Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[kermit]

CIP discussions and vote have been punted into Spring.

 

Methinks the council really needs to find some sack and decide this thing....

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/12/17/3732044/city-council-no-capital-spending.html

 

EDIT: CBJ version http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2012/12/charlotte-budget-pushed-into-2013.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2012-12-17&page=all

Edited December 17, 2012 by kermit

[Missmylab4]

Pathetic!!

[atlrvr]

I haven't commented yet but figured I'd share by two cents.

 

I think this is really a referendum by the council on their confidence in the mayor, and I don't see Foxx getting re-elected either due to this fiasco.  Also, the failure to do this at the time of the county tax decrease made this politically unacceptable to "tepid" allies.

 

This is a good time for John Lassiter to Pat Mumford to challenge as a moderate Republican who can build consensus.

 

I'm slightly torn on the streetcar, as I'm not sure its the best use of dollars in the near-term beyond the cost of extending it to Gateway Station (though obviously understand why that wasn't an option for political reasons), though I do think long term the streetcar should be built, though I'm not convinced it should be as long as conceived.  The fact is that streetcar is an urban transit solution that requires high levels of ridership to support it's capital costs.  I don't buy the argument that this is going to stimulate new development beyond Morningside (maybe Briar Creek) because the rents in east Charlotte are so low that it is nearly impossible to develop new market rate housing, office, retail.  It IS going to stiumlate development along Elizabeth Ave, between JCSU and I-77 and in Plaza-Midwood, the latter two areas obviously benefitting from this extension.

 

That said, trying to sell a $120MM extension that has real, quantifiable benfits that I assume a great share of the population would understand and the completion of an ENTIRE transit line, as opposed to just a small part of a huge line that will cost over 1/2 Billion that is much harder to quantify the future benetis is really really tough for me. 

 

To go along with idea that they really missed the public relations side of this:

 

• Demonstrating the cost savings of co-ordinating this extension with the federally-funded starter section as opposed to how much it would cost as a stand-alone 2nd phase.
• If built together, I would argue you could legitimately say the federal government would be paying almost 20% of the cost (starter plus this extension) instead of just city taxpayers.
• Indicate value of projects in the planning phase that this would accelerate (Grubb Properties and W Trade).
• Inclusion of modern tram/streetcars showing this is real transit and not a toy choo choo.

In my opinion, CATS really needs to re-think which rail based transit options shold serve what purposes.  My thoughts would be:

• Streetcar - No longer 5 miles, with stations no further than 7 blocks apart (1/2 mile).  Densities within 1/4 mile radius around stations must be expected to exceed 40k/sm within some reasonable period (15 years??).
• LRT - No Longer than 20 miles with stations no further than 1 mile apart.  Densisities within 1/2 miles radius station must be expected to exceed 15/sm or 5,000 jobs or some combination of both.
• Commuter Rail - No Longer than 60 miles, with stations no closer than 1.5 miles apart and no further than 5 miles apart.  Population within 10 minute drivetime should exceed 20,000 currently.

More lines that effectively serve greater densities to justify their costs should be the goal, so instead of 1 10-mile street-car line, 3 3-mile lines focusing on the core and connections with other lines should be the end goal AND it has the political advantage of being able to complete whole lines quickly as opposed to 5 phases and 20 years.

[southslider]

If still aiming for a bond vote in November 2013, Council ultimately has until next summer to decide.  However, around that same time, challengers can start announcing their candidacy for the September primary, which then sets up the November ballot potentially shared with the bonds.

 

When Foxx decided to veto the tax-neutral CIP, he not only missed an opportunity to place the bond vote on the higher-turnout Presidential ballot, but he also risked making the bonds an even bigger campain issue for 2013, where he would (if he seeks re-election and wins the primary) also be on the ballot.  It's almost as if Foxx actually wanted to make his and every Councilmember's re-election a referendum vote on the divisive Streetcar.

 

Just as Congress failed to avert the fiscal cliff before the Presidential election, thinking they would get a new Executive, it doesn't look like there will be any CIP passed befoe next year's Municipal election.  But let's at least hope that post-election, unlike the fiscal cliff talks now, that the newly (re?) elected Mayor and Council will then be able to avert Charlotte' cliff-- a credit rating downgrading, by finally passing a CIP for 2014 bonds.

[kermit]

The FTA has changed its small starts program to reduce emphasis on travel time savings against alternatives and increase emphasis on "anticipated benefits to human health, energy use, air quality and safety" as well as greater emphasis on economic development.

 

While federal funding for the streetcar remains a -long- shot, these changes may make federal funds for streetcar expansion a possibility.

