Fairgrounds Speedway Racetrack expansion to 30,000 seats

[titanhog]

3 hours ago, samsonh said:

Things change. What has been will not always be.  There used to not be a soccer stadium and now there IS. If it makes financial sense to upgrade the track then we should do it. If it makes sense to demolish the track we should do it. Clearly the mayor's office and SMI are having trouble coming to an agreement, I am purely guessing that SMI wants to put as little money as possible into it and not guarantee debt and overages. 

 

I personally don’t care if they have the track there or not (I’m not a race fan)…but it has as much right to be there as a soccer stadium, if they can make the numbers work out.  For anyone saying it’s “too redneck”…again, that’s just an elitist, outright bigoted way to speak about people (not directed at you…but anyone who says that…or says anything similar about any group of people).

But…I realize a large portion of Nashvillians hate country music, rednecks and any other “rural” people who come here and spend their money or even decide to move here to make a living.  The city’s citizens (and some on this board) have shown themselves to not be accepting of diverse groups of people such as these.

[Luvemtall]

6 minutes ago, titanhog said:

But…I realize a large portion of Nashvillians hate country music, rednecks and any other “rural” people who come here and spend their money or even decide to move here to make a living.  The city’s citizens (and some on this board) have shown themselves to not be accepting of diverse groups of people such as these.

As I’ve said before, this whole world, all of us, need to check the hatefulness at the door. We all need to respect our neighbors, no matter the race, religious beliefs , political preferences and sexual orientation. It’s ok to be different, that’s the beauty of the human race, diversity. 

[samsonh]

14 minutes ago, titanhog said:

I personally don’t care if they have the track there or not (I’m not a race fan)…but it has as much right to be there as a soccer stadium, if they can make the numbers work out.  For anyone saying it’s “too redneck”…again, that’s just an elitist, outright bigoted way to speak about people (not directed at you…but anyone who says that…or says anything similar about any group of people).

But…I realize a large portion of Nashvillians hate country music, rednecks and any other “rural” people who come here and spend their money or even decide to move here to make a living.  The city’s citizens (and some on this board) have shown themselves to not be accepting of diverse groups of people such as these.

Agreed, I don’t care who comes and spends money. I like the titans but will fight against spending money on the stadium.

 

I think the city is definitely accepting of diversity. In the past few years there has been significant pushback by many locals who feel resources are going towards tourism vs residents. It’s a fine line to walk: the city needs tourism dollars, but it also needs to be a good place to live. Spending money on sports venues when the roads will pop your tire right now probably rubs people the wrong way.

[Rick Dalton]

I realize I’m being trolled but ‘redneck’ is not some defined group, it’s a slang term to define a certain lifestyle. I take no issue with rednecks in principle (my whole family is southern / rural), I just felt that the city is catering too heavily to that specific cohort. I don’t want Nashville to end up looking like Gatlinburg. 

[Licec]

Yeah Nashville is looking like Gatlinburg.

Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, Omni, Conrad, Grand Hyatt, JW Marriott, One Hotel, Edition Hotel, W Hotel.

Umm hmmph. Very Astute.

[Nash_12South]

Please folks, respect other people’s opinions. Especially when you expect the same. This race to bash other’s posts is getting petty. 

[Licec]

Gatlinburg tourism isn't bad at all. I much prefer Gatlinburg's tourism over say Atlanta's tourism.

[Rick Dalton]

56 minutes ago, Licec said:

Yeah Nashville is looking like Gatlinburg.

Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, Omni, Conrad, Grand Hyatt, JW Marriott, One Hotel, Edition Hotel, W Hotel.

Umm hmmph. Very Astute.

You’ve listed some of what I love about Nashville. I agree with all of the developments listed here as being good things. I said I don’t want Nashville to look like Gatlinburg, not that Nashville does look like Gatlinburg. Overall, Nashville is in a great spot. I just want metro investments to reflect the maturity of the city, as it ages into a higher tier of development. I think we have a lot to learn from Boston’s seaport / waterfront for example. The east bank should reflect that. We should hold the city to a high standard, not just invest for “more exposure”. We are already highly exposed, we need to continue to make the city more live-able, and more pristine.

Nascar investment is redundant with honky tonk investment. That’s my point.

[Baronakim]

20 hours ago, Licec said:

Gatlinburg tourism isn't bad at all. I much prefer Gatlinburg's tourism over say Atlanta's tourism.

Obviously you have a sense of taste about as refined as your knowledge of good architectural design IMO.  Gatlinburg (and the 30 miles all the way to interstate 40) is  a roadside junk yard of sideshows and discount shopping malls.    

Edited March 31, 2022 by Baronakim

[nashvylle]

16 minutes ago, WebberThomas4 said:

I’ve noticed from your previous responses on this thread that your views on the East Bank and the new stadium align with SUN’s views. That’s fine, but please do not tell me that their surveys are a consensus of the neighborhood. They ask very specific questions without any alternative. The outcome is predetermined.

