Headwaters Resort & Casino (Proposed)

[vdogg]

20 minutes ago, baobabs727 said:

No. If that thing is permanent, I call bullcrap. It’s hideous. Are they not going to have the larger casino with decent and architecture at 90k sf for the gaming floor and hotel? I understand hotel is in a future phase? So this is not the temp build. No. Unacceptable.  This is the kind of crap you get when you don’t put out an RFP and instead you take some amateur casino operators who have never done anything in their lives even approaching a project such as this in the gaming industry.

https://www.13newsnow.com/article/news/local/mycity/norfolk/headwaters-resort-casino-in-norfolk-phase-one-plans/291-d8573eeb-15a3-4601-a74f-38539eef54f0

"Jay Smith, a spokesperson for the HeadWaters project, detailed to 13News Now that the idea is now to build the full casino project in two phases, the first of which will operate until Phase 2 is complete which includes the hotel and improvements to the Elizabeth River shoreline."

“Once we start operating, we have a clock, that we have to have the rest of the product done within two years," Smith said."

Looks like Norfolk covered their bases with this one. It's entirely possible that the Norfolk Hotel will actually be built before the Portsmouth one, since Portsmouth has a much weaker clause.

[baobabs727]

Thank you for the link, but does that mean that the casino floor will never be any bigger than 45,000 ft.²? It doesn’t say exactly what phase 2 will and will not include. Remember they have to spend $500 million by contract I believe. I don’t think they’re going to make it.

So my question remains: Has the size of the project (especially the gaming floor) been scaled back? Has the total dollar investment been scaled back? Has the architecture been dumbed down? Has much of the glass been removed? It looks like you’re pulling up to an airport from another era. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

1 hour ago, baobabs727 said:

Thank you for the link, but does that mean that the casino floor will never be any bigger than 45,000 ft.²? It doesn’t say exactly what phase 2 will and will not include. Remember they have to spend $500 million by contract I believe. I don’t think they’re going to make it.

So my question remains: Has the size of the project (especially the gaming floor) been scaled back? Has the total dollar investment been scaled back? Has the architecture been dumbed down? Has much of the glass been removed? It looks like you’re pulling up to an airport from another era. 

The hotel portion looks the same as the previous renderings that we received last year, there is casino floor still under the hotel. The *temporary casino is what's different, but put together this might be slightly bigger than the original floorplan. I have to dig back quite a few pages, because I believe all that was posted in here before.

[vdogg]

In fact, this rendering was released in May of last year. There is no discernable difference. I think everyone is getting confused by the different angles of the newer renderings and the fact that they're closer up. It really seems that they finalized the design sometime ago.

[HRVT]

6 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Thank you for the link, but does that mean that the casino floor will never be any bigger than 45,000 ft.²? It doesn’t say exactly what phase 2 will and will not include. Remember they have to spend $500 million by contract I believe. I don’t think they’re going to make it.

So my question remains: Has the size of the project (especially the gaming floor) been scaled back? Has the total dollar investment been scaled back? Has the architecture been dumbed down? Has much of the glass been removed? It looks like you’re pulling up to an airport from another era. 

An airport pick-up/drop-off area was literally the exact same thought I had. This proposal has gone from amazing to pretty decent to Portsmouth 2.0.

You can go to a shopping mall or an airport for your gambling pleasure. Oooo luxury.

[Norf Native]

In todays news:

https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/06/15/new-renderings-outline-plan-changes-for-headwaters-resort-and-casino-in-norfolk/

The developers of the Norfolk casino project are abandoning plans to build a temporary casino next to Harbor Park stadium and instead say they will build the permanent gaming and resort components in two phases.

HeadWaters Resort and Casino will be the city’s first casino. Initially, the city sought to house a temporary casino inside the baseball stadium while the permanent structure was built. But that idea was scrapped last year, and a plan for a 45,000 square-foot temporary casino was proposed for Harbor Park’s parking lot and was expected to replace 300 parking spots. A project spokesperson said as recently as last month that plans for the temporary casino structure were still it the works.

But new renderings released this week outline changes for the resort and casino, with the entire project planned to be built in two phases.

Phase one will include a 90,000 square-foot “initial facility,” with a 45,000 square-foot casino floor, complete with a sports bar, restaurant and lobby, according to Jay Smith, a spokesperson for the project. Project leaders also plan to build a parking deck with 1,200 parking spaces.

