Sprindale Minor League Sports Complex and Minor League Baseball Stadium

[masons_dad1]

I'm wondering if some other people will get what they want here, as well.

One of these articles had someone quoted saying words to the effect of "If (Springdale) doesn't build this ballpark someone else (in NWA) will."

And "someone else" could end up, if demand is as intense as has been suggested in these articles, building the stadium in a county we all know which at present is quite "dry".

Building the baseball stadium really isn't the issue as much as getting a AA team to move here. If the owners get what they want from Wichita, if this is really just a ploy to get a new stadium, then where is NWA going to get a minor league team from?

[Mith242]

Even if we don't get a Texas League team up here there are still other possibilities. But I think a Texas Lague team is what's going to be most attractive to fans here. I'm not sure what league they're in but apparently the Albuquerque Isotopes play quite a few of the Texas League teams on a somewhat regular basis. Traveling would suck if they had to find a further league. But it still might be a better option than a really small league type team.

[Aporkalypse]

Even if we don't get a Texas League team up here there are still other possibilities. But I think a Texas Lague team is what's going to be most attractive to fans here. I'm not sure what league they're in but apparently the Albuquerque Isotopes play quite a few of the Texas League teams on a somewhat regular basis. Traveling would suck if they had to find a further league. But it still might be a better option than a really small league type team.

They don't really play Texas League teams, Albuquerque is actually a AAA ballclub. I think the options are Texas League or non-MLB affiliated. However, even if Wichita doesn't move it's not as if that's the only shot. If San Antonio, El Paso, or LR moved up to AAA at some point it would create another AA slot in the TL. Corpus Christi got a TL team when Round Rock (Austin) moved up to AAA a couple of years ago. Springfield had to wait a few years before they found a team they could get to move.

[Aporkalypse]

Reading some of the articles at the Wichita Eagle it's interesting to see their opinions. I think they are taking this seriously as a quite real threat. Attendance has been very poor for a long time there and there are a lot of reasons for this: it's a very old ballpark, for one. Another reason is that Wichita State baseball is considered #1 in that town and minor league baseball #2. Apparently the city has the right to buy the team if it breaks its lease to leave prior to 2009 and this is thought to cost around $10 million to do. The city states it's not in the business of buying teams but there are others banding together to try to buy it. The team's owners, the Riches, actually are in Buffalo and originally stole the AAA Wichita team and moved it to Buffalo but replaced it with a AA team in the late 1980s. The current owner is the son of the original Rich. Apparently they haven't really show any interest in running the team in several years and never leave Buffalo.

Somehow after reading all of that I had the sense that there's too much apathy in Wichita to keep the team. The only way I could see the team not moving is if a wealthy citizen in Wichita bought the team in lieu of the city doing so. Still, it sounds like Wichita needs to spend a lot of money on the stadium.

[KJW]

Reading some of the articles at the Wichita Eagle it's interesting to see their opinions. I think they are taking this seriously as a quite real threat. Attendance has been very poor for a long time there and there are a lot of reasons for this: it's a very old ballpark, for one. Another reason is that Wichita State baseball is considered #1 in that town and minor league baseball #2. Apparently the city has the right to buy the team if it breaks its lease to leave prior to 2009 and this is thought to cost around $10 million to do. The city states it's not in the business of buying teams but there are others banding together to try to buy it. The team's owners, the Riches, actually are in Buffalo and originally stole the AAA Wichita team and moved it to Buffalo but replaced it with a AA team in the late 1980s. The current owner is the son of the original Rich. Apparently they haven't really show any interest in running the team in several years and never leave Buffalo.

Somehow after reading all of that I had the sense that there's too much apathy in Wichita to keep the team. The only way I could see the team not moving is if a wealthy citizen in Wichita bought the team in lieu of the city doing so. Still, it sounds like Wichita needs to spend a lot of money on the stadium.

Very interesting quotes here:

Jim Paul knows what it's like to watch his city's minor-league baseball team leave. It was painful to see the El Paso Diablos, a Texas League team he owned from 1975 to 1998, sold and moved to Springfield, Mo., two years ago.

"El Paso is dying without (Double-A baseball)," Paul said.

He's adamant that Wichita must do what it can to keep the Wranglers, who have been linked to a new location in Springdale, Ark.

"From 25 years of experience, the worst thing the city of Wichita and its politicians could do is allow the Wranglers to leave," said Paul, who bought the Diablos for $1,000 in 1975. "You lose the quality of life ingredient that is so important to the makeup of the community.

"Would you let the university leave? No. Would you let the university do away with its basketball and baseball program? No."

A Springdale official has said that the Wranglers' owners, Bob and Mindy Rich, have expressed interest in moving the team to Springdale if a one-cent sales tax extension is approved July 11 to build a $33 million baseball stadium. The Riches haven't commented.

