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Orchard Park Development

OneSweetWorld

By OneSweetWorld
in Grand Rapids

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grmetro Unincorporated Area

grmetro

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My guess is the developer has already "incentivized" the project. The $15 million is what is needed to get the rest of the way. The money would likely go to Walker infrastructure improvents (sewers, water lines, etc.) and the ever important water rentention. I'm not sure there is enough space on the current site for Cabela's to retain water for their huge parking lot. (Rockford Meijer is a good example of how much space you need to retain water for large parking lots) $15 million is nothing for the eventual upside of this project. Let's try not to be short-sited. This is far more influential than your neighboorhood Meijer.

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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My guess is the developer has already "incentivized" the project. The $15 million is what is needed to get the rest of the way. The money would likely go to Walker infrastructure improvents (sewers, water lines, etc.) and the ever important water rentention. I'm not sure there is enough space on the current site for Cabela's to retain water for their huge parking lot. (Rockford Meijer is a good example of how much space you need to retain water for large parking lots) $15 million is nothing for the eventual upside of this project. Let's try not to be short-sited. This is far more influential than your neighboorhood Meijer.
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MJLO City

MJLO

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I think the state and Walker Made the right call, Walker is not hurting for development. Good message to send politically. Michigan may be going thru a little hiccup of a time economically, but our suburbs are still sprawling as ever with things popping up all the time. Subsidize things that will revitalize the struggling cities.

What's next? Mcdonalds wanting tax breaks to rebuild on 28th st?

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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A little more detail from WOODTV:

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5773571

And everything you ever wanted to know about Cabela's in Walker but were afraid to ask:

http://woodtv.triton.net/news/cabelas/walkerplans.pdf

A good point was raised that massive tax credits were given by the State to United Solar Ovonics for jobs created that pay a similar wage as Cabela's.

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CK1 Whistle-Stop

CK1

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I had originally thought that a West Michigan location would really draw a lot of people coming north from Chicago and northern Indiana. However, according to Cabela's presentation packet, they have stores opening in both Hoffman Estates, Illinois, and Hammond, Indiana, which more or less covers all of the Chicagoland area. Dundee covers anyone coming north out of Ohio and Southeastern Michigan. I say all this because I'd be curious if the Walker location really could draw 3.5 million money-wielding outdoor enthusiasts a year with the two nearest population draws already adequately covered. Shoot, if a Cabelas could make a go of it here with all these other locations 'nearby', I'd say bring on IKEA Grand Rapids!

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superNOVA Whistle-Stop

superNOVA

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I would think that if Cabela's thinks that they can draw 3.5 million, then they probably have faith in their number. It would be incredibly short sighted to prevent a development of this magnitude for a measly $15 million. In the whole scheme of things, even if it draws half of their expected numbers, it would easily pay for itself in spinoff development.

However, I understand that most here would rather not see another large mall in a corn field. But, the fact of the matter is, this is where it is going. Might as well get the most out of it, and something like Cabela's would definitely help in those regards.

But, I have no faith in this State government to do anything regarding development or major incentives for the West side. The evidence is pretty weak to support this. I doubt they will get the money to do this. I hate to make this an East vs. West fight, but lets be honest, I am sure that Dundee got a hell of a lot more, they got damn near the entire highway between AA and Toledo repaved for it.

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LanCity Unincorporated Area

LanCity

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Sikkema is in the paper saying that the MEDC is being "short sighted" because its not giving a 15 million dollar package to put a cabela's in a non contaminated area in Walker...

First off, Walker is not a core community... thus the only way brownfield incentives will work is if there is some sort of remediation necessary to justify the brownfield. Second, the "contamination" they're looking for would have to be farm related, something the law CLEARLY states is not justification for a facility. After their little petosky incident I can't blame the MEDC for taking a hard line stance on this one.

Third, back last spring there was legislation presented (Hildenbrand sponsored the brownfield portion) and killed that would take Core COmmunity incentives and let them trickle down to the village and township levels; NEZ's, OPRAs, 328's, and Brownfields would be the same for non-core communities and townships as they are for core communities. The fall out from this would be HUGE. That urban revitalization going on in grand rapids? Gone. Redevelopment of downtown Detroit? Over. All the growth and potential being bred in Lansing, Saginaw, Jackson, Muskegon, Flint, Bay City, etc.? No more.

Why? Because Townships are already at an advantage thanks to greenfield development and low tax base (since most of their services are provided by the county, and the core city's are not, they get to schuck a lot of those operational costs and save residents $$$$). Taking away the competitive advantage that Core City's get is only perpetuating urban sprawl and all the social, environmental, and physical costs that goes with it. Moreover, to do it so Walker gets a Cabela's is even more idiotic. No Greenfield Development should "need" an economic development incentive to make the deal work... it should only be used to make a shaky deal stronger...