 

Phase two will consist of the hotel, pool, spa, entertainment venue and other resort amenities.

HeadWaters announced this week it submitted a development certificate application for the first phase of the project. If the city approves the plans at the end of the summer, Smith said construction could begin at the end of the year.

There is currently no set schedule for construction on phase two, he said.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Norf Native

[baobabs727]

19 hours ago, vdogg said:

The hotel portion looks the same as the previous renderings that we received last year, there is casino floor still under the hotel. The *temporary casino is what's different, but put together this might be slightly bigger than the original floorplan. I have to dig back quite a few pages, because I believe all that was posted in here before.

 

18 hours ago, vdogg said:

In fact, this rendering was released in May of last year. There is no discernable difference. I think everyone is getting confused by the different angles of the newer renderings and the fact that they're closer up. It really seems that they finalized the design sometime ago.

Ok.  Hoping so. Thanks.

13 hours ago, HRVT said:

An airport pick-up/drop-off area was literally the exact same thought I had. This proposal has gone from amazing to pretty decent to Portsmouth 2.0.

You can go to a shopping mall or an airport for your gambling pleasure. Oooo luxury.

Ugh. I agree. Hoping the new render angles and lighting are just off.  But that huge overhang makes it look very dark in there. There seems to be an emphasis on horizontality,  and there's an apparent compression of height. So it just doesn't seem very grand.  

Edited June 16, 2023 by baobabs727

[baobabs727]

4 hours ago, Norf Native said:

In todays news:

https://www.pilotonline.com/2023/06/15/new-renderings-outline-plan-changes-for-headwaters-resort-and-casino-in-norfolk/

The developers of the Norfolk casino project are abandoning plans to build a temporary casino next to Harbor Park stadium and instead say they will build the permanent gaming and resort components in two phases.

HeadWaters Resort and Casino will be the city’s first casino. Initially, the city sought to house a temporary casino inside the baseball stadium while the permanent structure was built. But that idea was scrapped last year, and a plan for a 45,000 square-foot temporary casino was proposed for Harbor Park’s parking lot and was expected to replace 300 parking spots. A project spokesperson said as recently as last month that plans for the temporary casino structure were still it the works.

But new renderings released this week outline changes for the resort and casino, with the entire project planned to be built in two phases.

Phase one will include a 90,000 square-foot “initial facility,” with a 45,000 square-foot casino floor, complete with a sports bar, restaurant and lobby, according to Jay Smith, a spokesperson for the project. Project leaders also plan to build a parking deck with 1,200 parking spaces.

 

Phase two will consist of the hotel, pool, spa, entertainment venue and other resort amenities.

HeadWaters announced this week it submitted a development certificate application for the first phase of the project. If the city approves the plans at the end of the summer, Smith said construction could begin at the end of the year.

There is currently no set schedule for construction on phase two, he said.

Right, but see it doesn't mention about the gaming floor continuing into the hotel... to get it to the originally proposed size.  It leaves that part a mystery. I'm assuming VDOGG is right, but how do we really know?  Also, aren't they obligated to spend a certain amount... something like 500 million dollars? I'm skeptical as to whether they're going to make it. I'd be surprised if they hit even $350 million.  

[mintscraft56]

Idk, I think im on board with these plans. 

I find this particular rendering to make me happy. 

[HRVA]

Presentation of the design with more renderings and details: HeadWaters Resort and Casino | PDF (scribd.com)

[zeppelin14]

Still not impressed with the hotel portion. To me it still looks nothing more than a Holiday Inn. And a serious question that no one seems to answer. When there's a Tides game, where is everyone supposed to park? Same with Amtrak passengers. Do they have to walk all the way around the casino now?

[Qdeathstar]

22 hours ago, mintscraft56 said:

Idk, I think im on board with these plans. 

I find this particular rendering to make me happy. 

If the hotel part gets built. It’s in the plans but plans are like ********…

Edited June 17, 2023 by Qdeathstar

[mintscraft56]

3 hours ago, zeppelin14 said:

Still not impressed with the hotel portion. To me it still looks nothing more than a Holiday Inn. And a serious question that no one seems to answer. When there's a Tides game, where is everyone supposed to park? Same with Amtrak passengers. Do they have to walk all the way around the casino now?