Agree. The very specific questions regarding the racetrack renovations, which were not reflective of the current proposal, made their agenda obvious, as well as the fact that they allegedly did not respond to any of the subsequent calls from SMI. 

[Melrose]

19 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

Agree. The very specific questions regarding the racetrack renovations, which were not reflective of the current proposal, made their agenda obvious, as well as the fact that they allegedly did not respond to any of the subsequent calls from SMI. 

Again, which questions exactly and specifically do you take issue with? Let’s put up a copy of the survey and go through it.  

And your second claim is apparently not correct since SUN submitted a letter to the Fair Board saying they would meet in public with SMI,  but were not going to meet in private, and especially with no actual details released on the speedway proposal, which would then allow SMI to just say “we met with them” and then not have real discussions.  
 

Finally, what is the “current proposal” that the survey did not reflect?  Because no one seems to know what that is except for you. 

 

[nashvylle]

22 minutes ago, Melrose said:

Again, which questions exactly and specifically do you take issue with? Let’s put up a copy of the survey and go through it.  

And your second claim is apparently not correct since SUN submitted a letter to the Fair Board saying they would meet in public with SMI,  but were not going to meet in private, and especially with no actual details released on the speedway proposal, which would then allow SMI to just say “we met with them” and then not have real discussions.  
 

Finally, what is the “current proposal” that the survey did not reflect?  Because no one seems to know what that is except for you. 

 

Since you asked:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/opinion/2021/06/28/sun-community-engagement-nascar-negotiations/7776736002/

SUN: "Since nobody was talking to the neighbors in the areas around the Fairgrounds, we stepped up and started doing it ourselves"
SMI reached several community agreements within the immediate area of the racetrack. 

SUN Headlines:
- 74% all of residents "have concerns" about the expansion.
- 55% of residents do not support track expansion.

SUN Survey results:
- Top Concerns: NOISE 

LOL. The SMI proposal was very clear that their expansion involved noise mitigation strategies, such as sound barriers (up to 50% noise reduction), limiting practices, and mufflers. Did SUN mention this to residents in the survey? Nope. Would it have had an affect on the survey's results? Yes. Did SUN want to show a higher disapproval rate in order to gain leverage? Up for debate. 

https://tennesseelookout.com/2021/06/09/study-bristol-motorsports-plan-would-reduce-racing-noise-at-fairgrounds-nashville/

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by nashvylle

[DMilner]

1 hour ago, nashvylle said:

Agree. The very specific questions regarding the racetrack renovations, which were not reflective of the current proposal, made their agenda obvious, as well as the fact that they allegedly did not respond to any of the subsequent calls from SMI. 

To be fair, most of the neighbors are against the racetrack. SUN didn’t need to steer questions in any direction regarding the racetrack. And I say this as someone who has no allegiance to SUN. I don’t appreciate them coming to knock on doors at all hours of the day. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by DMilner

[titanhog]

Seems to me they would rather keep the crappy track we have now with no sound mitigation and as many races as they have now…instead of an updated track with less races, sound mitigation and one NASCAR level event a year.

Either way they go…there’s going to be racing…like there has been for 100 years.

[Melrose]

6 hours ago, titanhog said:

updated track with less races, sound mitigation and one NASCAR level event a year

If those things are actually proven true, I think the neighborhoods will support it.  But again,  there are no hard details, and rather the Fair Board seems to have pointed out the opposite (more races and practices)  about what is going on behind the scenes. 

 

6 hours ago, titanhog said:

there’s going to be racing…like there has been for 100 years.

Most of that time was horse racing, let's go all in on that!   

[titanhog]

40 minutes ago, Melrose said:

Most of that time was horse racing, let's go all in on that!   

Incorrect.  This is the 118th year of actual auto racing at the track…which also included some motorcycle racing and horse-carriage racing in the beginning.  1904…many entrants came from the World’s Fair in St. Louis and participated in a race…and Nashvillians marveled at cars going over 60 mph…in 1904.

[nashvylle]

1 hour ago, Melrose said:

If those things are actually proven true, I think the neighborhoods will support it.  But again,  there are no hard details, and rather the Fair Board seems to have pointed out the opposite (more races and practices)  about what is going on behind the scenes. 

Attached is the noise study presentation from SMI. I take this study with the same grain of salt I take SUN's survey. For example, the noise study was done by a firm for the race operator,  the noise cancellation is "up to" 50% reduction (not 50% reduction), and promises to use mufflers can be broken. However, less races/practices are part of the deal (not more), any noise reduction is better than what is existing today (and SUN survey failed to inform residents of the noise reduction efforts), and one council member (I believe it was Sherry Wiener, will confirm) does have a background in acoustical analysis.  Sherry did review SMI's study and did agree it has merit. 

By the way, the main opposition to the racetrack expansion came from the Fair Board came from Jason Bergeron, who resigned because he worked for Geodis, who has the naming rights of the soccer stadium.. not because he had different noise reduction calculations.

