Wealthy Street Mega Thread

[jthrasher]

11 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Little grouping of 3 townhouses coming to an empty lot at the end of Donald Place off Wealthy:

That looks great!  I love those 3 little streets and love the idea of development.  Most of the homes are in need of some work but with some work, that little community back there could be really fun.   Do you know who the developer/builder is? 

[GRDadof3]

9 minutes ago, jthrasher said:

That looks great!  I love those 3 little streets and love the idea of development.  Most of the homes are in need of some work but with some work, that little community back there could be really fun.   Do you know who the developer/builder is? 

I think it might be the Kent County Land Bank actually? Isaac V Norris is the architect. 

Edit: yes KCLB, GRCC and LINC Up. 

[ModSquad]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

I think it might be the Kent County Land Bank actually? Isaac V Norris is the architect. 

Edit: yes KCLB, GRCC and LINC Up. 

Yep, it is the KCLBA.  In fact I am thinking of changing my UP name to KCLBADave.  This is the first of many townhouse projects we hope to build in the next 18 months.  Here is what is unique to our town house development, the layout and design of the units is exactly the same.  In fact they can even be built stand alone.  The floor plan is 17x40 with garden basements.  The basement has a finished room and full bath. The main floor is completely wide open with no walls so it flows front to back, and the second floor has 2 bedrooms and a full bath with a balcony off the master.  

However, while the design is exactly the same as far as layout the outside can be finished to fit into the neighborhood.  I will try to post several examples of our design when I get a chance.

Here is the real kicker, they are zero lot single family homes, meaning the demising wall between the units is the parcel line.  There is a common easement for the drives and the yard.  The new zoning changes approved by the City a few weeks ago has language that allows for these to built with planning approval only, there is no need to go in for a full blown zoning change.  This is huge as it will save developers quite a bit of money.  There is no need to condo them, and the up front costs to get a permit are minimal.  

This project is the first one, and has the added detail of getting HPC approval.

We could have built two small single family homes on these two lots.  But this project allows us to get 3.  We have another site where we are building 5 on a site that would have only allowed 2.  Another benefit is because we are building these in areas where there has never been home ownership units like this before, our appraiser has to look outside the neighborhood to get comps.  

To us it ticks a lot of boxes

• Increased density,
• More inventory for a market starved for properties for sale
• Efficient design that lowers price per square foot
• An opportunity for GRCC to increase the number of students in their construction programs

[ModSquad]

[walker]

As a frequent patron of the Red Brick Pizza restaurant on the corner I’ve casually noted the condition and demographics of the three neighboring streets and particularly of Donald Place over the past few years.   While it is very heartening to see the improvements that have happened to the housing stock including the building of several new “old” looking houses, the demographics have definitely shifted.  Don’t like to mention race but since I never thought to survey people about their economic situation on my way into the restaurant, I’ll use race as a proxy here.  A few years ago the people on the street were mostly black and from their general appearance not exceptionally prosperous.  Now it’s mostly young nicely dressed white people I see in the neighborhood.  My observations are in no way scientific, so I could be missing something here, but I think these improvements have definitely been pushing many of the old neighborhood residents away. 

I usually consider the anti-gentrification rhetoric that people with an agenda like Jeff Smith spout to be overblown nonsense but here at least as I have casually observed it, is a real example of poor people being pushed out.  Obviously there is a lot more housing stock along the Wealthy corridor now than just a few years ago, and maybe the people that once lived on Donald Place have moved on to better new low cost housing not far away and they are really happy, or maybe some of them have made a killing selling their old poorly maintained houses to developers, I don’t know.  I like all the new stuff as well as anyone here (as long as it’s not a faux castle) but I kind of wonder about the other side of this too.

As I write this I see Dave has made a nice post about the new construction.  Obviously the new construction isn’t displacing anyone, but I wonder if he knows if there have been any kind of studies, casual or official, about movements of people in the neighborhoods.  Where do they go?                       
 

Edited April 17, 2017 by walker

[GR_Urbanist]

 

Oh I hope you guys can get hold of the mostly empty lot corner of Eastern and Cherry and do this one there!