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/sports/ba...rs/14890535.htm

Mith,

If you're reading this...is there ANY TYPE of promotion that's being done for this July 11th vote? I've seen no TV commercials, etc.

[Aporkalypse]

If Wichita was smart they would protect themselves as the Travelers did. Buy the team for $10 million and then sell shares for $100 a piece or something to residents and use that to protect the franchise. That alse would rid the city of ownership conflicts. Apparently the Little Rock franchise could never be moved because of this unless the facilities were so poor MLB wouldn't allow teams to continue to play there, which is part of why the new stadium is being built. The Green Bay Packers have a similar ownership arrangment, I think it is really logical to protect the franchise long-term.

BTW, has anyone seen a poll on this lately, I havent' heard a peep?

[Mith242]

Very interesting quotes here:

Mith,

If you're reading this...is there ANY TYPE of promotion that's being done for this July 11th vote? I've seen no TV commercials, etc.

Aside from it being mentioned in the paper no not really. I've never seen any commecials or ads or anything. To be honest I almost get the impression they think there's no organized opposition and that they won't have too many problems get this passed. I hope they aren't setting they aren't getting too overconfident.

[Mith242]

If Wichita was smart they would protect themselves as the Travelers did. Buy the team for $10 million and then sell shares for $100 a piece or something to residents and use that to protect the franchise. That alse would rid the city of ownership conflicts. Apparently the Little Rock franchise could never be moved because of this unless the facilities were so poor MLB wouldn't allow teams to continue to play there, which is part of why the new stadium is being built. The Green Bay Packers have a similar ownership arrangment, I think it is really logical to protect the franchise long-term.

BTW, has anyone seen a poll on this lately, I havent' heard a peep?

I haven't seen any estimates or predictions either. As I mentioned I get the impression the ones for the stadium and sales tax don't see any organized opposition and seem rather confident it will be passed. But after seeing editorials and talking to some Springdale citizens I'm not so confident it will be easily passed.

[mcheiss]

Well, the majority of people that vote in the U.S. are senior citizens, and what do they not want to see more of in this area?

TAXES

Plus, this stadium really wouldn't help the senior citizens at all, seeing as how it appeals to only the younger generation. I'm not too confidant this will pass, but you never no what's going to happen.

[Aporkalypse]

I'm with Mith and mcheiss about lacking confidence in it passing. Springdale is a very conservative GOP anti-tax town aside from the nonvoting Hispanic minority. Unless there was a groundswell of support there, which it doesn't seem like there is, you're going to have a lot of built-in opposition. There's an element behind it that wants the recognition of having a team in Springdale but probably just as many that don't want to foot the bill for the rest of NWA to enjoy the team. I bet there is also a sizable contingent that would support the tax but only if they were guaranteed to have a team occupy the stadium. I think the difference literally could just be Rev Floyd's rescinded endorsement but we'll see. If that only influences 5% of voters that may be enough to cost them the election.

I still wonder about Floyd. Has he never attended a professional baseball game? I've never heard of a minor or major league game without beer. It just doesn't happen. Most teams are barely making money. Take that element away and you're guaranteed to lose money.

The other thing I worry about is the tax revenue. NLR has a population of 61,000 roughly equivalent to Springdale but has considerably more retail with the McCain Mall corridor which serves several counties as well as northern Pulaski. NLR has long relied on heavy sales tax revenue per capita to fund its government and a sales tax there really also spreads the cost amongst Sherwood, Jacksonville, Lonoke County, White County, and to some degree Faulkner County as well. Still, a 2 year 1% tax in NLR was estimated to generate $30 million in revenue, I just don't see how Springdale is going to generate nearly as much revenue with the same tax and they also have to spend $10 million for the site which NLR didn't have to do. I have to wonder about these numbers.

[KJW]

Well, the majority of people that vote in the U.S. are senior citizens, and what do they not want to see more of in this area?

TAXES

Plus, this stadium really wouldn't help the senior citizens at all, seeing as how it appeals to only the younger generation. I'm not too confidant this will pass, but you never no what's going to happen.

Hmmm...if the stadium were in Bella Vista I'd be thinking that's more of an concern, though I believe you're right.

Yet, if this doesn't pass I still think this (and a AA team of some sort) are falling RIGHT INTO Bentonville/Rogers' collective hands, especially with the "beer" issue, especially if we get a private company in the mix like the Bentonville Arena's group...

I think this is going to be fun to watch.

[Aporkalypse]

Hmmm...if the stadium were in Bella Vista I'd be thinking that's more of an concern, though I believe you're right.

Yet, if this doesn't pass I still think this (and a AA team of some sort) are falling RIGHT INTO Bentonville/Rogers' collective hands, especially with the "beer" issue, especially if we get a private company in the mix like the Bentonville Arena's group...

I think this is going to be fun to watch.

