Summit Pointe (Under Construction)

[carolinaboy]

Downtown Chesapeake is looking good.

[vdogg]

At the rate they're building Summit Pointe will soon overtake Town Center, having done more in 8 years than AH has managed to accomplish in 24...

[BFG]

If Summit Pointe announces an arena somewhere in Greenbrier, I'm gonna lose it...........

[HRVA]

1 hour ago, BFG said:

If Summit Pointe announces an arena somewhere in Greenbrier, I'm gonna lose it...........

City Council just had a presentation for a multipurpose facility at Summit Pointe…for over $300 million. I don’t see that happening. They’ve also thrown around the idea of a hockey arena at Greenbrier Mall but they don’t control any of that site so it’s purely conceptual. 

https://www.cityofchesapeake.net/DocumentCenter/View/17331/3-12-24-WS-MASTER

[BFG]

Interesting. For $300M (or less), I say consider the arena instead and let Dollar Tree kick in a little more for naming rights. I think you could still get 14-16K seats for that price, with more coming from naming rights. The city's concern is the lack of a venue for events like graduations and the arts, and an arena would at least allow for the former. Maybe still include a small theater and exhibition space.

In the meantime, work on bringing light rail to Greenbrier...

[baobabs727]

On 3/14/2024 at 1:50 PM, vdogg said:

At the rate they're building Summit Pointe will soon overtake Town Center, having done more in 8 years than AH has managed to accomplish in 24...

Woah woah woah...lol....  I know we're all a bit sore at A/H these days, but let's take a hard look at these assertions/feelings. Success depend on how you measure it, right?  "Done more" and "overtake" (your words) are relative and depend on how you quantify them.  So, do we look at # of block build-outs? Total acreage developed? Total sq ft built? Total Class A office sq ft developed?  The # of skyscrapers/towers?  Tallest towers? The # of unique-to-the-market national retailers? The # of unique-to-the-market national restaurant concepts? Total retail sales per sq ft? Tax generation #'s?  The total $$$$ dollars invested? Total # of daytime employees?  Name recognition? Annual visitation #'s? Total # of residential? Rents $$$$?

IMHO, by almost any measure to date, VBTC leaves Summit Pointe in the proverbial dust.

 

Edited March 15 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

3 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Woah woah woah...lol....  I know we're all a bit sore at A/H these days, but let's take a hard look at these assertions/feelings. Success depend on how you measure it, right?  "Done more" and "overtake" (your words) are relative and depend on how you quantify them.  So, do we look at # of block build-outs? Total acreage developed? Total sq ft built? Total Class A office sq ft developed?  The # of skyscrapers/towers?  Tallest towers? The # of unique-to-the-market national retailers? The # of unique-to-the-market national restaurant concepts? Total retail sales per sq ft? Tax generation #'s?  The total $$$$ dollars invested? Total # of daytime employees?  Name recognition? Annual visitation #'s? Total # of residential? Rents $$$$?

IMHO, by almost any measure to date, VBTC leaves Summit Pointe in the proverbial dust.

 

Well, as a lot like of people on the forum like to remind us, towers aren't everything. The office space portion has been stagnant for years, as has residential (the building across from Cosmo, I forget the name, was built around 2018). So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that was the last *major development of any type, residential or otherwise. Since then, AH has been content to relatively coast. I will give them this, retail has filled out nicely, but that too is now fully built out. I think we both agree that they have no intention to do anything with block 2, so let's take that off the board. The land they purchased in Pembroke was purchased solely to prevent others from developing it (that should be illegal, there should be some law or ordinance to prevent that type of anticompetitive squatting). So, when looking at trajectories, the math is simple. TC's curve looks like a plateau, Summit Pointe's looks like a mountain with the "summit" yet to be reached, no downward trajectory in sight. The lines will cross, plain and simple, without a clear and dramatic change in the direction of TC.

