Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[kermit]

gezzus...

If its not reliable its a bauble, not transit.

[RANYC]

21 hours ago, kermit said:

gezzus...

If its not reliable its a bauble, not transit.

"CATS data shows that late and missed bus routes, which plagued the system last summer, have declined rapidly since service cuts took effect in August."

See, if you cut service, you reduce errors and incidents.  Like if I'm running a trading firm and experience trading errors, I can just stop trading.  Thanks Mr. Cagle.

[kermit]

Seriously? At this point the city is better off shutting it down until they can actually staff it. Although even 30 minute frequencies could cause the FTA to ask for the SSGA to be refunded.

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by kermit

[Nathan2]

11 minutes ago, kermit said:

Seriously? At this point the city is better off shutting it down until they can actually staff it. Although even 30 minute frequencies could cause the FTA to ask for the SSGA to be refunded.

 

Again, Why have we not heard one peep from Charlotte Council members on these issues? I feel like part of the reason transit continues to worsen is because no one but a few online urbanists are holding them accountable. 

[Matthew.Brendan]

Why should we pay to expand rail service? No one rides it!

[15895]

25 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

Again, Why have we not heard one peep from Charlotte Council members on these issues? I feel like part of the reason transit continues to worsen is because no one but a few online urbanists are holding them accountable. 

There’s probably more online urbanist who think this is happening all around the country due to Covid. The city of Charlotte is stuck in operating as if its 2020. IMO. 
 

Above all. This is what happens when people who don’t use transit or aren’t passionate about the importance of transit run transit. Always. 
 

“Reliability will improve if we make a 3 mile streetcar operate every 30 minutes”. By the time you walk to streetcar…. Get on streetcar. Take it to your stop. Walk to your destination. It could easily be a 50 minute one way trip…. Often. For many people who take if.
 

What is the point of reliability that the streetcar leaves the terminus every 30 minutes? That itself is hard to time anywhere else along the line due to stopping for vehicles,  traffic lights, stops. What rider gives a flying F about reliability of a consistent schedule at that useless of speed or frequency? And how many people show up to light rail or streetcar (not counting the ends) based upon rough calculations of when it would show up (unless CATS has got better at real time since I left.) I never relied on when it should get to the station. 
 

The *only* good thing about reducing frequency to improve reliability is literally just to give management a pat on the back for “look, reliability improved.” - that makes me dislike Cagle. This would make sense for an airport (trying to reduce certain banks or temporarily reduce flights to ease congestion and cancellations where that is super impactful and is critical for airlines profitability as messing up schedules can hit the airlines hard and ruin passengers days and be expensive for everyone). This isn’t an airport…. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by AirNostrumMAD

[RANYC]

4 hours ago, Nathan2 said:

Again, Why have we not heard one peep from Charlotte Council members on these issues? I feel like part of the reason transit continues to worsen is because no one but a few online urbanists are holding them accountable. 

There's an argument to be made that the reason a broader slice of the population isn't holding city council and, by extension, city management accountable for high-performing transit is that there really isn't general community consensus and buy-in on reducing auto-dependency/auto-reliance.  

Edited August 9, 2023 by RANYC

[kermit]

^ and there will not be a community consensus on reducing auto dependence anywhere in the South as long as driving is so heavily subsidized.

Hidden subsidies like 'free' parking, emissions, and gas taxes that haven't been increased since the Clinton administration mean that most people would be making a financial mistake by deciding not to drive.

Its time for the 'stick' of making drivers pay the full cost of driving. Unfortunately very few politicians are willing to pull the trigger on this (see the NYC congestion charge).

Edited August 10, 2023 by kermit

[RANYC]

13 hours ago, kermit said:

^ and there will not be a community consensus on reducing auto dependence anywhere in the South as long as driving is so heavily subsidized.

Hidden subsidies like 'free' parking, emissions, and gas taxes that haven't been increased since the Clinton administration mean that most people would be making a financial mistake by deciding not to drive.

Its time for the 'stick' of making drivers pay the full cost of driving. Unfortunately no politician is willing to pull the trigger on this.

https://slate.com/business/2022/05/miami-parking-developers-housing.html

Miami recently regressed on parking according to this Slate article.  Miami had started to see infill on small lots by small developers.  Commissioners cited lack of transit strategy in the reasoning for instituting requirements.  1.5 cars per unit.

[Nathan2]

14 hours ago, RANYC said:

There's an argument to be made that the reason a broader slice of the population isn't holding city council and, by extension, city management accountable for high-performing transit is that there really isn't general community consensus and buy-in on reducing auto-dependency/auto-reliance.  

