Orchard Park Development

[DwntwnGeo]

It's now a prime development location. If Cabela's bails, don't be surprised if someone like Bass Pro shops or Great Wolf Lodge jump in their place to capitalize on this newly created opportunity.

[GRDadof3]

If this site is so great and ripe for developement by big businesses, why haven't any of them (Ikea, Whole Foods, REI, Bass Pro Shops, Great Wolf Lodge etc) come forward and say they will build without any incentives and end this debate?

Could it be possible that "now" isn't the best time to develope this land if we expect to see something this large move there? I would hate to see this prime spot turn into yet another M6 & Kalamazoo.

[DwntwnGeo]

Do we know they haven't? This property was JUST rezoned (the ink may still be wet).

[GRDadof3]

Cabela's sues state of Texas to keep tax incentive information private

Just thought this was interesting. Obviously a company should be able to keep its financial data private, but shouldn't all public money (tax incentives) be open for accountability to the taxpayers? Cabela's doesn't think so. I wonder why?

In other Texas - Cabela's news:

State demands refund from Cabela's

Other Cabela's incentives (infrastructure and TIF):

East Hartford, CT - $32 Million

Hammond, IN - $38 Million

Wheeling, WV (store and dc) - $127 Million

Gonzalez, LA - $49.8 Million

Reno, NV $25 Million

Lincoln, NE - $27.8 Million

Cabela's hunting for incentives in North Charleston - UrbanPlanet thread

Cabela's has also asked for exemptions from many State's sales tax for catalog and online orders, even though their competition must collect sales tax for these orders. I would imagine when all is said and done, we'll find out that the Walker store $15 Million incentive is not the final straw.

This is all so surreal when you look at the big picture.

Don't get me wrong, I think a Cabela's would be good for tourism in the area. I'm just doing some due diligence.

[AlexPKeaton]

Obviously a company should be able to keep its financial data private

[Veloise]

Good article about the incentive request in yesterday's Press.

"Here you have the third-largest city in West Virginia, and we couldn't buy a pair of underwear in our city" before Cabela's was built, McKenzie said [about Wheeling WV].

Another good quote later, about IKEA in Canton. "It would have been a very short conversation."

[egrguy]

That was a good article Veloise. Also if I read it right, it sounded like Maine held their ground and Cabela's moved in sans the tax credits. If so, I feel no heed for Walker/Michigan to do budge for Cabela's demands.

[Mark Miller]

I did not want to wade through the 18 pages of this thread, but I had come across some numbers regarding Cabelas that should be interesting to some on UP.

The store in Walker is expected to generate more than 3.5 million visitors...yearly.

Traffic expected at a Cabela's Grand Opening range from 250,000 to 450,000 visitors over a ten day period.

This store is expected to generate over $52 million dollars in first year showroom sales.

Dundee store generates 6 million visitors annually

Kansas City, KS = 4 million annually

Hamburg, PA = 7 million annually (MORE VISITORS THAN GETTYSBURG and THE LIBERTY BELL...COMBINED) - Truly sad state of American affairs!!!!

Lehi, UT = 5 million annually

Walker location will generate more than 185 "full time equivalent positions"

These employees will earn more than $5.6 million in payroll and benefits.

Over 30% of employees will be full-time and management-level positions.

Sure sounds like a super special deal for everyone involved. Reminds me of the "Big Box Mart" spot from Jib-Jab.

[localtalent]

This place is going to go through the roof when the details of the deal come out...

There's a hint of it in some of the articles getting linked earlier in this thread.

Get ready for the UP uprising.

[GRDadof3]

This place is going to go through the roof when the details of the deal come out...

There's a hint of it in some of the articles getting linked earlier in this thread.

Get ready for the UP uprising.

[civitas]

This place is going to go through the roof when the details of the deal come out...

There's a hint of it in some of the articles getting linked earlier in this thread.

Get ready for the UP uprising.

[gvsusean]

local talent is sneaky as hell.. he kinda makes me mad

[snoogit]

This place is going to go through the roof when the details of the deal come out...

There's a hint of it in some of the articles getting linked earlier in this thread.

Get ready for the UP uprising.

[GaryP]

This place is going to go through the roof when the details of the deal come out...

There's a hint of it in some of the articles getting linked earlier in this thread.

Get ready for the UP uprising.

[localtalent]

I remember when you said you were going to give us all the details of Faust's deal when it fell apart. Is that offer still on the table?

[DwntwnGeo]

Sure, if anyone even cares by then.

[localtalent]

I'm guessing Walker bent over and shelled out the incentives.

[suydam]

Not quite....but I'm sure it will result in a UP protest of big box retailers.

[ccbarnes]

Anyone else get the feeling that localtalent doesn't know what he's talking about?

My guess is that it's a 12-year old kid screwing with all of you.