[baobabs727]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:30 PM, vdogg said:

Well, as a lot like of people on the forum like to remind us, towers aren't everything. The office space portion has been stagnant for years, as has residential (the building across from Cosmo, I forget the name, was built around 2018). So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that was the last *major development of any type, residential or otherwise. Since then, AH has been content to relatively coast. I will give them this, retail has filled out nicely, but that too is now fully built out. I think we both agree that they have no intention to do anything with block 2, so let's take that off the board. The land they purchased in Pembroke was purchased solely to prevent others from developing it (that should be illegal, there should be some law or ordinance to prevent that type of anticompetitive squatting). So, when looking at trajectories, the math is simple. TC's curve looks like a plateau, Summit Pointe's looks like a mountain with the "summit" yet to be reached, no downward trajectory in sight. The lines will cross, plain and simple, without a clear and dramatic change in the direction of TC.

(My apologies for the 2 zillion edits and additions.  I was attempting to write this mess during a zoom work meeting and hit "enter" prematurely on at least 5 occasions LOL. OOOPS.)

Ohh kayy.  So people here are actually agreeing to the ABSURD notion that SP>VBTC.  (Or that it soon will be so.)  I. simply. cannot. with. this. 

Beam me up, Scottie!!!!

True, Summit Pointe is in a totally different stage of development than is VBTC. VBTC was conceived in the 80s and  90s by Gerald Divaris, and construction began in earnest nearly 25 years ago.  Summit Pointe, on the other hand, a pet project backed by the largess of a Fortune 500 with a singular vision,  has seemingly sprouted up overnight. So, I agree, the relative growth curves are not aligned at the moment. However, VBTC is King, and Summit Pointe still has a major bit of catching up to do relative to ALL of the data points I mentioned above. Data points which you, for the most part and rather conveniently, ignored. LOL.

Bottom line is that despite A/H's perceived "coasting" position, and despite the limited availability of developable land within the VBTC envelope, VBTC STILL has and WILL continue to have the retail edge, the restaurant edge, the Class-A office edge, the investment $$$ edge, the residential edge==most especially relative to the for-purchase/condo market==and the bragging rights edge for the tallest tower in Virginia (for now!)..... And, sorry, but the "TALLness" aspect of neo-urban downtown-type development is still relevant and important, despite your assertion that people around here (wooo hoo, aren't we the special arbiters of all things great in local development!!!) are beginning to poo poo the concept of towers lol. Frankly, I think they're just desperate for development/density/progress of ANY kind at this point. And that's kind of sad imho. 

By the way, the aforementioned advantages that VBTC has over SP will likely exist, by and large/give or take, for years to come. Potentially even in perpetuity.  Yes, please do chew on that for a sec. 

Ok, boss. Let's make a deal. If and when the likes of a Ruth's Chris, Cheesecake Factory, Tupelo Honey, California Pizza, Cantina Laredo, Legal Seafoods, PF Changs, Nandos,  Yard House, Bravo Cucina Italiana, WESTIN, Brooks Brothers, Blue Mercury, Free People, LuluLemon, West Elm, Pottery Barn, Williams Sonoma, Anthropologie, Funny Bone, Lego, Madewell, etc., decide to validate your esteem for Summit Pointe by locating at Summit Pointe, I'll agree with you that Summit Pointe is in some way competitive with VBTC. Moreover, if and when Summit Pointe lands a best-in-class $50M (in 2007 dollars!) performing arts center like the Sandler , plus a Zeiders type theatre, once again, I'll agree with you.  And if and when Summit Pointe, notwithstanding the 500,000 sf corporate HQ for Dollar Tree, develops the likes of 800,000 sf of Class A office, I'll pat you on the back. And if and when Summit Pointe constructs and fully leases 700,000 sf of retail, I'll shout your praises from the mountain tops!! And if and when SP declares itself a $700M development, I will throw you a ticker tape parade! And if and when Summit Pointe is selling  400K-1M, 2M, 3M, 4M, ....("M" stands for Million lol)...Dollar condos, I'll have a beer with you and congratulate you on your having possessed wisdom beyond your years. 

And, truly, I hope that day will come.  Not just because I like beer and wouldn't mind meeting you after all these years. LOL. Nay, I hope you are correct--that SP will one day compete with VBTC on a level playing field-- precisely because I want to see SP grow and grow and grow. For a rising tide lifts all boats in HR. That is my firm and fervent belief.    