 

 

 

[ModSquad]

7 hours ago, walker said:

As a frequent patron of the Red Brick Pizza restaurant on the corner I’ve casually noted the condition and demographics of the three neighboring streets and particularly of Donald Place over the past few years.   While it is very heartening to see the improvements that have happened to the housing stock including the building of several new “old” looking houses, the demographics have definitely shifted.  Don’t like to mention race but since I never thought to survey people about their economic situation on my way into the restaurant, I’ll use race as a proxy here.  A few years ago the people on the street were mostly black and from their general appearance not exceptionally prosperous.  Now it’s mostly young nicely dressed white people I see in the neighborhood.  My observations are in no way scientific, so I could be missing something here, but I think these improvements have definitely been pushing many of the old neighborhood residents away. 

I usually consider the anti-gentrification rhetoric that people with an agenda like Jeff Smith spout to be overblown nonsense but here at least as I have casually observed it, is a real example of poor people being pushed out.  Obviously there is a lot more housing stock along the Wealthy corridor now than just a few years ago, and maybe the people that once lived on Donald Place have moved on to better new low cost housing not far away and they are really happy, or maybe some of them have made a killing selling their old poorly maintained houses to developers, I don’t know.  I like all the new stuff as well as anyone here (as long as it’s not a faux castle) but I kind of wonder about the other side of this too.

As I write this I see Dave has made a nice post about the new construction.  Obviously the new construction isn’t displacing anyone, but I wonder if he knows if there have been any kind of studies, casual or official, about movements of people in the neighborhoods.  Where do they go?                       
 

Walker, if I could answer the question about gentrification in an Urban Planet post I think I could make millions writing a book.  One thing about housing, whether it be new construction or renovation of existing, when it happens in mass like has happened in the Baxter and surrounding neighborhood it has a huge effect on the value of all the real estate in that neighborhood.  This is true regardless of whether or not it is ownership or rental being built.

I was told that the Eastown and Baxter neighborhoods have seen the highest increase in average sales price in a 7 county region.

In general, without any sort of a study done,  I can tell you that unequivocally lower income households (demographically this means African American and Hispanic families) are being displaced from our City in startling numbers.  There is evidence of this is in the demographic changes we are seeing in Grand Rapids Public Schools and conversely Kentwood, Wyoming, Godwin Heights, and even Northview, and Comstock Park School systems.

Average rent for a 2 bedroom in Grand Rapids is approaching $900 a month.  

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, KCLBADave said:

Walker, if I could answer the question about gentrification in an Urban Planet post I think I could make millions writing a book.  One thing about housing, whether it be new construction or renovation of existing, when it happens in mass like has happened in the Baxter and surrounding neighborhood it has a huge effect on the value of all the real estate in that neighborhood.  This is true regardless of whether or not it is ownership or rental being built.

I was told that the Eastown and Baxter neighborhoods have seen the highest increase in average sales price in a 7 county region.

In general, without any sort of a study done,  I can tell you that unequivocally lower income households (demographically this means African American and Hispanic families) are being displaced from our City in startling numbers.  There is evidence of this is in the demographic changes we are seeing in Grand Rapids Public Schools and conversely Kentwood, Wyoming, Godwin Heights, and even Northview, and Comstock Park School systems.

Average rent for a 2 bedroom in Grand Rapids is approaching $900 a month.  

If I've said this once I've said it a million times, the key to keeping minority families in these neighborhoods is somehow getting them into ownership positions rather than tenant positions. A fixed rate mortgage payment doesn't increase, property taxes are capped at a very small increase every year per Proposal A, and homeowners insurance doesn't increase very much yearly (if at all, you can shop it around). FHA only requires 3% down. 

Easier said than done, I know. 

[mpchicago]

15 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

 

Oh I hope you guys can get hold of the mostly empty lot corner of Eastern and Cherry and do this one there!

 

 

 

What happened to the Cherry Street Capital plans for Eastern and Cherry?

[GRLaker]

15 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

 

Oh I hope you guys can get hold of the mostly empty lot corner of Eastern and Cherry and do this one there!

 

 

 

These units are a thing of beauty.  I love this look.

11 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

If I've said this once I've said it a million times, the key to keeping minority families in these neighborhoods is somehow getting them into ownership positions rather than tenant positions. A fixed rate mortgage payment doesn't increase, property taxes are capped at a very small increase every year per Proposal A, and homeowners insurance doesn't increase very much yearly (if at all, you can shop it around). FHA only requires 3% down. 