 

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/prdailynews/news.asp?id=34816

Edited January 10, 2013 by kermit

[dubone]

I don't totally understand what is up with the streetcar funding from the feds.  A long time ago when the streetcar was being pushed for and supported by CATS, their consultants and project managers had always talked like FTA small starts would be an option for the streetcar, but then it got to be of a budget estimate that was not even in the small starts category.  It would be great for the city to hopefully work to set aside some money like ~$30m and hopefully get CATS to match it, and then leverage that into some federal funds to make it a decent segment of the plans.   My own personal hope for the project is the get the section that Curt Walton had proposed (French St to Central Ave), so it would be nice to spend less local money and ask the feds to pay half of it.  

 

But on the other hand, I see all these other cities with funded streetcar projects (including Charlotte), but don't know enough of whether they were all funded with stimulus-type funds or whether they went through a standard FTA request.  14 cities have just started construction on 1-4 mile long streetcar lines.  I will probably now go through each and try to see how they were funded, but it would seem that with so many that it was probably due to federal funds opening up to them.  Then, considering the feds paid for most of our first line, why would we not be trying to push for federal support for an extension?

 

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2013/01/01/openings-and-construction-starts-planned-for-2013/

 

New Transit Capital Projects Opening in 2013

• Atlanta Downtown Streetcar (2.6-mile streetcar), opening in late 2013 from Martin Luther King, Jr. National Historic Site to Centennial Olympic Park
• New Orleans UPT/Loyola Avenue Corridor (1-mile streetcar), opening in January from Union Passenger Terminal to Canal Street.
• Salt Lake City Sugar House Streetcar (2-mile streetcar), opening in December 2013.
• Tucson Modern Streetcar (3.9-mile streetcar), from University of Arizona to Downtown Tucson.
• Washington, DC H Street/Benning Road Streetcar (streetcar), from Union Station to Oklahoma Avenue.

Already Under Construction, Opening After 2013

Opening in 2014

• Seattle First Hill Streetcar (2.2-mile streetcar), from Capitol Hill to King Street Station, via Broadway.

Opening in 2015

• Charlotte Streetcar (Phase 1) (1.5-mile streetcar), from downtown transit center to Presbyterian Hospital.

 

New Construction Starts in 2013

• Cincinnati Downtown Streetcar (2-mile streetcar), opening in 2015 from Over-the-Rhine to Riverfront.
• Dallas Oak Cliff Streetcar (1.5-mile streetcar), opening in 2014 from downtown Dallas to Oak Cliff.
• Detroit M1 Rail (3.4-mile streetcar), opening in 2015 from downtown Detroit to New Center.
• Kansas City Streetcar (2-mile streetcar), opening in 2015 on Main Street Downtown.
• Los Angeles Downtown Streetcar (streetcar), opening in 2015 in a loop from Civic Center to Fashion District and Staples Center, via Financial District.
• New Orleans French Quarter Expansion Project (2.5-mile streetcar), opening in 2015 from Canal Street to Esplanade Avenue.
• St. Louis Loop Trolley (streetcar), opening in 2014 from Missouri History Museum to University Gate.

[kermit]

In less than two weeks I have become very annoyed with our new governor:

 

Memo: McCrory threatens light-rail money over streetcar

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/01/31/3825774/city-mccrory-threatens-light-rail.html#storylink=cpy

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/01/31/3825774/city-mccrory-threatens-light-rail.html

 

here is the memo that reports on the kerfuffle: http://media.charlotteobserver.com/smedia/2013/01/31/18/33/FmhtU.So.138.pdf

 

Regardless you view on the merits of the streetcar its truely unbelievable that he is sticking his nose into a local transit project (that does not use state money). It appears that he is acting on instructions from his openly anti-transit boss, Governor Pope.

Edited February 1, 2013 by kermit

[southslider]

Yikes, big mature trees along East Trade Street are now forever gone.  I guess that's a sign streetcar construction will start soon.  But if that's what it takes to create a bus on tracks, many won't be so thrilled about building even more streetcar elsewhere in "Tree City".

Edited February 1, 2013 by southslider

[HopHead]

While I'm not necessarily on board with the local proposals to fund the streetcar, for McCrory to potentially hold the light rail money hostage over how the city of Charlotte chooses to spend its own money is absolutely ridiculous. Worry about State politics, Pat. That's your job. Very disappointed in his stance. This bullying BS won't fly. 

[Miesian Corners]

I can and will say (proudly) that I did not vote for Art Pope--er-- I mean, Pat McCrory for governor. This is what we can expect for the next four years. 