I mean, since the land is being sold, that nots the casinos problem anymore. Its more like the cities problem now. 

[vdogg]

5 hours ago, zeppelin14 said:

Still not impressed with the hotel portion. To me it still looks nothing more than a Holiday Inn. And a serious question that no one seems to answer. When there's a Tides game, where is everyone supposed to park? Same with Amtrak passengers. Do they have to walk all the way around the casino now?

There's a gigantic parking garage attached to this project, at least 1200 spaces. More spaces than are there now.

[vdogg]

This answers one of the main concerns up thread, the casino floor proper will itself be expanded. Also intrigued by the "entertainment district".

 

[HRVT]

8 hours ago, vdogg said:

This answers one of the main concerns up thread, the casino floor proper will itself be expanded. Also intrigued by the "entertainment district".

 

Most likely, it'll just be 2-3 bars. I wouldn't expect anything earth-shattering.

[Merrittk92]

This is the view that I really, REALLY hope becomes a reality! 
 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Merrittk92

[varider]

https://www.virginiabusiness.com/article/headwaters-developer-scraps-temporary-casino-plans/
 

The plans for the casino that were submitted to the city fell short of Mayor Kenneth Cooper Alexander’s expectations. “Although it may be constructed in phases, I was not expecting them to turn [the plan] in phases,” Alexander said. The mayor added that he was concerned by the lack of concrete details in the plan, as well as a lack of communication from developers on the casino’s application status with the Virginia Lottery, the state regulatory body that must approve the casino’s operating license.

“We continue to ask them for the same information over and over again,” Alexander says. “I want all the details to accompany the pretty pictures. Submit the supporting documentation.”  

 

[BeagleAccountant]

2 hours ago, varider said:

https://www.virginiabusiness.com/article/headwaters-developer-scraps-temporary-casino-plans/
 

The plans for the casino that were submitted to the city fell short of Mayor Kenneth Cooper Alexander’s expectations. “Although it may be constructed in phases, I was not expecting them to turn [the plan] in phases,” Alexander said. The mayor added that he was concerned by the lack of concrete details in the plan, as well as a lack of communication from developers on the casino’s application status with the Virginia Lottery, the state regulatory body that must approve the casino’s operating license.

“We continue to ask them for the same information over and over again,” Alexander says. “I want all the details to accompany the pretty pictures. Submit the supporting documentation.”  

 

Sounds like Kenny needs to work on communication inside city hall before calling others out:

"However, in a March letter sent by the city to the casino developers, the city requested only conceptual details for the future phases of development, while requesting details such as architectural renderings, building elevations and a site layout for the first phase, all of which were provided by the development team."

[Norf Native]

From the 500nations.com website:

Norfolk Casino: Phase 1 Construction Plan

June 17, 2023

HeadWaters Resort & Casino has dropped its plan to build a temporary casino and will instead proceed with full construction of the HeadWaters Casino.
 

When the casino opens, HeadWaters will have a two-year deadline to complete construction of its hotel and improve the amenities along the riverfront.

[baobabs727]

1 hour ago, Norf Native said:

From the 500nations.com website:

Norfolk Casino: Phase 1 Construction Plan

June 17, 2023

HeadWaters Resort & Casino has dropped its plan to build a temporary casino and will instead proceed with full construction of the HeadWaters Casino.
 

When the casino opens, HeadWaters will have a two-year deadline to complete construction of its hotel and improve the amenities along the riverfront.

Or what lol 

 

[vdogg]

1 hour ago, baobabs727 said:

Or what lol 

 

Or they are in default on the deal, land goes back to city, city is free to choose another operator.

[baobabs727]

13 hours ago, vdogg said:

Or they are in default on the deal, land goes back to city, city is free to choose another operator.

Hmmm. And forfeit all that $$$$ investment huh. Yikes. Well, I hope that the City's attorneys were eating their Wheaties when they drafted and approved the controlling document... and also that Yarborough et al didn't slip in a force majeure clause at the 11th hour!  Hoping they meet the state required min. investment of $300M! Rooting for $500M, as promised.

[brikkman]

Sounds like a disaster in the making.

[NFKjeff]

This projects plan goes before Norfolk's Architural Review Board today at 4:00.