Sprindale Minor League Sports Complex and Minor League Baseball Stadium

[KJW]

I think the Royals want the move, which is interesting considering the close relationship between Wichita and KC. It really is kind of the logical place for their AA team. I have to assume part of this has to do with David Glass, the former Wal-Mart CEO, owning the team.

I read something in the paper today that said they were expecting only 2000 voters. I'm not sure which side low turnout like that would end up helping.

Aporkalypse, indeed I'm wondering this myself about the voters.

Same goes for Wichita and KC (although the Royals are on the Missouri side, the residents of whom frequently have different loyalties than their friends on the west side of the KC state line).

Here's another thought, going back to "changing demographics and markets".

For the longest time, as previously mentioned here, Benton County was in the Joplin/Pittsburg DMA / TV market area. Benton is now part of the Fort Smith DMA, indeed, it's redefining that DMA.

Now, Joplin and its trading area, which in Missouri has ranged in the counties lined up all along the western Missouri state line from Nevada, MO to McDonald County (now part of the Bentonville/Fayetteville metro area) has in my lifetime always been in the Kansas City major trading area as defined by Rand McNally (.pdf format)...all counties in Missouri immediately west of that Joplin-centered line of counties are in the St. Louis major trading area. If the Royals do indeed put a farm club in NWA, I want to revisit this "major trading areas" issue, because the two newest Texas League teams (Springfield, MO and Springdale) will have taken their AA ball clubs from two cities who are heads of their own Major Trading area, #39 on the map El Paso (Springfield) and #46 on the map Wichita (Springdale). That's incredible, IMO.

What's that mean? In plain terms, the Joplin metro area (immediately north of McDonald County) has, I believe, pretty much been more Royals country than St. Louis Cardinal territory. So there may be a draw for Joplin (albeit a much smaller metro area than Wichita) fans to come visit a Royals farm club in Springdale, which will be closer to them than Wichita is by a significant distance. Conversely, Springfield, MO (very different city in many ways than Joplin) was the PERFECT place for the Cardinal AA Texas League franchise. This Springfield Cardinals/Springdale (Royals) matchup could soon make for a neat rivalry.

Also (and I don't know how big of a draw this will be) if Springdale lands a AA ball club, that will put said ball club one county away from the Fort Smith metro area. FSM hasn't been a big Royals bastion to my knowledge (although there used to be some desultory marketing of Joplin in that city) but Arkansas' second largest city will suddenly be within 60 miles of a AA club, significantly closer than Tulsa and definitely closer than Little Rock.

Again, what's that mean for the team? Don't know, and if Benton County gets the ball club by Springdale voter rejection these dynamics may not change much. NWA's the biggest metro and should rightly host the club (I noted how the Kansas City Star accurately said that the metro area is in the 400,000 population range) but Fort Smith and Joplin folks could be a significant audience as well.

[Aporkalypse]

Aporkalypse, indeed I'm wondering this myself about the voters.

Same goes for Wichita and KC (although the Royals are on the Missouri side, the residents of whom frequently have different loyalties than their friends on the west side of the KC state line).

Here's another thought, going back to "changing demographics and markets".

For the longest time, as previously mentioned here, Benton County was in the Joplin/Pittsburg DMA / TV market area. Benton is now part of the Fort Smith DMA, indeed, it's redefining that DMA.

Now, Joplin and its trading area, which in Missouri has ranged in the counties lined up all along the western Missouri state line from Nevada, MO to McDonald County (now part of the Bentonville/Fayetteville metro area) has in my lifetime always been in the Kansas City major trading area as defined by Rand McNally (.pdf format)...all counties in Missouri immediately west of that Joplin-centered line of counties are in the St. Louis major trading area. If the Royals do indeed put a farm club in NWA, I want to revisit this "major trading areas" issue, because the two newest Texas League teams (Springfield, MO and Springdale) will have taken their AA ball clubs from two cities who are heads of their own Major Trading area, #39 on the map El Paso (Springfield) and #46 on the map Wichita (Springdale). That's incredible, IMO.

