Orchard Park Development

[FilmMaker]

And the phasing plan says the housing will happen after the retail. On one plan the housing areas are labeled as outlots.

The public and planning officials need to pay very close attention to subtle but potentially very revealing misrepresentations like this as the plan proceeds through the approval process. PUDs, while establishing what is perceived to be a semi-permanent plan for the future can, and often are modified as a development is built out. In some cases, revisions to a PUD are a good thing when they respond to changes requested by tenants or changes in how the public is responding to a PUD. But in other cases, these changes seem almost planned in advance by the developer. It can get to feeling like a pretty big exercise in "slight-of-hand" where (using this case as an example) residential is plugged in at first to gain approval for the PUD - and it is then replaced by retail at a later date because "the demand just isn't there". All the while, the developer's intent was for 100 percent retail all along. As a planner, I get very nervous when it comes to "phasing" of developments when mixed-use is the "sales pitch" being made to communities. It requires a very watchful eye both at the start and all along the way to final build out.

Regarding residential at Orchard Hills, I'm a little concerned that it would simply add another huge pile of rental stock to an already very saturated rental area. Just east on Alpine already exists one of the largest concentrations of rental housing in Michigan. And while I hate to make generalizations, that complex is not what I would call an idyllic, crime free area. Do Walker and Alpine really want a bunch more rental stock?

If so, Orchard Hills seems to be following a pattern set in Kentwood a few decades ago when Woodland and Eastbrook malls prompted the rapid establishment of "Rentwood". We now see this same thing happening around Rivertown. It would be interesting to see if demographic projections truly support yet another repeat of this pattern.

Regardless of final outcome, it sure makes me want to require Orchard Hills to somehow plan for a future presence of light rail connecting it to the core...

[GRDadof3]

Does anyone know how the site plan relates to those high-voltage power lines that run through the property?

Never mind, it appears to be marked by the red dotted lines, that run over top of the ponds running East to West across the property.

[grrwymg]

I think it's more that people are financed up to their damn ears or very 'creatively' financed and they just CAN'T budge for an offer. They're asking what they are becuase that's what they need.

When we were house hunting in '04, we put a bid on a house that we loved. But sellers wouldn't budge on price.

Our realtor did some digging and found out they had 2 home-equity loans outstanding. The 2 new cars in the driveway and the huge TV and entertainment equpment that they had all made sense.

I'm sorry, but I am *not* paying off your home-equity loans for all the toys you bought!

I'm glad we didn't get that one and waited.

[FilmMaker]

Does anyone know how the site plan relates to those high-voltage power lines that run through the property?

Never mind, it appears to be marked by the red dotted lines, that run over top of the ponds running East to West across the property.

I was going to raise this issue the other day as well but wasn't sure if it was relevant at the time. It certainly sheds interesting light on the viability of this proposed development - and it is an issue that several west side communities face - namely that there are several high-voltage routes running through them from the lakeshore to GR. Each presents a very challenging development conundrum.

It is not likely that high-end residential development will ever be desirable near these power lines. Hence the argument is often made that retail or high density rental housing is a better option. Then again, do power lines automatically make retail the only option? It is a conundrum indeed.

Allow me to offer one item for thought which we in Plainfield Township have recently been pondering as we update our Master Plan: utilities all run through easements or right-of-ways that typically prevent any structures from being built over or under them. They also typically run relatively direct routes through and between communities. Alas, what if we used these right-of-ways for bike paths and other means of non-automotive transportation? Aside from the construction cost, it could be relatively cheap because we'd save the tremendous cost of securing right-of-way rights - we'd simply need to pave or otherwise make the route travel-able. Furthermore, the routes created would be delightfully direct... and would connect areas that are not currently connected by pedestrian, bike or other non-automotive routes. All this is a pretty interesting notion which we are still exploring in our area. I'd be interested to see what others think about this concept on a broader scale.

For the sake of broad conversation, I'm also copying these comments into the mass-transit thread.

[CK1]

When we were house hunting in '04, we put a bid on a house that we loved. But sellers wouldn't budge on price.

I'm glad we didn't get that one and waited.

Bringing this full circle (since i kind of got it off topic in the first place), unless these housing units are very reasonably priced (i.e. in the $140 - $180 range), I can't imagine this will be a "build it and they will come" residential development. I am guessing that these places will be reaching the $200k's (assuming based on other similar developments in the area), and so I doubt I'll be waiting a couple of years for these places to be built.

While Orchard Park may reach a different type of buyer than downtown condo housing, the hundreds of condos downtown that will be built in the next few years can't bode well for this place. Combine that will the thousands of homes being proposed and built out in GR Township, Caledonia, Kentwood, Byron Center, Grandville, etc. etc., and even as far away as Lowell, Zeeland, and Grand Haven, and you have some serious competition.

[Veloise]

I think nowadays when developers throw out the word "walkable" it means "we're going to build some sidewalks to connect the parking lots"

Walk to Cabela's? Such a good idea!

"Honey, I gotta go pick up some more shotgun shells. Need any lures?"

[AlexPKeaton]

Actually, now that I think about it, if I lived there I could walk or ride to work. I work in the industrial park across the highway. The arial photo is a little outdated so it doesn't show my office.

-nb

[tamias6]

My only nitpick with this development is the asphalt parking seas esp. those around the proposed Cabella's. Replace all the surface lots or at least some with parking structures and I'd be happy. But what does one expect? This is still suberbia where endless asphalt reigns supreme.

http://www.ci.walker.mi.us/Departments/Pla...rkMPUDPlans.htm

It says walkable but it doesn't appear to be very walkable.