Easier said than done, I know. 

Now it's easier said than done. It would have been much more feasible a few years ago. But with rising rental costs and vastly increasing home values, first time home ownership is becoming more out of reach for those whose wages aren't keeping up.

[GRDadof3]

41 minutes ago, mpchicago said:

What happened to the Cherry Street Capital plans for Eastern and Cherry?

601 LMD is going full bore. I wonder if they're at capacity for funding?

38 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

These units are a thing of beauty.  I love this look.

Now it's easier said than done. It would have been much more feasible a few years ago. But with rising rental costs and vastly increasing home values, first time home ownership is becoming more out of reach for those whose wages aren't keeping up.

True. And landlords aren't giving up their investment properties, because they're getting such high rents. Doesn't ICCF have a mortgage company that helps with this? 

[ModSquad]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

601 LMD is going full bore. I wonder if they're at capacity for funding?

True. And landlords aren't giving up their investment properties, because they're getting such high rents. Doesn't ICCF have a mortgage company that helps with this? 

ICCF no longer has a mortgage company.  Getting existing residents in neighborhoods that are gentrifying or at risk of gentrification into home ownership is almost impossible because of the lack of inventory.  If you search GRAR this morning looking for a home to purchase in GR between $100K and $200K, which is an affordable range for a mortgage, you will only find 50 homes for sale right now. 

Then in your search actually look at the 28 homes that are priced from $100k to $150K and look at the location, size, and condition of the home.  

So there is literally no existing inventory for families to purchase.

That would lead one to say, well let's build in the City.  Actually there are a decent amount of build-able lots in these neighborhoods.  But you have a math problem.

• Buy a lot: $6,500-$15,000
• Build a 1,200 sf home at $150 per sf: $180,000
• Site costs (landscaping, driveway, sidewalks, etc): $10,000
• If you want a garage: $15,000
• Utility hook up fees: $5,000
• Total (without a contingency): $216,000

This is if a buyer is building their own home.  If it is a developer building to re-sell the cost to build goes way higher to factor profit and offset closing costs.

Tell me a neighborhood that is either gentrifying or at risk of gentrifying that can support a $216,000 to $250,000 price point?

[arcturus]

19 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

 

Oh I hope you guys can get hold of the mostly empty lot corner of Eastern and Cherry and do this one there!

 

 

 

Seeing this style all over.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/2202+W+Ohio+St,+Chicago,+IL+60612/@41.8921817,-87.6819818,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scjukgyn5eiHvM9IC3zOF2w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x880e2d4bee302461:0xb4f7a83b78ab8a00!8m2!3d41.8921837!4d-87.6819452!6m1!1e1

 

[GRDadof3]

2 hours ago, KCLBADave said:

ICCF no longer has a mortgage company.  Getting existing residents in neighborhoods that are gentrifying or at risk of gentrification into home ownership is almost impossible because of the lack of inventory.  If you search GRAR this morning looking for a home to purchase in GR between $100K and $200K, which is an affordable range for a mortgage, you will only find 50 homes for sale right now. 

Then in your search actually look at the 28 homes that are priced from $100k to $150K and look at the location, size, and condition of the home.  

So there is literally no existing inventory for families to purchase.

That would lead one to say, well let's build in the City.  Actually there are a decent amount of build-able lots in these neighborhoods.  But you have a math problem.

• Buy a lot: $6,500-$15,000
• Build a 1,200 sf home at $150 per sf: $180,000
• Site costs (landscaping, driveway, sidewalks, etc): $10,000
• If you want a garage: $15,000
• Utility hook up fees: $5,000
• Total (without a contingency): $216,000

This is if a buyer is building their own home.  If it is a developer building to re-sell the cost to build goes way higher to factor profit and offset closing costs.

Tell me a neighborhood that is either gentrifying or at risk of gentrifying that can support a $216,000 to $250,000 price point?

I'm mainly talking about tenants buying the homes that they're renting, if the landlords will part with them. 

Otherwise they're just victims to increasing rents and forced out. And rent controls on single family homes is virtually (literally) impossible. 

And yes, very few neighborhoods in the city can support that price range (would the house even appraise?)

