Headwaters Resort & Casino (Proposed)

[BeagleAccountant]

 

Apparently Norfolk is considering opening up the process to other casino operators. 

[brikkman]

1 hour ago, BeagleAccountant said:

 

Apparently Norfolk is considering opening up the process to other casino operators. 

In comes cordish!!!!!

[BFG]

2 hours ago, BeagleAccountant said:

 

Apparently Norfolk is considering opening up the process to other casino operators. 

New city manager wants to hit the ground running? Maybe we see some action on the arena? Hell I’d even take a massive overhaul of Scope. 

[HRVA]

Norfolk casino developer details plans to Architectural Review Board

Quote

Thompson projected beginning construction on the first phase by the end of 2023, pending City Council approval. Construction on the second phase would begin 12 to 14 months later, with the full project completed within 24 months of the start.

Based on the timeline, the full project could be completed by the end of 2025. I don't expect that. That's an aggressive timeline especially with the phasing. 

[baobabs727]

THIS IS A TOTAL SHIZZ SHOW.  FROM THE BEGINNING, I SAID THERE SHOULD BE AN RFP. I HAVE ALSO QUESTIONED THE $500M promised investment. Now we read that phase 1 is only $150M $100M. The State mandates a minimum investment of $300M for these casinos.  Remember, they originally promised $700M.  NOW THERE IS NO WAY THEY ARE EVEN MAKING IT TO $500M, or $400M...or quite possibly not even to $300M.  There is no firm construction timetable and the total number of gaming tables, slots, etc...is not or cannot be confirmed...or RE-CONFIRMED at this time.  The City is considering a "stirring up the hornet's nest" strategy...and I say it's not a strategy...it's a PIVOT, an AUDIBLE...a DO-OVER...NOW.  Dare the Pawmunkey to file suit. Their PHASED APPROACH WAS NOT....NOT....SPELLED OUT IN THE AGREEMENT...and is therefore NOT in compliance. 

FIRE KENNY AND THE ENTIRE LOT OF THESE INCOMPETENT BOZOS ON NORFOLK CITY  CONCIL.

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

10 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

THIS IS A TOTAL SHIZZ SHOW.  FROM THE BEGINNING, I SAID THERE SHOULD BE AN RFP. I HAVE ALSO QUESTIONED THE $500M promised investment. Now we read that phase 1 is only $150M $100M. The State mandates a minimum investment of $300M for these casinos.  Remember, they originally promised $700M.  NOW THERE IS NO WAY THEY ARE EVEN MAKING IT TO $500M, or $400M...or quite possibly not even to $300M.  There is no firm construction timetable and the total number of gaming tables, slots, etc...is not or cannot be confirmed...or RE-CONFIRMED at this time.  The City is considering a "stirring up the hornet's nest" strategy...and I say it's not a strategy...it's a PIVOT, an AUDIBLE...a DO-OVER...NOW.  Dare the Pawmunkey to file suit. Their PHASED APPROACH WAS NOT....NOT....SPELLED OUT IN THE AGREEMENT...and is therefore NOT in compliance. 

FIRE KENNY AND THE ENTIRE LOT OF THESE INCOMPETENT BOZOS ON NORFOLK CITY  CONCIL.

 

"The total cost is projected at $500 million."

^^^^ This is from the article and this is what they presented to the city. You may well be right, but officially it's still billed as a $500 million project.

[mintscraft56]

13 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

THIS IS A TOTAL SHIZZ SHOW.  FROM THE BEGINNING, I SAID THERE SHOULD BE AN RFP. I HAVE ALSO QUESTIONED THE $500M promised investment. Now we read that phase 1 is only $150M $100M. The State mandates a minimum investment of $300M for these casinos.  Remember, they originally promised $700M.  NOW THERE IS NO WAY THEY ARE EVEN MAKING IT TO $500M, or $400M...or quite possibly not even to $300M.  There is no firm construction timetable and the total number of gaming tables, slots, etc...is not or cannot be confirmed...or RE-CONFIRMED at this time.  The City is considering a "stirring up the hornet's nest" strategy...and I say it's not a strategy...it's a PIVOT, an AUDIBLE...a DO-OVER...NOW.  Dare the Pawmunkey to file suit. Their PHASED APPROACH WAS NOT....NOT....SPELLED OUT IN THE AGREEMENT...and is therefore NOT in compliance. 

