Wealthy Street Mega Thread

[GRDadof3]

http://www.grbj.com/articles/84294-production-is-numbers-game

 

[joeDowntown]

I predict we're hitting the saturation point for breweries in West Michigan. I think we'll still see a lot of growth (and potentially tap houses from Michigan Brewers looking to be part of the GR beer scene), but I'm curious to see how many small Brewers will make it. Or if we'll see the larger, known brands start to win out with larger facilities and brand recognition.

Thoughts?

Joe

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, joeDowntown said:

I predict we're hitting the saturation point for breweries in West Michigan. I think we'll still see a lot of growth (and potentially tap houses from Michigan Brewers looking to be part of the GR beer scene), but I'm curious to see how many small Brewers will make it. Or if we'll see the larger, known brands start to win out with larger facilities and brand recognition.

Thoughts?

Joe

Like any business, I think it depends on how much passion you have for the business. If you have investors, that puts a lot more pressure on the business to succeed. If you just want to have a brewpub and serve a regular crowd, you probably won't become a millionaire but you can probably squeak out a living. If you want to get into distribution, it's probably more difficult to get shelf/cooler space than it was 10 years ago. If Grand Rapids becomes more nationally known as a top beer producer, that opens a lot of doors in other States. 

[elcelc]

Elk expansion confirmed.  Two locations.

http://mibiz.com/item/23256-elk-brewing-of-grand-rapids-plans-second-location-in-comstock-park

 

 

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, elcelc said:

Elk expansion confirmed.  Two locations.

http://mibiz.com/item/23256-elk-brewing-of-grand-rapids-plans-second-location-in-comstock-park

 

 

Appears that they're taking over the old Burger King? That's the only thing close to 3000 sf near that corner. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0464127,-85.6568014,3a,75y,295.36h,86.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s952C6CnmT4RqwgpJvR-y1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[EastownLeo]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

Appears that they're taking over the old Burger King? That's the only thing close to 3000 sf near that corner. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0464127,-85.6568014,3a,75y,295.36h,86.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s952C6CnmT4RqwgpJvR-y1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

From what I heard the are doing construction.  Poured foundations a week or two ago.

[ctpgr34]

18 minutes ago, EastownLeo said:

From what I heard the are doing construction.  Poured foundations a week or two ago.

If that's the case, not sure where it is going.  I drove by that BK this weekend and it is still standing.  I wasn't able to pay attention to the surrounding lots though.

[thebeerqueer]

23 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

I predict we're hitting the saturation point for breweries in West Michigan. I think we'll still see a lot of growth (and potentially tap houses from Michigan Brewers looking to be part of the GR beer scene), but I'm curious to see how many small Brewers will make it. Or if we'll see the larger, known brands start to win out with larger facilities and brand recognition.

Thoughts?

Joe

“I find that people with passion add to the culture of craft beer, while those without that passion, and just thinking of it as a business opportunity, tend to just extract from it,” Spaulding said.

“Eventually, craft beer enthusiasts can sniff this out, and those without that passion will fade away.”

 

This quote from the GRBJ article mirrors my thoughts on the saturation point for the GR beer scene. While many places are opening or in the works, it really boils down to the finished product. The places producing good beer will continue operations and the places producing bad (or mediocre) beer will struggle and close. GR has a pretty good nose for good beer already, so every place has to bring their A game, no phone-ing it in here.

[EastownLeo]

16 minutes ago, thebeerqueer said:

“I find that people with passion add to the culture of craft beer, while those without that passion, and just thinking of it as a business opportunity, tend to just extract from it,” Spaulding said.

“Eventually, craft beer enthusiasts can sniff this out, and those without that passion will fade away.”

 

This quote from the GRBJ article mirrors my thoughts on the saturation point for the GR beer scene. While many places are opening or in the works, it really boils down to the finished product. The places producing good beer will continue operations and the places producing bad (or mediocre) beer will struggle and close. GR has a pretty good nose for good beer already, so every place has to bring their A game, no phone-ing it in here.

I also think that GR is not opening many "Bars"  The only new "Bars" that I can think of are Sidebar, Otherwise they are just rebranding or new ownership of the same location.  Breweries are the  taking the place of new Bar growth.  Makes sense when you can hold on to much more of the profit, and control of the final product.  

Also the Brewing industry has just fully recovered from the prohibition in the amount of breweries in the US.  With the population so much higher I don't think we have hit a national saturation but locally  I would love to see the numbers  and Production comparisons.

