Charlotte Center City Streetcar Network

[Missmylab4]

Who will choose this over a bus during the winter or extreme days of the summer?? I know I wouldn't.

[kermit]

While I agree that the replica cars are sub-optimal, they at least are fully climate controlled.

 

^its shocking how stark the photo above looks compared to today.

Edited November 30, 2012 by kermit

[tozmervo]

I'd certainly choose it over the red line trolly bus (though I take your point), and this is exactly what was running in Southend before the LYNX was built. 

[ah59396]

That thing is awful.  I'm sorry.  I know fiscally it makes sense, and in the interim will work great for people like us who understand what will be the future.  But as it's already been stated here, it just further creates the "tinker toy" concept of the line.  The biggest issue with our transportation future right now is marketing.  Just like any business, you need to sell you product.  Streetcar/Tram/whatever is already a difficult sell in this economy and I feel like they aren't even trying to sway the public's mind on this one.

 

They need a comprehensive marketing plan, unleashed upon the greater Mecklenburg area that details fully what the expectations are from this and how this is truly an investment, like light rail, and not a novelty, like the NASCAR HOF.  Because right now, that's how it's perceived.

 

Having ^that^ stock, rolling up and down a 1 mile stretch of Elizabeth road is a marketing disaster and most will have difficulty understanding how it is any different from the current Gold Rush line that does the same trek for free.  It will travel at roughly the same speed, be stuck in the same traffic and carry the same amount of people.  Terrible decision.  Curt Walton simply quoting "it helps create development" is just not enough.  They need to get it together.

 

Rant over.

[15895]

^ to be fair, that's why Foxx and Walton are pushing so hard for the extension so they can use modern streetcars from the beginning.

I believe he was even quoted (or the council member from east Charlotte) using the term "tinker toy" in the most recent observer article while you were in Amsterdam. If they include the JSCU extension, the starter project and the extension should open at the same time.

[dubone]

The red trolley buses are awful to ride in, whereas these replicas are smooth and decent, although it is wooden seating.  The trolley line to SouthEnd was mocked but also visited a lot by families.  Now it is less of a novelty to have a rail line in town, but it absolutely is a solid replacement to the tiny Gold Rush buses that are uncomfortable, yet are one of the highest ridership lines in the city.  I think if they could just get this line to Gateway, they'll get all that Gold Rush ridership, plus the tourist [ride for fun] riders, plus some additional riders that now think it is safe and decent because of the higher quality of line versus the buses.

 

But I do very much hope that some extension gets approved by the city, at least the 1 mile to Gateway, and we would be ok.   

 

I like the idea of the loaner of a modern tram, but they are so expensive, I bet it would not be likely.  

[ah59396]

^ to be fair, that's why Foxx and Walton are pushing so hard for the extension so they can use modern streetcars from the beginning.

I believe he was even quoted (or the council member from east Charlotte) using the term "tinker toy" in the most recent observer article while you were in Amsterdam. If they include the JSCU extension, the starter project and the extension should open at the same time.

 

 

Yeah, I am also in favor of getting a full fledged extension so that the modern cars can be used as well.  I'm just concerned about the perception of this initial line.  Like I said, people like us who spend our waking hours pouring over TOD and renders of proposals 8 years out understand that ^the trolley^ is a means to an end.  The general public does not and the will matter and have a voice.

 

The red trolley buses are awful to ride in, whereas these replicas are smooth and decent, although it is wooden seating.  The trolley line to SouthEnd was mocked but also visited a lot by families.  Now it is less of a novelty to have a rail line in town, but it absolutely is a solid replacement to the tiny Gold Rush buses that are uncomfortable, yet are one of the highest ridership lines in the city.  I think if they could just get this line to Gateway, they'll get all that Gold Rush ridership, plus the tourist [ride for fun] riders, plus some additional riders that now think it is safe and decent because of the higher quality of line versus the buses.

 

But I do very much hope that some extension gets approved by the city, at least the 1 mile to Gateway, and we would be ok.   

 

I like the idea of the loaner of a modern tram, but they are so expensive, I bet it would not be likely.  

 

 

The issue here is the bulk of Charlotteans do not currently ride the red trolley buses and will not ride the starter line.  It will all be about what they see when they are driving by or in a restaurant as it rumbles down the street.  I agree with you on the comfort, and those that use it regularly will likely see an immediate impact.  Again, it's all about how it looks here if we want to sell it to the general public.

 

A comprehensive marketing plan is necessary beyond just Foxx and Walton getting up there and talking about how great it will be.  Why are there not more renders in the Observer of the full line, with pics of the stops and modern trams?  Even as ads?  Or on the streets in uptown?  Or on the sides of the Lynx?  I just want to see them selling it more and helping people understand how great it could be.  That's all.

[Missmylab4]

Agree it's always a rendering showing the replica trolley, that isn't modern which make the Bill James of the world laugh at it. I'm really worried about the future of the tram, if the extension isnt included. Ah59 has the perception right how most the city will drive by this trolley, and find it useless. I'm doom and gloom usually but I really think there will be ramifications for the future of the tram if only the starter line with replicas is used. It's all about first impressions!

[Matthew.Brendan]

I don't really follow this all too closely, but personally I feel that even considering the idea of using replicas is ridiculous.

And that is exactly what I picture when I hear 'streetcar'.

Depressing but not surprising to see that seems to be what is happening?