So lets take a closer look at what is really "short sighted"

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walker Burg

walker

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Most of this has been said before but I just wanted to add my opinion. I think the 3.5 million will almost entirely be relatively local people who visit multiple times, sort of like the chronic shoppers at Rivertown mall. Surely there will be visitors from Indiana that will make a detour to stop by on their way up to the great northern frontier and they might stay a night in a Walker motel rather than say in Newaygo or on 28th Street. But it isn

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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I would think that if Cabela's thinks that they can draw 3.5 million, then they probably have faith in their number. It would be incredibly short sighted to prevent a development of this magnitude for a measly $15 million. In the whole scheme of things, even if it draws half of their expected numbers, it would easily pay for itself in spinoff development.

However, I understand that most here would rather not see another large mall in a corn field. But, the fact of the matter is, this is where it is going. Might as well get the most out of it, and something like Cabela's would definitely help in those regards.

But, I have no faith in this State government to do anything regarding development or major incentives for the West side. The evidence is pretty weak to support this. I doubt they will get the money to do this. I hate to make this an East vs. West fight, but lets be honest, I am sure that Dundee got a hell of a lot more, they got damn near the entire highway between AA and Toledo repaved for it.

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tamias6 Town

tamias6

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Granted I'd like to see the economic positives Cabela's would bring to Walker. But I too am questioning the $15 mill incentive to seal the deal. According to GRDad that store is planned to be 130,000 sq. ft. which leaves me asking this. Why did Meijer not ask for a 15 million dollar incentive that I know of to build the Standale store? After all at 207,000 sq. ft. it's much bigger than the planned Cabela's and draws alot of people too. Just like the planned Cebela's Meijer needed massive amounts of infrastructure improvments to get the store built much of which Meijer had to flip the bill for. So why Cabela's and not the Standale Meijer, Menards, the proposed Wal-Mart Supercenter, Home Depot, and even the Alpine Meijer renovation, all of which are well over 130,000 sq ft in size?

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DwntwnGeo Hamlet

DwntwnGeo

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Granted I'd like to see the economic positives Cabela's would bring to Walker. But I too am questioning the $15 mill incentive to seal the deal. According to GRDad that store is planned to be 130,000 sq. ft. which leaves me asking this. Why did Meijer not ask for a 15 million dollar incentive that I know of to build the Standale store? After all at 207,000 sq. ft. it's much bigger than the planned Cabela's and draws alot of people too. Just like the planned Cebela's Meijer needed massive amounts of infrastructure improvments to get the store built much of which Meijer had to flip the bill for. So why Cabela's and not the Standale Meijer, Menards, the proposed Wal-Mart Supercenter, Home Depot, and even the Alpine Meijer renovation, all of which are well over 130,000 sq ft in size?
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grmetro Unincorporated Area

grmetro

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Granted I'd like to see the economic positives Cabela's would bring to Walker. But I too am questioning the $15 mill incentive to seal the deal. According to GRDad that store is planned to be 130,000 sq. ft. which leaves me asking this. Why did Meijer not ask for a 15 million dollar incentive that I know of to build the Standale store? After all at 207,000 sq. ft. it's much bigger than the planned Cabela's and draws alot of people too. Just like the planned Cebela's Meijer needed massive amounts of infrastructure improvments to get the store built much of which Meijer had to flip the bill for. So why Cabela's and not the Standale Meijer, Menards, the proposed Wal-Mart Supercenter, Home Depot, and even the Alpine Meijer renovation, all of which are well over 130,000 sq ft in size?
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AlexPKeaton Burg

AlexPKeaton

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I agree, it would be stupid of Cabela's not to ask. Cabela's is a business and its shareholders expect management to do everything possible within the limits of the law to maximize profit. Seeing as they've been able to get tax incentives in the past they'd be stupid not to ask for them. It's just unfortunate that tax incentives have been abused to the point where Cabela's would pretty much just expect them to be granted. Anyway, we'll see how serious Cabela's is about that location now that the city and the state have turned them down.

-nb

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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Did Meijer, WalMart, Menards etc. even ask for an incentive? It doesn't hurt a company to ask does it? Maybe Cabela's will settle for 7.5Million or nothing at all, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Another thing to point out, there are several Meijer, Menards, Home Depots in the surrounding GR area so if they asked, the city would probably say "no" we can just drive a few extra miles and go to your other store down the street. With Cabela's the nearest one is more than 1 or 2 hours away. My point is it doesn't hurt to ask.
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DwntwnGeo Hamlet

DwntwnGeo

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Right, and how many people will really go out of their way to visit this Cabela's? It's smaller than the one in Dundee, and with another one being build in Indiana it doesn't seem like it will be quite the destination they're making it out to be.

-nb

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