 

 

[ctpgr34]

3 hours ago, EastownLeo said:

From what I heard the are doing construction.  Poured foundations a week or two ago.

I have been told it is the land behind Jet's, Biggy 

 

[joeDowntown]

Agreed with what others said about quality. Should have mentioned that when I posed the question. I'm sure the saturation point partially depends on what the owner is expecting (large distribution vs. small local operation), quality of product and other factors. I'm hoping that all of these breweries are in it for a good quality product and not just because there is a void in one particular area, but I'm sure the market will dictate who makes it or not.

Joe

[GRDadof3]

6 hours ago, EastownLeo said:

I also think that GR is not opening many "Bars"  The only new "Bars" that I can think of are Sidebar, Otherwise they are just rebranding or new ownership of the same location.  Breweries are the  taking the place of new Bar growth.  Makes sense when you can hold on to much more of the profit, and control of the final product.  

Also the Brewing industry has just fully recovered from the prohibition in the amount of breweries in the US.  With the population so much higher I don't think we have hit a national saturation but locally  I would love to see the numbers  and Production comparisons.

 

 

 

Not only are they a different way to brand a new "bar," they're also a different way to brand a new restaurant, since most of the larger brewpubs also serve food. Why go to Crapplebees when you can go to Perrin and get good beer and pretty good food? (as an example) Or Harmony and get good pizza with your good beer? They're stealing market share away from national chain restaurants for sure. 

Most of the 50 some breweries that will be open in GR by the end of this year probably won't produce much beyond what they make in their brewpub, and don't necessarily have to to be successful (as a restaurant/pub). 

[EastownLeo]

Founder's is expanding again.

We’re expanding…again! This time, we’re adding a second building just a mile south of our current location in the heart of Grand Rapids. The new building will be used for warehousing and distribution, but it will also be the home of our second brewery, which will focus exclusively on the barrel-aged, experimental, high-gravity and specialty beers that we've become known for. That means many of our beloved limited, specialty and Backstage Series beers will be brewed here – but it's also is a space for us to experiment with new, innovative styles of beer. Hell yeah!  

More details: http://bit.ly/meet900hynes

 

https://www.facebook.com/foundersbrewing/photos/a.105928849454573.3541.103505493030242/967574363290013/?type=3&theater

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, EastownLeo said:

Founder's is expanding again.

We’re expanding…again! This time, we’re adding a second building just a mile south of our current location in the heart of Grand Rapids. The new building will be used for warehousing and distribution, but it will also be the home of our second brewery, which will focus exclusively on the barrel-aged, experimental, high-gravity and specialty beers that we've become known for. That means many of our beloved limited, specialty and Backstage Series beers will be brewed here – but it's also is a space for us to experiment with new, innovative styles of beer. Hell yeah!  

More details: http://bit.ly/meet900hynes

 

https://www.facebook.com/foundersbrewing/photos/a.105928849454573.3541.103505493030242/967574363290013/?type=3&theater

That's great that they're continuing to invest in the city of GR. 

In regard to Elk, yep, behind Biggby.

 

 

 

[EastownLeo]

44 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

That's great that they're continuing to invest in the city of GR. 

In regard to Elk, yep, behind Biggby.

 

 

 

What are your thoughts on the location?  Is it too far off the main drive?

 

[GRDadof3]

20 minutes ago, EastownLeo said:

What are your thoughts on the location?  Is it too far off the main drive?

 

Hmmm, no I don't think so. I spotted the foundation work right away when I was driving on West River Drive. That's even before the brewpub has gone up. 

[egrguy]

Founders' continued expansion is amazing. the fact that they are staying in greater downtown is great too.

GRNow had a list of 24 new places opening this year (http://www.grnow.com/24-restaurants-breweries-and-distilleries-opening-in-grand-rapids-in-2016/) and the amount of people that commented along the lines of "I can't believe there are more breweries opening, don't we have enough?" leads me to believe that these people love Applebees. 

Would you rather have another Applebees/Chili's or a local brewery? Many of these new options are taking the place of a generic chain restaurant and in that sense, I think the GR area has plenty of room to absorb more breweries at the direct cost to your standard sit down chain restaurants.

[GRDadof3]

6 hours ago, jdkacz said:

Founders' continued expansion is amazing. the fact that they are staying in greater downtown is great too.