Edited February 1, 2013 by Miesian Corners

[Urbanity]

I absolutely detest what McCrory is doing.  It's the height hypocrisy to run on a platform of less government in people's lives and now using State Government to blackmail the city (and it is blackmail) to not build a streetcar.   What's really amazing is that I think the city was talking about local TIFs and if the Governor has an issue with that why doesn't the Governor (via Thom Tillis) have an issue with local taxes being used for the Panthers?

 

It's a bunch of caca is what it is. 

 

That said - I feel almost a little bit of Foxx got what he gave by doing the same thing to the City Council with the CIP to a degree by forcing the streetcar issue.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Urbanity

[dubone]

This is insane.   Instead of McCheese being HELPFUL for the city by having been our mayor for a decade, he is bringing his opinions on city matters and making it a STATE issue.

 

But it officially not only underscores his previously-announced opinion that there should be no increase in transit funding beyond the half-cent sales tax, but that he will take it further to the point of risking a large federal grant.   

 

If the city wants to figure out a way to build some project, ANY project, for the purpose of economic development, and pay for it entirely at the local level, what is the problem with that?   Be it stadium, or streetcar, or a new road... 

 

So we are pretty much hurt by being from Charlotte rather than helped.  

[Missmylab4]

Has construction on the starter line been delayed?? I have yet to notice any construction on the initial segment.

[ah59396]

Drive down Trade, there is a ton of work going on.

Edited February 5, 2013 by ah59396

[ajfunder]

Lots of utility work is underway, especially around the jail. Actual track won't start going in until this summer according to a friend of mine who is working on the project.

Alex

[kermit]

The McPope administration has dug in its heels in its effort to stop Charlotte from paying for its own streetcar.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/02/05/3835640/rhetoric-proposals-on-streetcar.html

 

I am starting to get the feeling that any streetcar extension will need to wait until we either have a new legislature or 2017 (BLE completion).

Edited February 6, 2013 by kermit

[Guest]

I just can't wrap my head around the fact that the Red line is a priority Over the street car. 

[Matthew.Brendan]

I thought the red line was going nowhere fast?

[Guest]

I thought the red line was going nowhere fast?

And yet thats what the state feels should be a priority over the Street car. 

[cltbwimob]

The McPope administration has dug in its heels in its effort to stop Charlotte from paying for its own streetcar.

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/02/05/3835640/rhetoric-proposals-on-streetcar.html

 

I am starting to get the feeling that any streetcar extension will need to wait until we either have a new legislature or 2017 (BLE completion).

Mayor Foxx has gotten himself into a fight with the wrong people, and there is nothing but loss on the horizon, whether that be loss of the streetcar, or loss of the BLE, something will have to give.  If the mayor is prudent, he will bow out, however, I no longer see Mayor Foxx as being the nuanced, pragmatic politician that I saw in 2009.  He has resorted to the age old tactic of questioning motives of other politicians by implying that they are either racist or do not care for low income people if they question the validity of the streetcar.  He can not win the argument on the merits of streetcar as a functional transit system as his arguments in favor of the project are weak and intellectually indefensible.  As a result, he has resorted to hurling insults at the very people who hold the purse strings.  The problem is now that he looks desperate.  He, like Mike Tyson in his fight with Evander Holyfield, is now looking for the cheap shot in a fight that is otherwise a lost cause.  And he will lose this one.  But more importantly, Charlotte will lose if Mayor Foxx continues to insist on the streetcar at the peril of the BLE.  The BLE is exponentially more important than this streetcar project or any other streetcar line in the 2030 plan, and creating such a chasm between himself and the legislature regarding these projects will only serve to weaken Charlotte.  He must realize that a "partnership with Raleigh" to which he likes to refer, is not just a relationship whereby he can send Raleigh his wishlist and Raleigh will reciprocate with the checkbook.  Partnership implies consent from both parties under the auspices of contract, and if he is willing to break that contract, then the state is by no means obligated to uphold their end of the bargain.

 

I happen to agree with the governor and the state on this issue.  The mayor has no problem with the state's meddling as long as the money is flowing from Raleigh to Charlotte, but the minute Charlotte's finances are called into question, the state is told to butt out.  If the state is providing a large portion of the funding for our transit system, then they are stakeholders in the system just like local governments.  And they, as a stakeholder, should have a say in the direction of the system just like large shareholders of private companies should be able to wield their influence over the respective companies within which they have a vested interest.  

 

I will finish by posing this question:  If an individual were struggling to pay his bills, and received financial help from his parents, and then he wasted his own money on parties, would the parents of said individual not be 100% justified in their indignation, and have every right to suspend financing to the individual, especially if said individual had told the parents to butt out of his finances?   