There's no money in minor league baseball, at least not much. Somebody's still going to have to build the stadium, a $40 million investment that won't pay off for the owners or a private venture. A county-wide tax in Benton Co could generate the revenue much easier and not put the burden on a single community.

[mcheiss]

Well, if all doesn't work out for Springdale, then the owners of the Arkansas Sports & Entertainment Complex might decide to build a stadium next to their arena.

[Aporkalypse]

Well, if all doesn't work out for Springdale, then the owners of the Arkansas Sports & Entertainment Complex might decide to build a stadium next to their arena.

I don't see how you could make money on it. It's barely profitable to own a team even when the city builds the stadium for you. I remember reading where the Travs were projected to make $3.5 mil a year and net $1.5 mil a year after expenses. The first few years all of this is going to pay the difference between the stadium cost and the tax collected, subsequently it will largely be maintenance costs for the stadium. That doesn't seem profitable enough to pay for a $40 million stadium and make any money on the deal. I think one way or another taxpayers will have to foot a new stadium if it's built.

[mcheiss]

I don't see how you could make money on it. It's barely profitable to own a team even when the city builds the stadium for you.

The Original plan for the Stadium was suppose to be in Bentonville, about 3 or so years ago it was announced. Then, the owners realized that liquor sales might have trouble in the area, so they decided to move the project to Springdale with the Entertainment Complex. The Entertainment Complex doesn't look hopeful in Springdale, seeing as how one in Bentonville is going to be built.

[Aporkalypse]

The Original plan for the Stadium was suppose to be in Bentonville, about 3 or so years ago it was announced. Then, the owners realized that liquor sales might have trouble in the area, so they decided to move the project to Springdale with the Entertainment Complex. The Entertainment Complex doesn't look hopeful in Springdale, seeing as how one in Bentonville is going to be built.

I meant I don't think you could privately fund a minor league stadium and make a profit for the reasons I put in the post above. I think you responded before I had finished editing it. An arena on the other hand can be very profitable if you have concerts and other events with regularity.

[mcheiss]

Well, if Springdale's tax doesn't get approved, what do you see hapening?

[Mith242]

Well, if all doesn't work out for Springdale, then the owners of the Arkansas Sports & Entertainment Complex might decide to build a stadium next to their arena.

You know I've wondered if they might if Springdale doesn't go for this. I've also been wondering if you'll end up seeing almost all the semi-pro teams in Benton County with Washington County relying on the university for sports.

I meant I don't think you could privately fund a minor league stadium and make a profit for the reasons I put in the post above. I think you responded before I had finished editing it. An arena on the other hand can be very profitable if you have concerts and other events with regularity.

I wonder if you could set something up like the AMP. Have a temporary setup for outdoor music events and such when there isn't any baseball. I don't know about the minor leagues teams. Do they play an outrageous amounts of games like the Major League?

[Aporkalypse]

Well, if Springdale's tax doesn't get approved, what do you see hapening?

Well if Benton Co really can get around the issue of alcohol sales as seems to be the case in the arena I think the issue will be revisited again in a couple of years up there. Again, I think a county-wide tax would be more accepted and have far less individual impact.

You know I've wondered if they might if Springdale doesn't go for this. I've also been wondering if you'll end up seeing almost all the semi-pro teams in Benton County with Washington County relying on the university for sports.

That's what I was also thinking.

[Mith242]

Well if Benton Co really can get around the issue of alcohol sales as seems to be the case in the arena I think the issue will be revisited again in a couple of years up there. Again, I think a county-wide tax would be more accepted and have far less individual impact.

Yeah I can see Benton County being able to pull together better to try to ahcieve something like this than Washington County. It does sound like they are planning on getting around the alcohol on the sports complex. Don't see why a baseball stadium couldn't be done as well.

[KJW]

Yeah I can see Benton County being able to pull together better to try to ahcieve something like this than Washington County. It does sound like they are planning on getting around the alcohol on the sports complex. Don't see why a baseball stadium couldn't be done as well.

This gets us back to "if a minor league team is so unprofitable (or "non-profitable") why compete for one"?

And when I look at the competitors, I think this is lining up to be a win-win situation for NWA no matter which city gets the non-profitable club...

[Mith242]

This gets us back to "if a minor league team is so unprofitable (or "non-profitable") why compete for one"?

And when I look at the competitors, I think this is lining up to be a win-win situation for NWA no matter which city gets the non-profitable club...

Yeah I agree, overall it doesn't really matter a huge amount which city gets these. It does benefit the whole area.

[Aporkalypse]

This one's for Reverend Floyd.

[Mith242]

Interestings pics.

[mcheiss]

Well if Benton Co really can get around the issue of alcohol sales as seems to be the case in the arena I think the issue will be revisited again in a couple of years up there. Again, I think a county-wide tax would be more accepted and have far less individual impact.

That's what I was also thinking.

Couldn't the stadium just get a liquor liscene for a private club from the state?