Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[Green_man]

Mary Newsome has a nice discussion of Streetcar financing alternatives over at the Urban Institute blog.

Sounds like there are several promising options if only Raleigh would get out of the way....

http://plancharlotte...tm_medium=email

By the way, I saw no mention of Raleigh. Maybe you mean the General Assembly (representatives from all over the state)? Raleigh would also like commuter rail and light rail, but is hard pressed for funding as well. Be glad you have the transit that you do.

[ah59396]

If streetcar weren't in mixed traffic, do you think there would be less opposition? You could still tap alternative funding sources, build segments incrementally, and use modern, low-floor, max-capacity vehicles.

Streetcar has virtually become a buzzword and talking point for republicans, much like the now tainted "sustainability". It's silly really, as a true conservative should have their ideals directly fall in line with the two. Short term cost for long term growth and investment. It's a shame that politics has to get in the way of sensibility. So, no, it's going to be a polarizing issue for the unforseeable future.

Edited November 2, 2012 by ah59396

[carolinagarnet]

We all know that opposition is less about the quality of the projects and more about winning easy points. Since politicians on both sides refuse to tackle entitlements (60% of government spending) and defense appropriations (20% of government spending) are still touchy, infrastructure spending is an easy target. Sadly the "highways are subsidized too" argument does not sell very well to non-supporters. At any rate, infrastructure spending is going to fall out regardless of who is elected. Such a shame.

[dubone]

By the way, I saw no mention of Raleigh. Maybe you mean the General Assembly (representatives from all over the state)? Raleigh would also like commuter rail and light rail, but is hard pressed for funding as well. Be glad you have the transit that you do.

It is a very common shorthand to refer to the capital city by name but be referring to the government in place in that city. When we are having talks with "Moscow", it's not with the city, it's with the Russian government. When "Washington" is inept or corrupt, it is referring to federal government, not the city. So it isn't a city vs city thing when someone says Raleigh when referring to the state DOT or General Assembly.

___

The GOP and the conservatives in general know that their main supporters are suburbanites out in the sprawl, so of course they find it easy to target urban transit projects as boondoggle, but not expensive rural freeways with tiny traffic volumes. But at the end of the day, our city can not any longer grow outward, so it must go to the next level and promote densification within the city. The most obvious place for that to happen is in the neighborhoods within 2-3 miles radius of Trade and Tryon, as they have grid-like streets, walkability. With mass transit, these neighborhoods have a focal infrastructure to allow these urban dwellers to live a life outside of their automobiles, hopping on transit to go about many of their activities. Buses simply do not inspire that type of life like rail lines do.

[Missmylab4]

So has construction started on the starter portion of the streetcar?? I remember hearing it would start in November??

[tozmervo]

Ground's supposed to break in December or January. I've been keeping an eye out for more news, there's supposed to be another community meeting about what to expect during construction. (Trade is my bike commute to work, so I'll know pretty quickly when dirt's moving.)

[ah59396]

So has construction started on the starter portion of the streetcar?? I remember hearing it would start in November??

Sort of, but it's not exciting. A lot of utility work, underground stuff from what it looks like.

[Missmylab4]

I really hope they include the street car extension in the revived CIP. It will be very sad to see the retro cars tinker up to the hospital trying to run the starter route. Will not help convince the suburbanites see the value in the streetcar. Its also very sad there will be no connection between the blue line and the gateway station. In my opinion extremely poor foresight.

[tozmervo]

well, the blue line started as a trolley route.

[15895]

I really hope they include the street car extension in the revived CIP. It will be very sad to see the retro cars tinker up to the hospital trying to run the starter route. Will not help convince the suburbanites see the value in the streetcar. Its also very sad there will be no connection between the blue line and the gateway station. In my opinion extremely poor foresight.

Gateway is not built yet. It's terminus would be a Parking lot as opposed to Charlotte's Transportation Hub including the Light Rail. Besides, I think there would be technical issues since Gateway as of now is still just a concept and not in final stages of development.

As long as we have a Trolleys tinkering up and down Trade, it helps the agenda of getting full funding by the fact that we have a 1.5 mile line, why not just go ahead and extend it. I believe Nov. 24th is the next time Foxx and the city get together to talk about the Streetcar.

With Obama winning the election, who knows what CLT will do in regards to this street car. I really, really, really, would love to get this line funded. Hopefully the Redline gets funded soon also. With the Red line, Blue Line Extension, and Streetcar network, we'll have an amazing rail system. For North Carolina, obviously.

McCrory keeps bringing up Governments role in transportation over and over again. I wonder if he'd give us some state money... Didn't he say he was against raising the transit tax in CLT for Streetcar?

Edited November 10, 2012 by AirNostrumMAD

[kermit]

^ The current holdup on the red line is the agreement with Norfolk Southern, funding questions can't be addressed until that agreement is in hand. However, Norfolk Southern is not in a hurry.

Given the election (and the surprisingly close presidential race in NC) The TIGER grant program should continue and Charlotte might be able to put together a substantively and politically compelling application for the streetcar segment from the CTC to Gateway. While this is a "long-odds" approach, getting the streetcar built in small stages might be the most realistic strategy given the local political climate.