And the phasing plan says the housing will happen after the retail. On one plan the housing areas are labeled as outlots.

[michaelskis]

I think that these are neat projects. (However it would be nice to see this development in downtown)

I think that they Key will be to get what I think are the Four Requirements to actually sell. If it is going to be truly successful, they will need a combination of Retail, Office, Residential, and Entertainment/Service. While they hype the walk to work aspect, many of the retail establishments may not pay their employees a rate that would allow them to live in these establishments. Conversely, those who can afford to live there will want both retail and entertainment/service options available. Well that collection of population, office districts for mid-higher income persons will need to be available for those who don

[civitas]

GR PRESS

Orchard Park, near Int. 96 and Walker Avenue NW, will compete with the Village at Orchard Hills, at Three Mile Road and East Beltline Avenue NE, for the upper-end retailers needed to fill the developments.

"My belief is there is only going to be one project of any magnitude built," said Tom Carter of Trademark Property Co., the Fort Worth, Texas, developer for Orchard Park. "There's a sense of urgency on everyone's part."

[twoshort]

Makes sense.. Orchard Hills better kick it into high gear.

[snoogit]

Honestly, I'd rather see this Walker development done. The references of this area being underrepresented in retail is an underestimation in itself. The Walker Area needs a pick-me up something to have it compete with the east side of the city.

Theres so much potention on this side, that its not funny, its downright real.

[tamias6]

I just don't want Walker to look like another Cascade, Forest Hills, GRTWP, Kentwood, etc. with endless seas of subdivisons and big boxes. I am for this life style center to come into Walker because it would be a huge boost in the city's economy. Plus other than the surface lots the, complex looks like its well planed. There is alot of trees to downplay the lots and the big box I.e. the proposed Cabella's is well away from the any involved roads and looks like its surrounded by trees to screen it off from the surrounding area. I want things to happen to Walker, but I want the happenings to be in the form of quality instead of quantity.

[GR8scott]

Walker is one of the most disjointed cities i've seen, this kind of development alltough its on the citiy limit will only be good for the city, there is no way it can loose because what could happen to this project that would make the city worse off or most disjointed than it allready is now?

[egrguy]

GR PRESS

Orchard Park, near Int. 96 and Walker Avenue NW, will compete with the Village at Orchard Hills, at Three Mile Road and East Beltline Avenue NE, for the upper-end retailers needed to fill the developments.

"My belief is there is only going to be one project of any magnitude built," said Tom Carter of Trademark Property Co., the Fort Worth, Texas, developer for Orchard Park. "There's a sense of urgency on everyone's part."

This is Rivertown redux. We'll see if Walker evens things up to go 1-1.

[GRDadof3]

Tabled.

Does anyone know if this development will include a Ruth's Chris?

[tamias6]

Tabled.

Any one got a shovel, casket, and a tomb stone? I'm going to bury Orchard Parks next to the Mall that was supposed to go on that same piece of land several years ago. Why? Becuase said mall got just about the same response. "We need more time to look at it." the city said, but in the end the city killed it. When it comes to Walker and any large scale project this city tends to be all for it. But then somewhere along the way it loses nerve and says "No, we don't want it."

Oh well Life style centers are just a variation of urban sprawl anyway.

.....Next!

[Nitro]

Tabled.

Does anyone know if this development will include a Ruth's Chris?

Good god, I hope not. Ruth's Chris is one of my favorite places to eat at when I travel. Its the place I go when I want to have a really nice meal out.

If they get to a Johnny O'ChiliBees mentality, I'll probably stop going there. They usually put a Ruth's Chris in very nice areas. I'd rather see on in EGR.

[snoogit]

The only thing I have a problem with is the movie theatre, and bookstore otherwise this project should be a go.

[Veloise]

...If they get to a Johnny O'ChiliBees mentality, ...

Now that's funny.

I will use that next week when I "get" to spend a couple of days in Sprawlville OH. The boss loooves Carrabas (why??) and Outback (ditto??) and places of that ilk.

[time for an Olive Express fix for me!]

[tamias6]

Now that's funny.

I will use that next week when I "get" to spend a couple of days in Sprawlville OH. The boss loooves Carrabas (why??) and Outback (ditto??) and places of that ilk.

[time for an Olive Express fix for me!]

The Outback, eh? I've eaten there once and told myself, "If this is the way Ausies eat, I'm not going Down Under any time soon."

[GRDadof3]

Walker City Commission gives developer green light

"The developer also signed an agreement with the city to pay for any needed infrastructure the project might incur, saving Walker from paying the bill."

Hmm, does this developer want to work on anything downtown?

[snoogit]

Walker City Commission gives developer green light

"The developer also signed an agreement with the city to pay for any needed infrastructure the project might incur, saving Walker from paying the bill."

Hmm, does this developer want to work on anything downtown?

[Nitro]

They always try and hold out till the developer agrees to pay for infrastructure, its why the Standale Meijer was 2 yrs overdue. (Even though it was borderline Tallmadge Township's decision to make)

[snoogit]

I don't get it. Developers paying for infrastructure is standard protocol in every municipality that I've ever dealt with.

If we're lucky we can get some brownfield TIF's to help cover it but that's not always a given. Even when I worked for West Bloomfield Township on the other side of the state we made subdivision and commercial developers put in their own infrastructure and dedicate it to the township.

Municipal governments certainly don't have enough money to pay for that sort of thing.