What's that mean? In plain terms, the Joplin metro area (immediately north of McDonald County) has, I believe, pretty much been more Royals country than St. Louis Cardinal territory. So there may be a draw for Joplin (albeit a much smaller metro area than Wichita) fans to come visit a Royals farm club in Springdale, which will be closer to them than Wichita is by a significant distance. Conversely, Springfield, MO (very different city in many ways than Joplin) was the PERFECT place for the Cardinal AA Texas League franchise. This Springfield Cardinals/Springdale (Royals) matchup could soon make for a neat rivalry.

Also (and I don't know how big of a draw this will be) if Springdale lands a AA ball club, that will put said ball club one county away from the Fort Smith metro area. FSM hasn't been a big Royals bastion to my knowledge (although there used to be some desultory marketing of Joplin in that city) but Arkansas' second largest city will suddenly be within 50 miles of a AA club, significantly closer than Tulsa and definitely closer than Little Rock.

Again, what's that mean for the team? Don't know, and if Benton County gets the ball club by Springdale voter rejection these dynamics may not change much. NWA's the biggest metro and should rightly host the club (I noted how the Kansas City Star accurately said that the metro area is in the 400,000 population range) but Fort Smith and Joplin folks could be a significant audience as well.

I don't think Ft Smith has the demographics to support minor league baseball at the AA level. Perhaps they might at A but as we know there's no league for Arkansas teams to play in.

I don't think affiliation with one team versus another will have a profound impact on attendance in NWA. I think the more important thing is that the stadium be nicely designed. A winning team is nice as well and that's always been a problem for St Louis-affiliated clubs as they tend to trade all of their best minor league prospects away.

[KJW]

I don't think Ft Smith has the demographics to support minor league baseball at the AA level. Perhaps they might at A but as we know there's no league for Arkansas teams to play in.

I don't think affiliation with one team versus another will have a profound impact on attendance in NWA. I think the more important thing is that the stadium be nicely designed. A winning team is nice as well and that's always been a problem for St Louis-affiliated clubs as they tend to trade all of their best minor league prospects away.

I'm in agreement about Fort Smith...again, it's still amazing though not surpising just how much NWA (metro population approximately 420,000) is coming to dominate the metro region headed by Arkansas' second largest city (approximate metro population 260,000). But if there's any kind of following that could be built in FSM, in which we share our media market with and which TV stations would be foolish to break up, we're looking at a 680,000 strong dual metro area that, if the stadium is nice and management is keen, could provide a lot of opportunities.

As for affiliation, it may not, but I guarantee you Springfieldians (who live in the second largest city in the St. Louis major trading area) would probably choose a Cardinal minor league franchise over any other. And Joplin (the third largest metro area in the Kansas City Major trading area, BTW, trailing #2 Topeka, KS only by about 12,000 residents) baseball fans may rejoice that their Royals AA club is now 78 miles away in an easy 1 hour plus drive over (nearly all) Interstate highway road vs. 288 miles and 4 plus hours away (over lots of 2 lane remote road) in Wichita.

[Aporkalypse]

I'm in agreement about Fort Smith...again, it's still amazing though not surpising just how much NWA (metro population approximately 420,000) is coming to dominate the metro region headed by Arkansas' second largest city (approximate metro population 260,000). But if there's any kind of following that could be built in FSM, in which we share our media market with and which TV stations would be foolish to break up, we're looking at a 680,000 strong dual metro area that, if the stadium is nice and management is keen, could provide a lot of opportunities.

As for affiliation, it may not, but I guarantee you Springfieldians (who live in the second largest city in the St. Louis major trading area) would probably choose a Cardinal minor league franchise over any other. And Joplin (the third largest metro area in the Kansas City Major trading area, BTW, trailing #2 Topeka, KS only by about 12,000 residents) baseball fans may rejoice that their Royals AA club is now 78 miles away in an easy 1 hour plus drive over (nearly all) Interstate highway road vs. 288 miles and 4 plus hours away (over lots of 2 lane remote road) in Wichita.