Below is the SUN survey results. As stated above, my main complaint is their questions  feel angled to get negative headlines in attempt to gain leverage in negotiations. I do like how with the Titans survey they had follow up questions (would you support public $ going to a new stadium if it had community benefits). Why couldn't they do this with the racetrack? Why couldn't they ask residents "do you want noise reduction from the racetrack? Are you aware that SMI has promised to incorporate sound mitigation in the expansion? Would you support the expansion if there was less practices and noise mitigation was truly incorporated?". They didn't.

Also, I do believe Odessa Kelly truly wants affordable housing, good jobs, etc. for the locals, but she is running for political office, and so of course anyone running wants as much press as possible. However, two things can be true at the same time (she does want good jobs/benefits AND wants people to know she is leading this cause). 

Finally, SUN is not the only organization in town. SMI did reach community agreements for the racetrack. 

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/davidson/2021/12/15/bristol-motor-speedway-announces-community-benefits-agreement/8911660002/

 

 

NFG-SpeedwayNoiseStudyPresentation-210608.pdf SUN-Racetrack-Expansion-Neighborhood-Survey-Presentation.pdf

Edited June 17, 2022 by nashvylle

[Melrose]

28 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

However, less races/practices are part of the deal (not more),

This does not seem to be what is in the draft agreements, so I guess we will have to wait and see.   See here at 30:30 or so:

 

29 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

SMI did reach community agreements for the racetrack. 

This is also not correct.  They gave something to the Fair Board called a "community benefits plan" and multiple Fair Board members said it was not really clear or concrete, see here at 37:00 or so and at 50:00 or so and 52:00 or so:

 

[nashvylle]

16 minutes ago, Melrose said:

This does not seem to be what is in the draft agreements, so I guess we will have to wait and see.   See here at 30:30 or so:

This is also not correct.  They gave something to the Fair Board called a "community benefits plan" and multiple Fair Board members said it was not really clear or concrete, see here at 37:00 or so and at 50:00 or so and 52:00 or so:

Thanks for the videos. 

As for the first one, That is jason bergeron speaking, who resigned due to conflict of interest. Does that mean he is wrong? No, but he could be. Also, many people accused Nashville Soccer Holdings of "acting in complete privacy" during their negotiations with the city, but a community benefits agreement was actually done. It took time, and right up to the day of the council vote. 

SMI has a community benefits plan right now, and I agree it's not finalized, but neither was Nashville SC's at this point in negotiations.

Back to the topic of SUN- did they state anything about a community benefits plan or noise reductions? No. That's my whole issue. 

[Bos2Nash]

@nashvylleand @Melrose

I have moved alot of your back and forth to the racetrack thread because it had very little to with the Titans stadium and more about the racetrack.

[smeagolsfree]

3 hours ago, Bos2Nash said:

@nashvylleand @Melrose

I have moved alot of your back and forth to the racetrack thread because it had very little to with the Titans stadium and more about the racetrack.

Is there something going to happen with the Titans stadium...................................

[markhollin]

After two years, why is there no deal on the Fairgrounds Speedway?

Overview piece of status at The Nashville Scene here:

https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/citylimits/questions-fairgrounds-speedway-deal/article_e0f3f540-1ce4-11ed-af5b-0f8aec4d00a0.html


 

[Rick Dalton]

Let’s leave NASCAR in the 20th century where it belongs 

[titanhog]

47 minutes ago, markhollin said:

After two years, why is there no deal on the Fairgrounds Speedway?

Overview piece of status at The Nashville Scene here:

https://www.nashvillescene.com/news/citylimits/questions-fairgrounds-speedway-deal/article_e0f3f540-1ce4-11ed-af5b-0f8aec4d00a0.html


 

Mayor appears to be dragging his feet.  However…you’d think the Bristol guys would be throwing a public fit if this were somehow slowing them down.

[Bos2Nash]

The article really doesn't report anything new unfortunately.

I believe that BMS should be required to pay all debt service, just like the soccer stadium, so that one definitely needs to get worked out. On the topic of a CBA, it is a bit more difficult to have as intricate at the soccer stadium agreement, because there is no additional development around the racetrack. That land was given away to soccer ownership in return for benefits and payments. Without that leverage, it is harder to negotiate all the debt service away. The Titans are looking for additional land around the stadium for a "Titans Village" so the city has the negotiating leverage for debt and a CBA. I just think the racetrack has been bookended in and it has left the city in a tight spot.

While the Cooper adminstration can certainly be more communicative - especially with council - if someone like CM Sledge has basically been non-supportive (thru his silence is how I got to that, unlike his loud support for soccer) of the possibility of Nascar at the racetrack, then why would the mayor what to give him advance copy of the proposed deal? I swear is any of the CMs bring up parking for events at the racetrack I'll call for each of their recalls because they didn't give a crap about that when planning the soccer stadium.

Basically, it comes down to political games..