It's amazingly ironic how the city council will go on and on about equity and affordability while forcing land use patterns that cause people, especially low-income people, to spend a high percentage of their income on transportation just to drive down the street to the grocery store. It's amazing how car companies have tricked everyone, including the government to make cars the default. I mean the government is literally betting on beating climate change by just producing more cars (electric). 

[RANYC]

37 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

It's amazingly ironic how the city council will go on and on about equity and affordability while forcing land use patterns that cause people, especially low-income people, to spend a high percentage of their income on transportation just to drive down the street to the grocery store. It's amazing how car companies have tricked everyone, including the government to make cars the default. I mean the government is literally betting on beating climate change by just producing more cars (electric). 

Oh, it’s more than ironic.  It’s small-minded, low-IQ, and sadistic.  Our council of goobers will authorize funds for affordable housing or preserving so-called “naturally occurring affordable housing” on the one hand, while not even reducing or eliminating parking requirements on those housing projects.  Then, when you go and speak with residents occupying those units, there is not an insignificant number of them who actually do NOT even own a car.  

And then there are those residents not in Inlivian or NOAH projects who are struggling to pay the rent and aren’t even trying to deal with the expense of car ownership and car reliance, and they’re being made a complete mockery of with the parking tax and a lack of action on tactical mobility.  

The silver line isn’t going to help most of these people.  Frequent and proximate buses/routes with high quality personnel and security and last-mile accommodations complete with traffic-calming and pedestrian accoutrements will help.

So the city has levied a parking tax on residential units even for those who can’t afford a car.  While residents struggle to make ends meet and keep a roof over their heads, we mandate embedded costs of basic shelter with our parking tax.  It’s actually awful.  

Have no fear though, chief goober Lawana Mayfield is strategically focused on how Chick-fil-a can accommodate her jaunts across town in her vehicle, all in the name of so-called equity.  That’s her idea of equity, drive-thru’s for those merely driving from other parts of town to grab a chicken biscuit.  Yes, chicken biscuit equity.

I challenge you to a data visualization exercise.  Marcus Jones started in 2016.  Vi Lyles became Mayor in 2017.  Plot city data about an issue you care about on the Y-axis of a 2-dimensional graph, and each year since on the horizontal graph.  Reflect on the trend lines.  I almost fell out of my seat when I came across an article at the end of 2016 indicating Charlotte closed that year with 60 homicides, and that tally was up.

Edited August 10, 2023 by RANYC

[kermit]

So, Tacoma is opening its Tacoma Link (mixed traffic streetcar) extension this weekend. The line is going from 2 miles to 4 (basically the same as Gold Line phase 1 and 2)

https://www.king5.com/amp/article/news/local/tacoma-link-extension-open-saturday/281-18597493-73e6-4fd8-8356-5a00ca4ac6e8

The salient part of the comparison with the Gold Line is:

Quote

The expansion will also increase the number of Sound Transit Tacoma trains from three to eight.

If I remember correctly CATS has four Gold Line Vehicles (and generally only operates two at a time). Assuming they actually use their 8 vehicles, Tacoma shows that it is possible to operate streetcars at reasonable frequency. CATS and the city might as well have set the Gold Line money aflame the way they are operating it.

Edited September 20, 2023 by kermit

[Matthew.Brendan]

The body only lives while the heart is pumping.

[Reverie39]

Is there a timeline in place for the remaining Gold Line extensions? Frequency is definitely the highest priority, but it's great to see encouraging ridership numbers and it tells me that many more people will take the line if it reaches them.

[kermit]

19 hours ago, Reverie39 said:

Is there a timeline in place for the remaining Gold Line extensions? Frequency is definitely the highest priority, but it's great to see encouraging ridership numbers and it tells me that many more people will take the line if it reaches them.

No (there is no timeline, plans, funding mechanism, or engineering work underway for a next phase of the Gold Line)

Since the Gold Line is not a CATS funded line (the city has paid all local capital costs and it pays the CATS to operate it outside of the transit tax). It could proceed independently from the remainder of the transit plan. However, politically I can't really see a situation where the city would start work on Phase III (in the Eastland direction) before the Silver Line (or similar) is underway. 

I don't recall any preliminary cost estimates on Phase III, but I suspect that anything on the Eastland end would be a minimum of $500 million (just a guess), meaning the city would need to find $250 million for the local match (outside of the transit tax). The other issue is I doubt the FTA would be willing to fund an extension on a streetcar project operated at our current 20/40 minute frequencies.