I have no doubt there will be "Ft Smith night" and that sort of thing to try to bring that market into the loop. I expect a lot of people travel from Pine Bluff and Hot Springs to LR to see minor league baseball on occasion as well and really will once the new stadium is built. You'd expect the same in NWA. Of course, how many NW Arkansans bother driving to Tulsa right now? Not many, but I expect the stadium is part of that.

I've always been a Cards fan and I used to enjoy the glory days when Zeile, Lankford, Gilkey, etc came up through LR. At that time AA Little Rock was a much stronger franchise than AAA Louisville and actually led AA in attendance and only a couple of AAA teams were better. Eventually, though, the Cards and Jocketty just abandoned their minor league system and every good player they had went to Memphis. They really put bad products on the field year and year. Springfield is still in the honeymoon period and I doubt they'll ever opt for anyone but the Cards but a decade of finishing below .500 would have the same effect on them. It really killed LR's minor league baseball crowd. Of course the flip side is nobody really gets excited about an affiliation with the Angels. The reason Valentine jettisoned the Cards (who ended up in El Paso until the Springfield franchise was created), though, was because they weren't really interested in a good minor league system.

Now I'd like to see the Frisco team move up to AAA and the Travs sneak in as the Rangers' AA affiliate. I think that would be good for team and LR has always identified with some degree with Dallas.

[CellarDoor135]

I'm just going to wait and see what happens. I wouldn't expect to see any stadium in Pinnacle though. Usually the last thing an upscale shopping area would want is a stadium, or a church. So hell who knows.

I just think that Springdale is the perfect location for this. Sometimes due to the size of the Metro, Benton County residents will just have to realize that they're not large enough to have everything, they just may have to drive a little.

Did anyone notice that the people that designed the new stadium were the same ones that designed Divinity(HOK). Don't know if that was mentioned. You should really go and check out this firms webpage. They are doing some amazing projects. I really liked the Dubai projects.

[mcheiss]

I have no doubt there will be "Ft Smith night" and that sort of thing to try to bring that market into the loop. I expect a lot of people travel from Pine Bluff and Hot Springs to LR to see minor league baseball on occasion as well and really will once the new stadium is built. You'd expect the same in NWA. Of course, how many NW Arkansans bother driving to Tulsa right now? Not many, but I expect the stadium is part of that.

Suprisingly, me.

I used to travel to Tulsa to watch the Drillers regularly. I haven't had time to recently, but I always enjoy going there.

[mcheiss]

I'm just going to wait and see what happens. I wouldn't expect to see any stadium in Pinnacle though. Usually the last thing an upscale shopping area would want is a stadium, or a church. So hell who knows.

Have you seen the Church at Pinnacle Hills. It's on the North Side of the Pinnacle Development. The Church is suppose to be 4 Floors tall with plenty of crosses that are 100 Feet Tall. It's kind of odd to be in the Upscale Shopping District, but it's extremly popular with it being on of larget churches in Rogers.

The Stadium will probably pass in Springdale today, but if the Stadium doesn't pass, then I assume Rogers will get it. JQH could pick up his plans and talk to Pinnacle about the possible benefits of a AA Baseball Stadium. It could be one last market that the Pinnacle Group hasn't taped into.

[KJW]

Travelerocity blog: "Wichita could be notified tomorrow".

Also;

Today's Wichita paper says a Springdale city council member is saying that the Wranglers' owners did indeed approach his city's leadership.

It all comes down to the vote today...

[CellarDoor135]

Have you seen the Church at Pinnacle Hills. It's on the North Side of the Pinnacle Development. The Church is suppose to be 4 Floors tall with plenty of crosses that are 100 Feet Tall. It's kind of odd to be in the Upscale Shopping District, but it's extremly popular with it being on of larget churches in Rogers.

