Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[uptownliving]

The new sleek modern cars are NOT on order, however the process to procure them has already begun because it is a long lead item. The city is expecting FTA approval and funding for Phase 2 in March 2016. To have the new cars ready for Phase 2 they need to start the process now of evaluating the different models and manufacturers. The city has submitted a Letter of No Prejudice to the FTA that will basically give the FTA's blessing for the City to go ahead and procure new cars for this project. It is expected that it will take about 8 months for the City to review and select a specific manufacturer and model. There is talk of getting a hybrid model that will be able to operate part of the route off of the wire.

[Deleted.]

The new sleek modern cars are NOT on order, however the process to procure them has already begun because it is a long lead item. The city is expecting FTA approval and funding for Phase 2 in March 2016. To have the new cars ready for Phase 2 they need to start the process now of evaluating the different models and manufacturers. The city has submitted a Letter of No Prejudice to the FTA that will basically give the FTA's blessing for the City to go ahead and procure new cars for this project. It is expected that it will take about 8 months for the City to review and select a specific manufacturer and model. There is talk of getting a hybrid model that will be able to operate part of the route off of the wire.

I think the S70 is the most likely candidate, commonality with the Blue Line etc. The streetcar version is shorter than the light rail version and is also the type used for the Atlanta Streetcar. 

[archiham04]

I hope the new cars are yellow.

Edited October 9, 2015 by archiham04

[Deleted.]

I hope the new cars are yellow.

I like the current green and yellow, I hope they stay on the new streetcars, though with a few tweaks to the livery to make it look more modern. 

[tozmervo]

Not sure when this finally kicked in, but CityLYNX is "google maps official" with it's own cute little icons now.. still no transit layer for Charlotte tho.

[southslider]

^There are transit directions in Google with updated schedules.

[ah59396]

I really wish we had a transit layer.  Seems like something that would be easy to do.  I wonder what needs to happen for that to occur.  I also think I asked this question like 5 years ago.

[tozmervo]

I'm sure it'll happen when we get real time bus tracking... you know, five years ago

[Deleted.]

http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/seattle/2015/09/30/new-seattle-streetcar-would-connect-through-city-center/73126602/

How can Seattle plan to build an entirely new streetcar line in 2 years? Whilst it takes us 3 and 1/2 years to build an EXTENSION? 

[southslider]

^Seattle cuts a shallow trench into their street. Charlotte rebuilds the entire street and utilities. 

[Deleted.]

^But for Seattle's new streetcar line, they are relocating utilities as well. 

[southslider]

Charlotte's project rebuilds the entire street.

[Deleted.]

^Ok fair enough. But surely, if they are relocating utility lines in Seattle they would have to dig everything up and then rebuild, no? 

Also, how long will the intersection of Trade and Tryon be closed for the construction of the extension? 

[Deleted.]

Just looking on CATS website and the streetcar line to the airport is proposed as part of the CityLYNX Gold Line, a branch of the line after Gateway Station. I thought the streetcar to the airport was going to be a seperate line? 

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/planning/GoldLine/Phase%202/Pages/default.aspx

Edited October 19, 2015 by Piedmont767

[southslider]

^Service from the Airport would continue east of Gateway on Trade.

[Spartan]

I'm sure it'll happen when we get real time bus tracking... you know, five years ago

I think it has to do with the City and CATS's previous lack of an open data policy. This is also why nobody can develop their own custom apps. Since the city now has an open data portal it will be interesting to see if CATS adds the necessary information to create those things (FWIW it may already be there... I've never looked).

 

[dubone]

^Seattle cuts a shallow trench into their street. Charlotte rebuilds the entire street and utilities. 

Why do we not do the same?   They once acted like they'd do that in early streetcar meetings in Charlotte.   I understand the need to modernize the utilities, but shouldn't that be a utilities cost whenever they need to maintain or change the utilities just like it is their responsibility to patch the road and sidewalk above when they do the same?

Surely Seattle has just as random of utilities under their streets as we do, or did they have proper planning and require utilities to go in set rights of way in their streets and are now reaping the benefits of their planning and foresight?