[GVSUChris]

Looks like the facade is finally coming off of 650 Wealthy. Thank god. I'm glad to see all these little buildings along that stretch coming to life, especially as larger ones like the 616 project begin. 

[jthrasher]

27 minutes ago, GVSUChris said:

Looks like the facade is finally coming off of 650 Wealthy. Thank god. I'm glad to see all these little buildings along that stretch coming to life, especially as larger ones like the 616 project begin. 

I love seeing this area develop.  Especially since I'm flipping a house on Charles.  

 

3 hours ago, KCLBADave said:

ICCF no longer has a mortgage company.  Getting existing residents in neighborhoods that are gentrifying or at risk of gentrification into home ownership is almost impossible because of the lack of inventory.  If you search GRAR this morning looking for a home to purchase in GR between $100K and $200K, which is an affordable range for a mortgage, you will only find 50 homes for sale right now. 

Then in your search actually look at the 28 homes that are priced from $100k to $150K and look at the location, size, and condition of the home.  

So there is literally no existing inventory for families to purchase.

That would lead one to say, well let's build in the City.  Actually there are a decent amount of build-able lots in these neighborhoods.  But you have a math problem.

• Buy a lot: $6,500-$15,000
• Build a 1,200 sf home at $150 per sf: $180,000
• Site costs (landscaping, driveway, sidewalks, etc): $10,000
• If you want a garage: $15,000
• Utility hook up fees: $5,000
• Total (without a contingency): $216,000

This is if a buyer is building their own home.  If it is a developer building to re-sell the cost to build goes way higher to factor profit and offset closing costs.

Tell me a neighborhood that is either gentrifying or at risk of gentrifying that can support a $216,000 to $250,000 price point?

A house on Logan was just flipped and sold for 199,900 before it even hit the market.  The house I'm flipping on Charles st. will sell for more.  The Wealthy St. area can definitely support that price point.  

[Telecaster Rex]

1 hour ago, jthrasher said:

 

A house on Logan was just flipped and sold for 199,900 before it even hit the market.  The house I'm flipping on Charles st. will sell for more.  The Wealthy St. area can definitely support that price point.  

234 Charles SE sold as of 3/31/2017 for $269,000, this after selling in mid-2015 for $185,000

23 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

 

Oh I hope you guys can get hold of the mostly empty lot corner of Eastern and Cherry and do this one there!

 

 

 

Great look, but would never receive HPC or neighborhood (Cherry Hill) approval.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Telecaster Rex

[EastownLeo]

Old Striders Location at 1551 Wealthy will be a "Fitness" Gym.

Chain based.

 

http://www.thedaileymethod.com/studios/eastown-coming-soon/

Edited April 18, 2017 by EastownLeo

[x99]

7 hours ago, KCLBADave said:

ICCF no longer has a mortgage company.  Getting existing residents in neighborhoods that are gentrifying or at risk of gentrification into home ownership is almost impossible because of the lack of inventory.  If you search GRAR this morning looking for a home to purchase in GR between $100K and $200K, which is an affordable range for a mortgage, you will only find 50 homes for sale right now. 

Then in your search actually look at the 28 homes that are priced from $100k to $150K and look at the location, size, and condition of the home.  

So there is literally no existing inventory for families to purchase.

That would lead one to say, well let's build in the City.  Actually there are a decent amount of build-able lots in these neighborhoods.  But you have a math problem.

• Buy a lot: $6,500-$15,000
• Build a 1,200 sf home at $150 per sf: $180,000
• Site costs (landscaping, driveway, sidewalks, etc): $10,000
• If you want a garage: $15,000
• Utility hook up fees: $5,000
• Total (without a contingency): $216,000

This is if a buyer is building their own home.  If it is a developer building to re-sell the cost to build goes way higher to factor profit and offset closing costs.

Tell me a neighborhood that is either gentrifying or at risk of gentrifying that can support a $216,000 to $250,000 price point?

Screw new construction.  Drag a doublewide onto the lot for $40,000.00.  They are perfectly fine homes with very efficient floorplans.  And technically speaking, municipalities aren't supposed to be able to discriminate against them.  They ain't pretty, but they're a house.

[x99]

3 hours ago, jthrasher said:

I love seeing this area develop.  Especially since I'm flipping a house on Charles.  