FIRE KENNY AND THE ENTIRE LOT OF THESE INCOMPETENT BOZOS ON NORFOLK CITY  CONCIL.

 

Thats quite the take on the issue. I cant say your wrong though. Its been tough with this casino drama. 

[baobabs727]

12 hours ago, vdogg said:

"The total cost is projected at $500 million."

^^^^ This is from the article and this is what they presented to the city. You may well be right, but officially it's still billed as a $500 million project.

TRUST BUT VERIFY.

I hope you're right. 

But it's getting more difficult by the hour to willingly suspend my disbelief here.

Did you read the investigative piece?  

9 hours ago, mintscraft56 said:

Thats quite the take on the issue. I cant say your wrong though. Its been tough with this casino drama. 

I don't want to be right. I want to see the moon and stars align for this project. Promises made, promises kept. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

What a s___show. Developer is putting this on the city, not sure if I buy that just yet. Whatever the reason, this seems to be another delay...

https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/07/24/norfolk-casino-developer-pulls-pared-down-plan-from-city-review/?lctg=65B674C414BF646764B78480B8&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=https%3a%2f%2fwww.pilotonline.com%2f2023%2f07%2f24%2fnorfolk-casino-developer-pulls-pared-down-plan-from-city-review%2f&utm_campaign=Breaking-News&utm_content=Alerts

"NORFOLK — The developer of the proposed Headwaters Resort and Casino next to Harbor Park pulled their development application from review by the city’s architectural review board Monday, according to city documents.

The city recommended the team of HeadWaters Resort and Casino development not present the application needed for a building certificate for the first phase of the casino, according to a Monday news release from a spokesperson for the casino development group.

The decision to withdraw the plans comes after the Pamunkey Indian Tribe and their development partners had submitted a pared down plan in June that proposed building the casino and hotel in two separate phases.

The Pamunkey tribe, development team and city officials will instead meet privately Tuesday, according to a spokesperson for the developer. The review board’s agenda states the review was “indefinitely deferred by applicant.” The city sent the tribe and development team a letter on July 14, providing contradicting directions to a previous letter from the city dated March 1, according to the release. The tribe and development team requested a meeting after the most recent letter to “to get clarity from the City on its proposed path to acquire the land and begin construction on the resort as soon as possible,” "

[BFG]

My head hurts. Time for the city to look at other options. This has gone on long enough.

[BeagleAccountant]

Get out of the deal, put it out for RFP and let's restart the process to do it right with a partner who can follow through.

[baobabs727]

HAHA. My old ward and superward (McClellan and Doyle) reps have NEVER once responded to my calls for an RFP going back many, many moons...nor have they responded to any emails re: the lack of progress, design issues, lack of details, etc. Now, I will say that they both did respond to an email I sent about the fate of Maury H.S...after I moved away.  Like immediately. LOL. Sigh.    

[EJ_LEWIS]

It just seems that the Pamunkey tribe and city again do not know what they are doing.  Time to kill this project and start over again, this time with a developer with experience building casinos.   The city needs to clearly communicate with the developer on what they desire to be built at this location or at another location.  Maybe they can work through the miscommunication problem and re-submit Headwaters to the Architectural Board.  Just get this thing done or forget about it!

[carolinaboy]

Terrible location? Check.

Watered-down scope of project? Check.

Overwhelmed "developer"? Check.

Failed project? Check.

 

Kill this deal. Revisit the idea of a casino at Waterside District or perhaps as part of a "re-imagined"  Macarthur Center Mall. Hell, just close the mall as a shopping center and make half of it a casino and the other half an arena.

 

[HRVT]

45 minutes ago, carolinaboy said:

Terrible location? Check.

Watered-down scope of project? Check.

Overwhelmed "developer"? Check.

Failed project? Check.

 

Kill this deal. Revisit the idea of a casino at Waterside District or perhaps as part of a "re-imagined"  Macarthur Center Mall. Hell, just close the mall as a shopping center and make half of it a casino and the other half an arena.