The Beatties Ford to I-85 section would probably be much cheaper and could perhaps be done for $250mill. This section would be a bigger (and easier) political win, but It does not appear that any council member gives much of a damn about transit victories these days.

Edited September 26, 2023 by kermit

[kermit]

I don’t know any of the story behind this but the Cincinnati streetcar (same generation as the Gold Line) has been steadily making new ridership records. This suggests (to me) that CATS’ careless operational strategy is keeping the Gold Line below its potential. Cincinnati tells us that there is a demand for urban calculator rail (it looks like they run every 15 minutes which is still sub-optimal), and Charlotte tells us that demand is not met with 30 minute, semi-random frequencies.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by kermit

[RANYC]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

I don’t know any of the story behind this but the Cincinnati streetcar (same generation as the Gold Line) has been steadily making new ridership records. This suggests (to me) that CATS’ careless operational strategy is keeping the Gold Line below its potential. Cincinnati tells us that there is a demand for urban calculator rail (it looks like they run every 15 minutes which is still sub-optimal), and Charlotte tells us that demand is not met with 30 minute, semi-random frequencies.

 

 

I’d posted on here last year that I was riding the gold line streetcar to and from work each day.  I’ve stopped riding for 2 reasons: 30-minute INfrequencies, and a loss of confidence in transit operations.

On the 2nd point, there’s a part of me that expects a certain measure of management competence when engaging in shared spaces in America.  That means, can I trust that management is working effectively behind the scenes to keep me safe, to identify and preempt the actions of malefactors through perhaps advanced surveillance or intelligence strategies.  I just don’t get any sort of confidence like that from the news coming out of CATS.  There just doesn’t appear to be any kind of culture of quality there.

[carolinaboy]

26 minutes ago, RANYC said:

I’d posted on here last year that I was riding the gold line streetcar to and from work each day.  I’ve stopped riding for 2 reasons: 30-minute INfrequencies, and a loss of confidence in transit operations.

On the 2nd point, there’s a part of me that expects a certain measure of management competence when engaging in shared spaces in America.  That means, can I trust that management is working effectively behind the scenes to keep me safe, to identify and preempt the actions of malefactors through perhaps advanced surveillance or intelligence strategies.  I just don’t get any sort of confidence like that from the news coming out of CATS.  There just doesn’t appear to be any kind of culture of quality there.

I'm going to rename my dad/garage band the Malefactors. Thanks. 

[kermit]

FWIW, two streetcars of similar vintage to ours are in various stages of expansion.

Kansas City has doubled route length (I believe) and is currently receiving 8 (!) additional vehicles for the line (we only have four streetcars btw and its generally only two running at a time).

Cincinnati, which really struggled at first, is engaging in publicly-led discussions on nine (!) possible route expansions. (this is a long way from actual construction though)

Being stuck in Charlotte it is easy to think that everyone has forgotten about transit, but expansion elsewhere continues at a rapid pace — we suck.

 

Edited February 2 by kermit

[kermit]

Good news (sorta). The Gold Line is moving from comically ridiculous frequencies (30 minutes) to merely awful frequencies (20 minutes) starting tomorrow (Saturday). In order to function as an unban circulator (which it was planned to be) it needs to be every 5 minutes or less.

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/charlottes-gold-line-increases-frequency/UI5ZN37LVVDYBLMFHY6FXEVF6E/

Edited March 30 by kermit

[RANYC]

18 hours ago, kermit said:

Good news (sorta). The Gold Line is moving from comically ridiculous frequencies (30 minutes) to merely awful frequencies (20 minutes) starting tomorrow (Saturday). In order to function as an unban circulator (which it was planned to be) it needs to be every 5 minutes or less.

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/charlottes-gold-line-increases-frequency/UI5ZN37LVVDYBLMFHY6FXEVF6E/

I’d be happy with every 10 to 12 minutes.   Sadly, although the higher frequency took effect today, updated instructions in the CATS app apparently didn’t.  We just can’t have it all. 

Edited March 30 by RANYC

[kermit]

Damit, I got got by April fools. Damit. 
 

urbanist twitter is just cruel on April 1.

 

Edited April 1 by kermit

[Third Strike]

Public meetings being held for the next phase of the Gold Line:

https://www.charlottenc.gov/CATS/Transit-Planning/Gold-Line-Extension#section-2