Edited March 18 by baobabs727

[HRVA]

VBTC will always reign supreme over Summit Pointe simply because of the fundamentals that backed its development. Summit Pointe wasn’t built on those fundamentals - no investor would have touched this proposal. And it will never attract the unique national tenant mix of VBTC. I’m okay with that and appreciate the local mix that SP has leaned on. They are two very different developments. 

[baobabs727]

40 minutes ago, HRVA said:

VBTC will always reign supreme over Summit Pointe simply because of the fundamentals that backed its development. Summit Pointe wasn’t built on those fundamentals - no investor would have touched this proposal. And it will never attract the unique national tenant mix of VBTC. I’m okay with that and appreciate the local mix that SP has leaned on. They are two very different developments. 

It is written. 

Edited March 18 by baobabs727

[mintscraft56]

I don't understand the comparisons being made here. VBTC and SP are two different developments with two different goals. Infact, we should all be glad at SP and Chesapeake alone. 10ish years ago, if you were to tell me Chesapeake was going to have a downtown I would have ignored you and continued watching spongebob on Nickelodeon (I was 7 years old), HOWEVER If I was my current age I would have laughed it off. 

We are watching a urban area grow in its infancy. Lets applaud it. The one things SP has over VBTC is that fact it has plans of continuous urban expansion, something VBTC stopped doing for years.  All of us in Norfolk wish we had something like this for SPQ. Congrats Chesapeake! 

Though a healthy rivalry wouldn't hurt. Let's just not put one down over the other. 

Edited March 19 by mintscraft56

[mintscraft56]

19 hours ago, HRVA said:

VBTC will always reign supreme over Summit Pointe simply because of the fundamentals that backed its development. Summit Pointe wasn’t built on those fundamentals - no investor would have touched this proposal. And it will never attract the unique national tenant mix of VBTC. I’m okay with that and appreciate the local mix that SP has leaned on. They are two very different developments. 

Never use the word never. We don't know where Summit Pointe is leading but for the foreseeable future it seems like it's headed to a good place. Your right, no one would have thought to build this or touch this. However thank God for Dollar Tree and their investments, because they took a real big risk here. Dollar Tree is literally building a downtown for the heck of it. They didn't need to but they did. I feel like when this gets big enough, its going to capture the eyes of other companies and developers. 

Dollar Tree sees this entire project taking 35 whole years with them expecting to expand greatly. We are watching a downtown being artificially brewed and its working majestically. It's only a matter of time before someone sees this and hops onto the bandwagon. Sooner or later HR might have 3 real downtowns. 

Edited March 19 by mintscraft56

[HRVA]

13 minutes ago, mintscraft56 said:

Never use the word never. We don't know where Summit Pointe is leading but for the foreseeable future it seems like it's headed to a good place. Your right, no one would have thought to build this or touch this. However thank God for Dollar Tree and their investments, because they took a real big risk here. Dollar Tree is literally building a downtown for the heck of it. They didn't need to but they did. I feel like when this gets big enough, its going to capture the eyes of other companies and developers. 

Dollar Tree sees this entire project taking 35 whole years with them expecting to expand greatly. We are watching a downtown being artificially brewed and its working majestically. It's only a matter of time before someone sees this and hops onto the bandwagon. Sooner or later HR might have 3 real downtowns. 

I’m confident using the word never. Summit Pointe currently has ZERO actual retailers. It’s a mix of restaurants and salon services. 

Dollar Tree’s motivation was they needed this type of environment to attract talent/employees. Other developers/investors have taken note and they’re building suburban style developments directly across the street. They’re not buying in. 

[mintscraft56]

You might not be wrong and I might not be right. But one thing is for sure. It's growing. 

[mintscraft56]

On 3/18/2024 at 11:14 AM, baobabs727 said:

For a rising tide lifts all boats in HR.

1. This is a great quote. Im going to quote this alot. 

 

On 3/18/2024 at 11:14 AM, baobabs727 said:

wouldn't mind meeting you after all these years.

2. This just reminds me. All of us must have passed each other, or crossed paths once. We just never knew it.