Yes I have seen this. It is to much, no worst then the giant Catholic churches though. I think this church is going to be imposing and just like how Springdale thinks the stadium will change it's image, so has the church at Pinnacle hills for Rogers. That is the first thing people are going to see when the come into Pinnacle Hills.

And if JQH picks this stadium up, I hope he stays away from the cheap green roofs. That convention center was looking nice.

[mcheiss]

Yes I have seen this. It is to much, no worst then the giant Catholic churches though. I think this church is going to be imposing and just like how Springdale thinks the stadium will change it's image, so has the church at Pinnacle hills for Rogers. That is the first thing people are going to see when the come into Pinnacle Hills.

And if JQH picks this stadium up, I hope he stays away from the cheap green roofs. That convention center was looking nice.

Yeah, but what can you do. I don't much care for the Church anyway because it's imposing on valuable real estate.

[masons_dad1]

I'm just going to wait and see what happens. I wouldn't expect to see any stadium in Pinnacle though. Usually the last thing an upscale shopping area would want is a stadium, or a church. So hell who knows.

I just think that Springdale is the perfect location for this. Sometimes due to the size of the Metro, Benton County residents will just have to realize that they're not large enough to have everything, they just may have to drive a little.

Did anyone notice that the people that designed the new stadium were the same ones that designed Divinity(HOK). Don't know if that was mentioned. You should really go and check out this firms webpage. They are doing some amazing projects. I really liked the Dubai projects.

First of all Pinnacle Hills is more than just a shopping area. Think of it as a city built from scratch that has/will have the regions largest shopping center, the largest hotel, the largest church, the most expensive homes, the most prestigious golf course, a brand new hospital and will probably have the regions new baseball stadium. The Pinnacle Hills Promenade is within Pinnacle Hills, it isn't Pinnacle Hills.

Springdale IS the ideal location for the baseball stadium due to it's central location between the two counties, even though Benton County is the larger and wealthier county that could easily support a baseball stadium on it's own. So, in reality Benton County residents really could have everything.

[Mith242]

I wonder if JQH passed the first time why anyone would think he would opt to do it. He dropped the plan well before the Springdale saga began, telling me he probably figured out it wouldn't be profitable. I see Bentonville and Rogers working together better, though, and bringing in better private sponsorship. I could see Benton Co passing a half cent countwide tax for one year or two and I bet this would cover it depending on the private component and naming rights.

I still think Lowell is the best location for the arena and stadium, though.

Yeah I had really wondered if he'd still be thinking about it even if it doesn't pass in Springdale. I'm not so sure he's that serious about it. That article mentioned that he had thought about it.

I think the Royals want the move, which is interesting considering the close relationship between Wichita and KC. It really is kind of the logical place for their AA team. I have to assume part of this has to do with David Glass, the former Wal-Mart CEO, owning the team.

I read something in the paper today that said they were expecting only 2000 voters. I'm not sure which side low turnout like that would end up helping.

I wonder if the KC area is hoping to try to develop some sort of relationship to NWA. Hoping that just maybe since this is such a fast growing area that perhaps more people might visit KC to see a Major League game.

[Mith242]

Now I'd like to see the Frisco team move up to AAA and the Travs sneak in as the Rangers' AA affiliate. I think that would be good for team and LR has always identified with some degree with Dallas.

Yeah I agree with you there. Granted it's been a long time since I lived down in that part of the state but I wasn't too thrilled to see the Travelers connected to the Angels. A connection to the Rangers would be more interesting.

[Mith242]

Springdale IS the ideal location for the baseball stadium due to it's central location between the two counties, even though Benton County is the larger and wealthier county that could easily support a baseball stadium on it's own. So, in reality Benton County residents really could have everything.

I'm not so sure Benton County would be able to support a team all on it's own. I think it would still need help from Washington County. For that matter I think any semi-pro team in either county still needs help of the whole metro to be very successful.