GRNow had a list of 24 new places opening this year (http://www.grnow.com/24-restaurants-breweries-and-distilleries-opening-in-grand-rapids-in-2016/) and the amount of people that commented along the lines of "I can't believe there are more breweries opening, don't we have enough?" leads me to believe that these people love Applebees. 

Would you rather have another Applebees/Chili's or a local brewery? Many of these new options are taking the place of a generic chain restaurant and in that sense, I think the GR area has plenty of room to absorb more breweries at the direct cost to your standard sit down chain restaurants.

Yes! I don't understand the "don't we have enough of X businesses?" people. The market will take care of the excess. Unless you actually have money invested in one of these businesses, why do you care? 

Are you going to stop going to breweries because there are too many of them? 

[RegalTDP]

13 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Yes! I don't understand the "don't we have enough of X businesses?" people. The market will take care of the excess. Unless you actually have money invested in one of these businesses, why do you care? 

Are you going to stop going to breweries because there are too many of them? 

I think the lesson here is that the newcomers will have to be more unique in how they brand themselves.  The image of "the local neighborhood craft brewery, proudly made in MI" isn't going to be enough anymore.  They have to offer something new to the market.

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, RegalTDP said:

I think the lesson here is that the newcomers will have to be more unique in how they brand themselves.  The image of "the local neighborhood craft brewery, proudly made in MI" isn't going to be enough anymore.  They have to offer something new to the market.

Isn't that the case for any new business? 4 out of 5 small businesses fail within the first five years, breweries are no exception. I think hundreds of people should open breweries here this year. The pressure to be innovative would be incredible. 

The biggest threat to the craft brewing industry that I see isn't any perceived "bubble" of growth. It's mergers and acquisitions, and the stifling of growth if big brewers start eating up distributors and monopolizing store shelves. If Founders gets taken over by AB InBev or some other biggie, this area may get screwed. 

 

[egrguy]

42 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Isn't that the case for any new business? 4 out of 5 small businesses fail within the first five years, breweries are no exception. I think hundreds of people should open breweries here this year. The pressure to be innovative would be incredible. 

The biggest threat to the craft brewing industry that I see isn't any perceived "bubble" of growth. It's mergers and acquisitions, and the stifling of growth if big brewers start eating up distributors and monopolizing store shelves. If Founders gets taken over by AB InBev or some other biggie, this area may get screwed. 

 

I really hope Founders jumped the gun with their "limited merger" with  Mahou San Miguel. Although, that doesn't mean that they could not get bought out, however, I am hopefully since both companies are family run, that keeps the odds lower.

[discgrab21]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

The biggest threat to the craft brewing industry that I see isn't any perceived "bubble" of growth. It's mergers and acquisitions, and the stifling of growth if big brewers start eating up distributors and monopolizing store shelves. If Founders gets taken over by AB InBev or some other biggie, this area may get screwed. 

 

InBev has already started doing this and the feds are already investigating for potential anti-trust violations.

[thebeerqueer]

44 minutes ago, jdkacz said:

I really hope Founders jumped the gun with their "limited merger" with  Mahou San Miguel. Although, that doesn't mean that they could not get bought out, however, I am hopefully since both companies are family run, that keeps the odds lower.

After listening to a Strange Brews podcast about the merger, it was clear that the decision was made to support expanded distribution into Europe. Sure you can get Founders in most big cities in Europe but it might not be super fresh or the selection could be limited. I would imagine you'll see All Day IPA all over UK, Ireland, Scandinavia and central Europe in no time.

[droonus2000]

1 hour ago, thebeerqueer said:

After listening to a Strange Brews podcast about the merger, it was clear that the decision was made to support expanded distribution into Europe. Sure you can get Founders in most big cities in Europe but it might not be super fresh or the selection could be limited. I would imagine you'll see All Day IPA all over UK, Ireland, Scandinavia and central Europe in no time.

I haven't heard the podcast, but that's always been my line of thinking with the deal. Founders needed cash for expansion, and why not take advantage of a mature distribution network in Europe at the same time.

A fair number of the west coast breweries have east coast locations now, Founders seems to be working towards Europe rather than a Califonia brewing/distribution location, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[GRDadof3]

7 hours ago, jdkacz said:

I really hope Founders jumped the gun with their "limited merger" with  Mahou San Miguel. Although, that doesn't mean that they could not get bought out, however, I am hopefully since both companies are family run, that keeps the odds lower.

I think you're on to something. For any buyout by a biggie like InBev, San Miguel would have to approve the deal. It adds another layer of approval that would need to be garnered.