 

A house on Logan was just flipped and sold for 199,900 before it even hit the market.  The house I'm flipping on Charles st. will sell for more.  The Wealthy St. area can definitely support that price point.  

Don't dilly-dally on a flip.  These crappy but quaint old houses with outrageous maintenance and upkeep costs are wildly overpriced, and will be the first thing to hit the skids.  They were last time.  I don't know a single realtor right now who doesn't think this is completely detached from anything even resembling reasonableness.  Most of them won't say it publicly, but everything in Eastown/Heritage Hill/Wealthy area right now is in for a monster of an adjustment.  The latest batch of buyers is eventually going to be put on their knees by the unanticipated heating and maintenance costs, just like the last batch was (unless they start making a lot more money really fast).  I mean, I hope this doesn't happen, but I look at the maintenance costs I incur, and it's enough to make a lot of people cry.

[Prankster]

6 minutes ago, x99 said:

Screw new construction.  Drag a doublewide onto the lot for $40,000.00.  They are perfectly fine homes with very efficient floorplans.  And technically speaking, municipalities aren't supposed to be able to discriminate against them.  They ain't pretty, but they're a house.

As long as it has turrets and dormers. 

[jthrasher]

1 hour ago, x99 said:

Don't dilly-dally on a flip.  These crappy but quaint old houses with outrageous maintenance and upkeep costs are wildly overpriced, and will be the first thing to hit the skids.  They were last time.  I don't know a single realtor right now who doesn't think this is completely detached from anything even resembling reasonableness.  Most of them won't say it publicly, but everything in Eastown/Heritage Hill/Wealthy area right now is in for a monster of an adjustment.  The latest batch of buyers is eventually going to be put on their knees by the unanticipated heating and maintenance costs, just like the last batch was (unless they start making a lot more money really fast).  I mean, I hope this doesn't happen, but I look at the maintenance costs I incur, and it's enough to make a lot of people cry.

The house I'm flipping will be essentially brand new, except for the foundation and basement.  There will be no other house in the neighborhood like it because it won't have wildly overpriced upkeep costs.  

 

1 hour ago, x99 said:

Screw new construction.  Drag a doublewide onto the lot for $40,000.00.  They are perfectly fine homes with very efficient floorplans.  And technically speaking, municipalities aren't supposed to be able to discriminate against them.  They ain't pretty, but they're a house.

They may be a house but they are horrible investments.   

[GRDadof3]

19 minutes ago, jthrasher said:

The house I'm flipping will be essentially brand new, except for the foundation and basement.  There will be no other house in the neighborhood like it because it won't have wildly overpriced upkeep costs.  

 

They may be a house but they are horrible investments.   

I think x99 was being facetious. I hope so anyway.

Go to the West Side I say. Not near West Side, far out West Side. Beautiful homes, neighborhoods and beautiful deals. And you don't have to pretend to be ironic. 

 

[ModSquad]

5 hours ago, Telecaster Rex said:

234 Charles SE sold as of 3/31/2017 for $269,000, this after selling in mid-2015 for $185,000

Great look, but would never receive HPC or neighborhood (Cherry Hill) approval.

I'm not so sure the modern design would not receive HPC approval.  Look at Ted Lott's place on Diamond, or the new construction home on the corner of Madison and Pleasant. Maybe not this exact design but with a few modifications to the materials choice, it might fly.

Right now at the KCLBA, we are seeing some pretty darn cool efficiently designed homes that builders are proposing on some of our empty lots.  I am hoping this housing shortage/crisis we are seeing will bring out more creativity to get more units per site.  If I get permission from the developers, I will share them.

[Telecaster Rex]

1 hour ago, KCLBADave said:

I'm not so sure the modern design would not receive HPC approval.  Look at Ted Lott's place on Diamond, or the new construction home on the corner of Madison and Pleasant. Maybe not this exact design but with a few modifications to the materials choice, it might fly.

 

I wouldn't disagree with you except for the fact that a similar "modern" looking design was handily shot down by HPC and the neighborhood 3 years ago.

And TBH, ...the neighborhood opinion here seems to carry more weight than HPC; only say that because I LIVE in the neighborhood (and don't assume I agree with the prevailing neighborhood opinion)....

Edited April 19, 2017 by Telecaster Rex