[mcheiss]

I'm not so sure Benton County would be able to support a team all on it's own. I think it would still need help from Washington County. For that matter I think any semi-pro team in either county still needs help of the whole metro to be very successful.

Agreed.

[Mith242]

Now that I've finally caught up on all the posts here. Does anyone have any idea when election results will be announced? Could it possibly be as early at the 10PM news tonight? Or will I have to wait till morning?

[mcheiss]

Polls close around 7:30, so we should watch the 10:00 news.

[Mith242]

Polls close around 7:30, so we should watch the 10:00 news.

I guess it also depends on how close the voting is. KNWA is reporting good turnout. They said they had been asking people after they vote and that most, even ones who voted against it feel that it will pass. So maybe chances are a little better than what it seemed. But we'll just have to wait and see how the vote goes.

[Aporkalypse]

I'm not so sure Benton County would be able to support a team all on it's own. I think it would still need help from Washington County. For that matter I think any semi-pro team in either county still needs help of the whole metro to be very successful.

I don't think anyone would argue that.

[masons_dad1]

I'm not so sure Benton County would be able to support a team all on it's own. I think it would still need help from Washington County. For that matter I think any semi-pro team in either county still needs help of the whole metro to be very successful.

All it would take is 8,000 people filling up the stadium during home games. I think Benton County could manage that. If Benton County didn't think it could support minor league sports on it's own they wouldn't be building the Sports and Entertainment Arena deep inside Benton County.

[Mith242]

All it would take is 8,000 people filling up the stadium during home games. I think Benton County could manage that. If Benton County didn't think it could support minor league sports on it's own they wouldn't be building the Sports and Entertainment Arena deep inside Benton County.

Yeah but it's not like it's that far away from Washington County and I'm sure they will target people in washington County to go. As far as 8,000 people apparently the people of Wichita don't even think we can average 2,000 a game for baseball. Be wary of any Kansas news forums or you might get drawn into some ugly comments being directed to us. But oh well, I guess you have to assume that there are going to be people pissed off that we could be taking 'their' team away from them.

[Mith242]

I don't think I remember seeing this mentioned over here yet. But I read something about the possibility of moving the Wranglers immediately if the stadium is voted in and them playing at the U of A until the new stadium is ready. Of course that is also assuming that Wichita doesn't do something to force the team to stay there.

[Aporkalypse]

Yeah but it's not like it's that far away from Washington County and I'm sure they will target people in washington County to go. As far as 8,000 people apparently the people of Wichita don't even think we can average 2,000 a game for baseball. Be wary of any Kansas news forums or you might get drawn into some ugly comments being directed to us. But oh well, I guess you have to assume that there are going to be people pissed off that we could be taking 'their' team away from them.

There were some nasty comments to the articles on the Wichita Eagle's website -a lot of anti-Hispanic stuff. Even with Washington Co, I think 4000 a game is a more realistic long-term goal though the first season or two I expect dramatically better numbers.

I don't think I remember seeing this mentioned over here yet. But I read something about the possibility of moving the Wranglers immediately if the stadium is voted in and them playing at the U of A until the new stadium is ready. Of course that is also assuming that Wichita doesn't do something to force the team to stay there.

I posted yesterday that Rick Shaeffer said on Drive Time that the team could move immediately, I got that from the Travelerocity blog. That would have to mean the UA gave them consent to use Baum, though Dave Van Horn and Broyles have answered "no comment" in response to questions about a minor league team. I took that as a lack of support for the team. It will probably hurt UA attendance slightly, and vice versa.

[razorbackfan]

I know this should go under the topic, however, I put a new topic so everyone could see it. But the stadium passed the vote tonight with 2,410 for and 2,393.

http://nwaonline.net/articles/2006/07/11/news/00stadium.txt

[Aporkalypse]

I know this should go under the topic, however, I put a new topic so everyone could see it. But the stadium passed the vote tonight with 2,410 for and 2,393.

http://nwaonline.net/articles/2006/07/11/news/00stadium.txt

Christ, that's close. Glad it went through.