[ajfunder]

I have been watching RTD (Denver) videos and Tuscon streetcar videos on YouTube and there websites. RTD has videos showing there proposed rail lines when completed. The Tuscon videos show how a streetcar interacts in traffic and provides a virtual model of what the completed streetcar system is going to look like. Why doesn't CATS or the city make these virtual videos and release them to the public? It would help them sell the streetcar. Currently when there is a news story about the streetcar, they always depict one of the Gomaco cars or nothing at all.

[ah59396]

You mean you haven't seen the promotional StreetCar video the city has put out on Youtube???

 

[tozmervo]

a little redubbing and creative video editing and portland has already made the video for us.

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2012 by tozmervo

[ah59396]

^ Love that.  What a great video to explain what is going on in Portland.

 

Also, check out Toronto's new rolling stock...

 

http://www.blogto.com/city/2012/11/ttc_officially_unveils_its_new_bombardier_streetcars/

 

 

We need more stuff like this to show what Charlotte would have.  Great looking vehicles.

[carolinagarnet]

<p>I know the old fashioned street cars are not ideal and give the wrong impression, but I still think they will attract ridership. I think a lot of people in the South tend to be afraid of buses because they associate them with crime and African-Americans (unfortunately in an negative way). Trolleys, although they scream boondoggle, put a better face on public transport and make them seem more palatable. That said, the modern trams are pretty incredible looking. I would love to see those moving through Uptown.</p>

Edited November 30, 2012 by carolinagarnet

[tozmervo]

I am told that the groundbreaking for the starter segment will be December 12 at 10am up by Presby. 

[ah59396]

All jokes aside, I'm excited about it breaking ground!

[Missmylab4]

I as well, I just don't want to wait until 2020 for the extension and modern cars.

[ah59396]

This is a good video from Cincinnati, again promoting their new streetcar.  It shows what the rolling stock would like and how it would actually impact the economy.  It is certainly political, but it does much more than a quote from Mayor Foxx in the Charlotte Observer.

 

It even gives a shout out (though I think premature) to Charlotte at the 2:29 mark and again a little later on. 

 

[kermit]

The Chamber is reluctant to support the Tram. This is a big problem since the Chamber is typically the entity which campaingns in support of bond referrenda (the city is prohibited from doing it)..

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/12/04/3706223/chamber-cautious-about-backing.html

[Guest]

The Chamber is reluctant to support the Tram. This is a big problem since the Chamber is typically the entity which campaingns in support of bond referrenda (the city is prohibited from doing it)..

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/12/04/3706223/chamber-cautious-about-backing.html

Its ass holes like Mark Washburn that are keeping the perception of the Streetcar line so negative. Its not a FREAKING TROLLEY! Yes they will run trolleys on it in the temporary, but not for long if the extension is just approved!

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/12/04/3705897/we-may-not-say-it-but-we-mean.html

[ah59396]

Are we sure they didn't begin work already?  The intersection of Elizabeth/Trade and Kings has been completely shut down for 2 days now.  I'd be stunned if that was related to something Streetcar oriented.

[Prodev]

Its ass holes like Mark Washburn that are keeping the perception of the Streetcar line so negative. Its not a FREAKING TROLLEY! Yes they will run trolleys on it in the temporary, but not for long if the extension is just approved!

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/12/04/3705897/we-may-not-say-it-but-we-mean.html

Wow! The comments below the article, as always, don't fail to disappoint. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I think the term "streetcar" is the biggest detriment to people's opinion of the project. Most people fail to actually look into the details of what it actually is, and make the assumption that it is a San Francisco like obsolete form of transportation rather than a progressive one. If that was ultimately what it was, I would probably agree with their opposition. I strongly second the need to create a video similar to those already posted to really change the perception and understanding of what the vision really is. 

[dubone]

Right, whereas streetcar/tram is a form of light rail, but done in a more frugal manner that does not require the massive expense of a dedicate right of way because it instead runs on streets that are not gridlocked and has the power to coordinate with the light timing to provide effective mass transit benefits.

 

This is not a trolley to the Kingdom of Make-believe, it is a viable 21st Century light rail design that takes cues from an era where dense urban development was the norm, since we are trying to return to that.   (oops, did our predecessors tear out all that dense urban infrastructure and buildings down when they were a bunch of blockbusting, urban-denuding, racist white-flighters proud of their space age freeways and gigantic rocket-shaped automobiles driven to idyllic quarter acre ranches far away from the scary bugaboos on nickel a gallon gas we were defrauding from backward bedouins in the arab desert that surely would never come to hate us?). 

[Guest]

Right, whereas streetcar/tram is a form of light rail, but done in a more frugal manner that does not require the massive expense of a dedicate right of way because it instead runs on streets that are not gridlocked and has the power to coordinate with the light timing to provide effective mass transit benefits.

 

This is not a trolley to the Kingdom of Make-believe, it is a viable 21st Century light rail design that takes cues from an era where dense urban development was the norm, since we are trying to return to that.   (oops, did our predecessors tear out all that dense urban infrastructure and buildings down when they were a bunch of blockbusting, urban-denuding, racist white-flighters proud of their space age freeways and gigantic rocket-shaped automobiles driven to idyllic quarter acre ranches far away from the scary bugaboos on nickel a gallon gas we were defrauding from backward bedouins in the arab desert that surely would never come to hate us?). 

Can you please add that last part to the comment section on the Observer?

[Guest]

Hey guys, 

Please take the time to sign this petition in support of the streetcar we need to get this thing viral ASAP.

http://www.causes.com/causes/805169-sustain-charlotte/actions/1712095

 

SHARE SHARE SHARE SHARE!!!!

Edited December 7, 2012 by Guest