[Mark Miller]

Besides the Cabelas, weighing in at 130,000+ square feet...

there is also a power center that is nearing 250,000 square feet. It is over 1,000 feet long.

That is nearly 380,000 square feet of retail and does NOT include any of the out parcels or restaurants. It also does NOT include the lifestyle center, which is on the other side of the proposed arterial.

This much retail, no matter what it is, will have a huge impact on the overall retail sector in this region.

The shear size of these buildings will not allow them to be humanized. The setting will be surreal, with acres of asphalt and out of scale landscrapers.

Whatever deals were arrived at to lure Cabelas, and you can be sure that there were, stink of subsidy. All the free-market reactionaries out there who think that big boxes are just a logical manifestation of our free market system, should really look at this. It is possible that Cabela's did not pay for the land or the building that they will use. All they have to do is stock the shelves with hand-crafted Chinese (sweat shop produced) merchandise and pay the employes $12.50 an hour, for 20 hours a week.

What does this do to the businesses that had to pay for their building and land, like Bill and Pauls? Hopefully they can keep their upscale niche and not be sucked down into the world of the "World's Foremost Outfitter".

This also puts a significant crimp into getting something viable in the real downtown of the region. Even 25% of this much retail would invigorate downtown GR like no one could believe. But instead we are going to build it out in an apple orchard in BFE.

There is not a single thing about this that is good.

[GRDadof3]

Besides the Cabelas, weighing in at 130,000+ square feet...

there is also a power center that is nearing 250,000 square feet. It is over 1,000 feet long.

That is nearly 380,000 square feet of retail and does NOT include any of the out parcels or restaurants. It also does NOT include the lifestyle center, which is on the other side of the proposed arterial.

This much retail, no matter what it is, will have a huge impact on the overall retail sector in this region.

The shear size of these buildings will not allow them to be humanized. The setting will be surreal, with acres of asphalt and out of scale landscrapers.

Whatever deals were arrived at to lure Cabelas, and you can be sure that there were, stink of subsidy. All the free-market reactionaries out there who think that big boxes are just a logical manifestation of our free market system, should really look at this. It is possible that Cabela's did not pay for the land or the building that they will use. All they have to do is stock the shelves with hand-crafted Chinese (sweat shop produced) merchandise and pay the employes $12.50 an hour, for 20 hours a week.

What does this do to the businesses that had to pay for their building and land, like Bill and Pauls? Hopefully they can keep their upscale niche and not be sucked down into the world of the "World's Foremost Outfitter".

This also puts a significant crimp into getting something viable in the real downtown of the region. Even 25% of this much retail would invigorate downtown GR like no one could believe. But instead we are going to build it out in an apple orchard in BFE.

There is not a single thing about this that is good.

[Mark Miller]

Where is the 1000 ft long "power center" going? Secondly, what big boxes are not already represented on Alpine?

Hey, at least all these retail sales dollars can go to fund a transit sales tax. Doh! They're probably going to be exempt from sales tax!

[DwntwnGeo]

This is an old plan.

[Mark Miller]

I do not have a new plan, but I can tell you that the new plan has only a few similarities to the one posted here. The lifestyle center looks like it is approximately in the same spot and in the same configuration. The Cabela's is in a different spot, closer to the lower right corner where that pond is. Highway exposure (element number one of all good retail don't ya know) must be the driver for this.

The power center (or more aptly a power center on steroids) is to the left of the Cabelas as close as it can be without infringing on the 36 acres of parking and statue of bears wrestling.

The arterial is roughly in the same spot.

This posted plan looks like some half-assed co-opted new urbanist plan. Does anyone really think all those trees are going to make a bit of difference to the overall environmental and psychological degradation that this place creates? Or that they will actually put all those trees in?

Believe me, this plan looks far better than what I have seen recently. Maybe once they add some color and trees it will come off better. It will still be like hell on earth, but at least the plan will look pretty.

[GRDadof3]

I do not have a new plan, but I can tell you that the new plan has only a few similarities to the one posted here. The lifestyle center looks like it is approximately in the same spot and in the same configuration. The Cabela's is in a different spot, closer to the lower right corner where that pond is. Highway exposure (element number one of all good retail don't ya know) must be the driver for this.

The power center (or more aptly a power center on steroids) is to the left of the Cabelas as close as it can be without infringing on the 36 acres of parking and statue of bears wrestling.

The arterial is roughly in the same spot.

This posted plan looks like some half-assed co-opted new urbanist plan. Does anyone really think all those trees are going to make a bit of difference to the overall environmental and psychological degradation that this place creates? Or that they will actually put all those trees in?

Believe me, this plan looks far better than what I have seen recently. Maybe once they add some color and trees it will come off better. It will still be like hell on earth, but at least the plan will look pretty.