 

[southslider]

Trade Street has been resurfaced so many times that it's better to just start over.  All the more reason for this to be a City project, since the result is a newly rebuilt complete street.

[Third Strike]

Trade Street has been resurfaced so many times that it's better to just start over.  All the more reason for this to be a City project, since the result is a newly rebuilt complete street.

This begs the question, but would construction costs of the streetcar along Central Avenue (after Plaza-Midwood) be cheaper than the construction in areas near Uptown? They did a streetscape along this stretch a few years ago, so I'm assuming utilities were modernized in the process.

[DEnd]

This begs the question, but would construction costs of the streetcar along Central Avenue (after Plaza-Midwood) be cheaper than the construction in areas near Uptown? They did a streetscape along this stretch a few years ago, so I'm assuming utilities were modernized in the process.

It could likely be cheaper, depending on how they do it.  There is room on Central to put the street car in the median, that would be more expensive and take longer

[Spartan]

I think Charlotte's way of doing it makes a lot of sense. It's the City's obligation to think about infrastructure in terms of decades, and CMUD/Charlotte Water likes to take advantage of other construction projects to maintain its lines. They likely save a ton of money on construction costs by combining their work with other projects due to economies of scale. While it does extend the time to design and build a project, it's a better use of resources to do everything at once. It's likely that they won't need to do any major work on the streetcar routes for 20-30 years (if not longer) other than basic resurfacing or connecting new development to the existing lines.

Also, in uptown, a lot of streets were rebuilt in the 60s-70s with concrete, which has a different substructure than asphalt. I would expect the reconstruction of the street is necessary with the conversion back to asphalt - keeping in mind that prior to the DNC, they just threw down asphalt on top of the concrete that was already there.

 

[Deleted.]

Just a calendar reminder. The Full Funding Grant Agreement (FFGA) for Phase 2 of the Gold Line should be signed by the Federal Transit Administration and the city sometime in the next month. 

Assuming that happens as planned, construction on Phase 2 should begin next May.

 

 

Is this still going to happen? Or is it expected in 2016? I'm confused about when we will get funding and when we will start construction. 

[kermit]

Is this still going to happen? Or is it expected in 2016? I'm confused about when we will get funding and when we will start construction. 

Uptownliving posted upthread that the FFGA (its technically a Small Starts Grant Agreement SSGA) will not be signed until March. The last CATS quarterly report to the FTA (September 2015) did say the agreement would be executed in October, but Uptownliving is very rarely wrong.  UL also discussed that the FTA will provide the city with its blessing to go ahead and get the modern vehicle ordering process started now (before the phase two grant is official).

The same quarterly report said construction would start in August 2016 -- I have not heard any adjustments to that schedule due to delayed grant execution.

 

Edited October 25, 2015 by kermit

[Deleted.]

^Oh it's making my head spin. 

So for the SSGA, it's either:

1) October, as in the FTA Quaterly Review 

2) March 2016, as said by Uptownliving

And for starting construction:

1) May 2016, which I swear I've read somewhere, but I may be wrong 

2) August 2016, as in the FTA Quaterly Review 

3) Late 2016, as said on the charmeck website 

So is it most likely, it's going to be SSGA in March and construction in August? If so, why does the FTA Quaterly Review say October for SSGA? 

Edited October 26, 2015 by Piedmont767

[kermit]

^Oh it's making my head spin. 

So for the SSGA, it's either:

1) October

2) March 2016

And for starting construction:

1) May 2016 

2) August 2016

3) Late 2016 

So is it most likely, it's going to be SSGA in March and construction in August? If so, why does the FTA Quaterly Review say October for SSGA? 

I had not heard the May date for starting construction. I would bet on "Late 2016" for construction start date.

I suspect that CATS encountered a small documentation obstacle  after the FTA meeting that required the delay to March on the SSGA. The permission from the FTA to begin ordering the vehicles is a strong indication that there are not significant problems and the grant is virtually certain. I would have preferred that the SSGA was signed before the election but I suspect we are far enough down the rabbit hole now that little can disrupt the process.