 

There's plenty of space there for a casino/hotel high rise, a mid/high rise apartment building, AND potentially retail/entertainment (potentially integrated with the apartments). Or maybe put the new arena there as well and use the Scope land for a high rise apartment tower.

The Harbor Park casino proposal was a loser from the start. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by HRVT

[NFKjeff]

24 minutes ago, HRVT said:

There's plenty of space there for a casino/hotel high rise, a mid/high rise apartment building, AND potentially retail/entertainment (potentially integrated with the apartments). Or maybe put the new arena there as well and use the Scope land for a high rise apartment tower.

The Harbor Park casino proposal was a loser from the start. 

If I'm  not mistaken the casino referendum was for only it's current location. I could be wrong, but if so the whole thing would have to go to a vote again, and I'm not sure what it's prospects would be.

[vdogg]

1 hour ago, NFKjeff said:

If I'm  not mistaken the casino referendum was for only it's current location. I could be wrong, but if so the whole thing would have to go to a vote again, and I'm not sure what it's prospects would be.

I think it would easily pass again, but a new referendum entails several years of delay, and endangers funding for the flood wall. 

[carolinaboy]

The infrastructure for a casino already exists. Macarthur Mall is perfect. Parking already built. Plenty of floor space. Location is great (in central downtown as opposed to an industrial waterfront). Access to light rail. Plus the outparcel lot could be developed as the casino hotel. I mean, aside from the legalities of a casino permit, Macarthur is a ready-to-go site.  I swear that building/site could accommodate a casino, an arena, a convention center and a new high-rise hotel as well as some sprinkled-in street level retail.

[BFG]

41 minutes ago, carolinaboy said:

The infrastructure for a casino already exists. Macarthur Mall is perfect. Parking already built. Plenty of floor space. Location is great (in central downtown as opposed to an industrial waterfront). Access to light rail. Plus the outparcel lot could be developed as the casino hotel. I mean, aside from the legalities of a casino permit, Macarthur is a ready-to-go site.  I swear that building/site could accommodate a casino, an arena, a convention center and a new high-rise hotel as well as some sprinkled-in street level retail.

Sounds great. Can’t wait to go to the grand opening in 2041!

[carolinaboy]

13 hours ago, BFG said:

Sounds great. Can’t wait to go to the grand opening in 2041!

Well it seems the Pamunkey thing isn't happening any time soon. What's a few more years?

[EJ_LEWIS]

I would be really surprised if the city decides to build a casino on the McArthur site. I think the long term vision for the mall is to redevelop it into a mixed use development.  This seems like a better fit for the mall property then a casino.  Now I do think a casino next to Waterside developed by Cordish would work perfectly.  

[BFG]

Honestly I’d convert Waterside itself to a casino with a few restaurants like Guy Fieri’s. It would be on the smaller side but I think it would get more visitors. 

[carolinaboy]

37 minutes ago, BFG said:

Honestly I’d convert Waterside itself to a casino with a few restaurants like Guy Fieri’s. It would be on the smaller side but I think it would get more visitors. 

A good idea.

Certainly either Waterside or Macarthur could be converted into a casino.

[zeppelin14]

The best option for a casino would be where the Waterside annex used to be (Hooters former site). This way you have the casino side and the restaurant side that already exists which in my opinion is struggling and could use a boost.

[HRVT]

3 hours ago, BFG said:

Honestly I’d convert Waterside itself to a casino with a few restaurants like Guy Fieri’s. It would be on the smaller side but I think it would get more visitors. 

I dont know if its big enough to handle the traffic it would get. Maybe in the footprint of the former annex, the gaming floor could be expanded and a high rise hotel placed on top?

 

3 hours ago, EJ_LEWIS said:

I would be really surprised if the city decides to build a casino on the McArthur site. I think the long term vision for the mall is to redevelop it into a mixed use development.  This seems like a better fit for the mall property then a casino.  Now I do think a casino next to Waterside developed by Cordish would work perfectly.  

I don't think it (casino at the mall site) happens either. I'm betting on mixed use with ground floor retail and mid-rise apartments with maybe a hotel and smaller convention center sprinkled in.