IIRC TIGER grants historically maxed out at $25million. This should be an appropriate amont to extend the streetcar from the CTC to Trade and Sycamore. Portland paid $12.4 million per mile for their initial streetcar loop (including new vehicles). The TIGER application would be strong since Charlotte can make the case that the Gateway station link to LRT and the remainder of downtown makes the extension 'transformative' and would substantially improve mobility of both Charlotteans and visitors.

Once the public can see the streetcar as tangible and useful (rather than an abstract and highly controversial "toy") then perhaps selling extensions as a development tool will be easier. With some luck a developer might propose a mega project (most likely in the Central/Hawthorne area) which could be presented as contingent upon streetcar expansion. I do fear that the use of replica trolleys may exacerbate the "toy" imagery and sticking with them will damage prospects of expanding the streetcar into a useful rail transit network.

Edited November 11, 2012 by kermit

[ajfunder]

Those heritage cars are nice but my biggest fear is that is what most people will expect for the entire route. Maybe the city could lease a modern streetcar from a manufacturer like Siemens once the starter line is built just to give people a better idea what a modern streetcar would look like. Siemens and the city could use the lease to promote the modern streetcar, and when the line is extended the city could purchase modern cars from Siemens, the city gets a longer streetcar, Seimens gets the contract to build the streetcars. (I bring up Siemens because they seem to have a good relationship with Charlotte, our current LRT fleet consists of 20 Siemens S70 LRV's with 22 more on the way, and Siemens builds streetcars similar to the S70 which will soon be operating in Atlanta.)

[dubone]

It is true, and often forgotten, that the trolley line built from 9th to Tremont was a major impetus to getting people engaged and excited about a longer transit line. Obviously most people will have the ability to know that a starter line with the replica trolleys is just that, for starters, and can have longer/larger vehicles when the need is there and the line is longer.

I still wish there were a way to get the costs down. It is just hard to believe it is so expensive just to put some tracks and wires in. Is there not a cheaper way to do that or do rules require more?

[Missmylab4]

Great idea AJ, the city really needs to pursue this option!! The difference between a replica trolley and modern streetcar is vast.

[15895]

Great idea AJ, the city really needs to pursue this option!! The difference between a replica trolley and modern streetcar is vast.

That is exactly what Foxx says. Hence he vetoed the bill in hopes to get streetcar included. Nov. 24th is the next time they meet. Foxx is fighting hard

[thetrick]

I still wish there were a way to get the costs down. It is just hard to believe it is so expensive just to put some tracks and wires in. Is there not a cheaper way to do that or do rules require more?

My understanding is that the most expensive part is utility relocation. You can't have utilities that run under the track in a way that they could not be repaired without removing the track from service. Downtown streets are a maze of buried electrical, water, sewer and data lines that all have to be moved from under the track. The portion of track that was installed by CPCC was done in part because heavy utility relocations were being done in conjunction with construction at CPCC.

[dubone]

When it is 50-75% funded by the feds and state, then it makes sense to frame it as a large project in which all of the prerequisites are funded. But the beauty of streetcars is that they can be seemingly built in a very scalable way. Given that the project is 100% funded locally, it would have been better salesmanship politically to take the pre-requisites, but still necessary projects, like streetscaping and utility re-organization ought to be separate projects whose merits can be explained independently.

I'm sure that the utilities in the heart of uptown between the arena and Gateway Village are in need of upgrade and modernization.

[kermit]

Balfour Beatty get the starter segment construction contract.

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/light-rail/balfour-beatty-lands-charlotte-streetcar-contract.html#.UKOjZGt5mSM

The award of the contract seems awfully late in the process.

[15895]

I hope this combined with gateway station is enough to get the streetcar funded!

I will be sick to my stomach if streetcar doesnt get funding

[Missmylab4]

Agreed, I'd rather have this built out than a domed panther stadium.

[kermit]

Streetcar expansion funding attempt #3 on Monday night.....

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/11/25/3688184/city-to-try-again-on-streetcar.html

[15895]

Hopefully this gets passed and maybe afterwards we can shoot for The airport extension. Didn't Jerry Orr say he'd use airport funds to help fund a line out there? That, and maybe for the rosa parks extensions, shoot for federal dollars.

Anyone think it will be passed tonight?

[Missmylab4]

I hope so.

50-50 IMHO

[Urbanity]

I hope so as well but I won't even guess on the likelihood.

[kermit]

Given the funding difficulties I am not sure this is hugely relevant but I just noticed this quote in the article linked above:

The starter line would be the first phase of a proposed, larger streetcar line to run from the Eastland Mall area through uptown, where it would branch to two destinations: Charlotte Douglas International Airport and Rosa Parks Transit Center

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/11/26/3688184/city-to-try-again-on-streetcar.html#storylink=cpy

I have not heard overt talk of an airport link in this round of funding talks, sounds like the airport link was added to broaden support for the extension.