus.

(I may have strong views on this)

Edited November 3, 2015 by dcharlotte

[ajfunder]

For what it's worth, the streetcar made a couple of appearances in ESPN's Monday Night Football Coverage.

[Liz Millsaps Haigler]

Yes, the streetcar looked fantastic on national TV during the Panthers game!  Great for tourism dollars!

[Deleted.]

Yes, the streetcar looked fantastic on national TV during the Panthers game!  Great for tourism dollars!

Certainly is! Hopefully rack up interest and support for Phase 2. And with the FY16 budget passing and signed we will have a great addition to our city. 

Also welcome to UrbanPlanet!!  

[Liz Millsaps Haigler]

I've attached CATS' invitation for Phase 2 Meetings next week.  It is also on their FB:  https://www.facebook.com/cityLYNXGoldLineConstructionUpdates/?fref=ts

[Deleted.]

I've attached CATS' invitation for Phase 2 Meetings next week.  It is also on their FB:  https://www.facebook.com/cityLYNXGoldLineConstructionUpdates/?fref=ts

Some one else attached it further up in the thread, unfortunately I can't attend.  Thanks for linking it though. 

Someone on the FB page asked about the bidding process, which the page replied it would start in April. This document: 

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/planning/GoldLine/Small Starts/VI Supporting Documentation/City LYNX Gold Line Phase 2 Proposed Milestone Schedule.pdf

says March. So we are running behind schedule, we could always shorten the bidding process to keep on track (pardon the pun). 

Edited November 4, 2015 by Piedmont767

[Deleted.]

Now this is an example of a boondoggle and (street)car-crash of a streetcar project: 

http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/19/dc-says-streetcar-will-be-ready-soon-for-the-seventh-time/

At least we got a streetcar up and running eventually. 

[kermit]

At least we got a streetcar up and running eventually. 

you make it sound much worse than it really was. Our starter system was on budget and only three months late (due to a contractor error). Its also carrying twice as many riders as projected.

EDIT: For the purposes of comparison The Gold Line carried 1,938 riders per day in September and is 1.42 miles long. On a riders per mile basis the Gold Line outperforms the following LRT and streetcar systems:

• Charlotte (Gold Line) 1,364 riders per mile (rpm)
• Dallas (DART) 1,198 rpm
• Sacramento 1,171 rpm
• Atlanta (Streetcar) 1,100 rpm
• St. Louis (Metrolink) 1,085 rpm
• Pittsburgh (T) 1,057 rpm
• New Orleans (RTA) 1,031 rpm  (streetcar)
• Tuscon (Sun Link) 1,026 rpm (streetcar)
• Santa Clara (VTA) 834 rpm
• Norfolk (Tide) 784 rpm
• Cleveland (Blue and Green lines) 498 rpm
• Salt Lake City (Sugarhouse streetcar) 391 rpm
• Trenton / Camden (River Line) 265 (this is a diesel powered light-rail-looking system on a time shifted freight route -- 34 miles long)
• Tampa (TECO) 259 rpm (this is really just a tourist shuttle to Ybor)
• Dallas (Oak Cliff streetcar) 178 rpm

For comparison:

• Portland (original streetcar loop -- the N-S Line) 2,247 rpm
• Portland (Max) 1,956 rpm
• Charlotte (lynx) 1,729 rpm
• Seattle (South Lake Union Transit Streetcar (S L U T) 1,692 rpm

Honestly our "streetcar to nowhere" is doing pretty good, especially when considering that this segment was never intended to be a full length route. To be fair, the Gold Line is free while the other systems are not, but I choose to believe.

Edited November 10, 2015 by kermit
data nerderling added

[cltbwimob]

I was in town this past weekend to see the Checkers play.  On Satrday after the game I went to uptown, and I must say, the streetcars look awesome.  

I still maintain my position that creating a 10 mile line is a mistake, but streetcar definitely has a place in the Charlotte transit picture.  I really wish that the city would reconsider the scope of the project and instead have multiple lines emanating from uptown (I.e. Midtown/CMC/QueensU, Freedom Drive, etc.).  I also hope the city will continue using the replica cars...they really look good and differentiate themselves from the Light Rail in a good way.  

Here's hoping Phase 2 comes quickly.