Edited February 6, 2013 by cltbwimob

[kermit]

I can understand McCrory's argument, but it feels profoundly hypocritical coming from him. McCrory, more than anyone, understands the economic development benefits of rail transit. While the streetcar has some issues as transit, it seems pretty clear that it has huge potential to densify (and gentrify) in-town Charlotte.

 

Aborting the streetcar extension will almost certainly come at the cost of development. Since I had always assumed that economic development was a primary goal of the state this posturing looks counterproductive.

[cltbwimob]

I can understand McCrory's argument, but it feels profoundly hypocritical coming from him. McCrory, more than anyone, understands the economic development benefits of rail transit. While the streetcar has some issues as transit, it seems pretty clear that it has huge potential to densify (and gentrify) in-town Charlotte.

 

Aborting the streetcar extension will almost certainly come at the cost of development. Since I had always assumed that economic development was a primary goal of the state this posturing looks counterproductive.

But it is not counterproductive.  At first, I like everyone else on this thread thought this was another sign of McCrory's pandering to the JLF types.  But McCrory is right on this issue, and I believe it would be wise of the mayor to listen to the governor.

 

If the state is providing significant funding to portions of the transit system, then they, by definition, are a stakeholder.  On a percentage basis, the state as a whole has a stake roughly equivalent to that of the MTC.  With such a large taxpayer investment, they have the moral obligation to ensure that the funding is spent appropriately.  Spending statewide money on a single county transit system has already caused some to question the "appropriateness" [if I may use such a word] of the contractual framework as it currently exists.  Undermining the framework on which the MTC and the half-cent sales tax was founded by flanking the MTC and setting countywide transit priorities at the city level has alienated the contingent of legislators who have sought to maintain a "good-faith" partnership with local transit authorities.  In simpler terms, spending local money that is said  to not exist for the purpose of transit funding on transit projects and re-prioritizing said projects outside the framework of the MTC represents a blatant disregard for the confines of the "contract" as it were.  In even simpler terms, it represents the city writing the rules by which it will play without the consent of the other stakeholders; in this case the state.  Because of this, a legislature that is already anti-transit in nature may find themselves emboldened to cut funding for the transit project that is currently in the pipeline.  They have a logical argument for doing so when they say "If the local governements can find funding for there projects, then why are state funds needed." furthermore, according to the language of the grant agreement, they have the legal authority to back out of the deal.  Therefore McCrory has implored the mayor to tread lightly, which has caused the mayor to verbally strike at the state.  This is a no win situation for Foxx.  It is the political equivalent of playing Russian roulette with a magazine fed pistol rather than a revolver. [you will get shot if you attempt such a stunt]  Foxx would be best served by bowing out at this point, as he has absolutely no room to bargain with a legislature that is overwhelmingly Republican.

 

While it may seem hypocritical coming from McCrory, we must remind ourselves that he did preside over this city during it's rise to prominence, and has done more for the benefit of this city than Mayor Foxx ever has.  We must also remind ourselves that arguing a transit project strictly on it's merits as an economic driver is  fundamentally flawed.  The 2030 plan was conceived as a Transit-Land use plan.  If we fail to argue the transit benefits of a project and choose instead to focus on economic development potential, then we have ignored the most important concept in such a plan.  Streetcar's claims as a viable transit alternative are dubious at best.  As such, if its claims as a transit alternative are dubious, then it follows that it's merits as a land development tool may also be overstated.  This has been the case in Portland.  Everyone touts Portland as a model of Streetcar's economic development potential, yet these claims may have been grossly overstated.  For instance, some properties along the streetcar were heavily subsidized for redevelopment, and some were not.  As a result, it is estimated that the properties that were subsidized garnered $75 of redevelopment money for every $1 for the non-subsidized properties. 

Edited February 6, 2013 by cltbwimob

[nowensone]

^ I agree with most of what you are saying though a couple of things jump out at me, one, while Meck is one of 100 counties, it represents 10% of the state population, and is a major economic driver for the state, and arguably an overall growth driver for more ephemeral reasons as well (eg prestige/national exposure, sports, etc.).  Two, and perhaps it is because we are transit newborns compared to older-larger cities, I'd say we can expect economic development to be directly and successfully created from major transit developments, SouthEnd seems to be a clear indicator of this (ignoring how some of it has been done in a haphazard/misguided manner).

[gman430]

It's like watching a very bad car crash happen right in front of your eyes. You want to look away but just can't: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/02/06/3836293/4-in-gop-join-charlotte-streetcar.html

[ah59396]

^i agree. I keep getting this uneasy feeling that Foxx has decided that this streetcar is "his" project and getting it will somehow make his career. He's decided he will do whatever it takes to get it done, regardless of merit, and without the full interest of Charlotte in his mind. His only thought process being, "it's a fight I've got to win".