Amazon: The Thread | 5,000 Jobs | 1M SQFT in Nashville Yards

[Sean blackdog]

Today this morning. 

[KJHburg]

This sounds like Amazon will not tolerate people not coming back into the office at least 3 days a week.   And this would be good for future office development for them in Nashville. 

https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/office/amazon-ceo-demands-workers-return-to-office-120442

[smeagolsfree]

I hope that is the case. If true, this could be a catalyst at some point for the Amazon 3 tower. That is the 600-footer currently on hold.

[Luvemtall]

Does anyone know about the rumors  that one of the reasons why Amazon chose Nashville , was because they plan on pushing into the Healthcare Marketplace making Nashville the HQ of that division? If so and they actually implement that, I would think that if it’s required to be present at the office they will need Tower 3. 

[FromParkAveToTN]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

This sounds like Amazon will not tolerate people not coming back into the office at least 3 days a week.   And this would be good for future office development for them in Nashville. 

https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/office/amazon-ceo-demands-workers-return-to-office-120442

People don't want to go back into the office. If productivity isn't impacted,  then why force people back to the office.  I just told my coworkers that I have no desire to see them face-to-face and I don't really like them. Thank goodness my office is in another state and there's no possible way for me to return to an office. 

[Rick Dalton]

People that actually want to accomplish something go to the office. 

[Nash_12South]

I actually enjoy going into the office the 2/3 days a week I go in. It's a nice change to actually get dressed in "work clothes" and interact with people.  I'm admittedly lucky that my commute is minimal. From what we hear, it is productivity that is driving the crack down on coming in. People have starting taking more and more advantage of being out of sight of bosses. As we left town for a long weekend early last Friday morning, I was surprised to see 4 full lanes of traffic flowing in at 7am (on a Friday). Unless we want downtown to be 99% rowdy tourists, (and not very happy full time residents) we need office workers to balance things out.

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Nash_12South

[GregH]

47 minutes ago, Nash_12South said:

From what we hear, it is productivity that is driving the crack down on coming in

Bullcrap, IMO. Nobody really knows how to measure knowledge work productivity.

[Auntie Yock]

1 hour ago, Nash_12South said:

I actually enjoy going into the office the 2/3 days a week I go in. It's a nice change to actually get dressed in "work clothes" and interact with people.  I'm admittedly lucky that my commute is minimal. From what we hear, it is productivity that is driving the crack down on coming in. People have starting taking more and more advantage of being out of sight of bosses. As we left town for a long weekend early last Friday morning, I was surprised to see 4 full lanes of traffic flowing in at 7am (on a Friday). Unless we want downtown to be 99% rowdy tourists, (and not very happy full time residents) we need office workers to balance things out.

 

Need more sedate tourists and rowdy office workers.

[rolly]

If I'm an office worker, I'm for WFH.

If I'm an skyscraper nerd, then I'm all down for the Come Back To The Office policy. 

[subkyle]

1 hour ago, GregH said:

Bullcrap, IMO. Nobody really knows how to measure knowledge work productivity.

Gotta disagree with you there. There are some people that I know that get their work done well at their house. I also have friends that touch their laptops every few minutes just to signify to their company that they are working. Not every work from home job is the same And productivity has absolutely faltered some 

[Luvemtall]

3 hours ago, FromParkAveToTN said:

People don't want to go back into the office. If productivity isn't impacted,  then why force people back to the office.  I just told my coworkers that I have no desire to see them face-to-face and I don't really like them. Thank goodness my office is in another state and there's no possible way for me to return to an office. 

Sounds like a lazy , privileged, better than you attitude! The company or individual who pays your salary, definitely has the right to set the ground rules . If you don’t like it , find another company. What in the world has happened, hard work and dedication to make commitment is surely lacking these days.

[FromParkAveToTN]

I've been working from home for over 8 years now and I actually work longer hours and even some weekends. I can't imagine going back into an office. 

[BnaBreaker]

4 hours ago, Rick Dalton said:

People that actually want to accomplish something go to the office. 

I think it's pretty clear that whether that is actually true would depend on the individual and the position they hold, no?

[PleinNash]

The demanding attitude about comfort/work is just odd… the overwhelming majority of the world LABORS and must be present to earn a living. Those complaining , their happiness and comfort is dependent on countless present laborers. There is absolutely no replacement for face to face PRESENCE,  Humans are social creatures, after all.  If you want to work from home, start your own business and see how the avoidance of people works out for you. Heck, it might work out perfectly. But an Amazon (or other corporation’s) worker being required to show up in person is not a human rights issue, it shouldn’t even be a labor dispute.  

[MontanaGuy]

I worked as a contractor from home for the phone company after I retired on two occasions  and it happened to be a position that was well suited for someone working from home because the work I needed to do was very specific and very demanding and a worker simply couldn't get away with screwing around all day and accomplish what was needed.  People depended on my completion of my work so that they could do their job.  Not every work from home job is like that though and I'm sure that there are many of them where it's difficult for managers to assess what you're doing all day because so many people are doing a similar task.  I do understand why there's a push in many companies to get people back in the office again but I just wanted to point out that there are certain types of work that function quite well for remote workers who are motivated and don't need to be supervised all day! 

[BnaBreaker]

5 hours ago, PleinNash said:

The demanding attitude about comfort/work is just odd… the overwhelming majority of the world LABORS and must be present to earn a living. Those complaining , their happiness and comfort is dependent on countless present laborers. There is absolutely no replacement for face to face PRESENCE,  Humans are social creatures, after all.  If you want to work from home, start your own business and see how the avoidance of people works out for you. Heck, it might work out perfectly. But an Amazon (or other corporation’s) worker being required to show up in person is not a human rights issue, it shouldn’t even be a labor dispute.  

I don't disagree with most of what you're saying in principle, but again, I think it depends on the sort of person and position in question.  If someone is just doing data entry, or customer service, for example, those are things that can easily be accomplished from home, and higher-ups these days have means of keeping tabs on an employee's productivity remotely.  Also working from home is a great option for working parents and people who's health might make it difficult to travel all the way to an office everyday.  I'm just saying, there is no need for society to make this into a rigid either/or scenario.  

Edited September 1, 2023 by BnaBreaker

[KJHburg]

Some companies are incredibly flexible about work from home.  But others are seeing productivity declines.  Charlotte has many financial and banking jobs and most here have to show up at least 3 times a week.  Our downtown is bustling 3-4 days a week but very light on Friday.  Tech companies have become the absolute most flexible but the big tech companies seem to prefer in office at least 3 times a week.  Insurance companies seem to prefer most work from home.  Allstate here in Charlotte gave up a lot of new office space and it was subleased by a financial company.  State Farm has emptied out of 2 of 3 huge 500,000 sq ft buildings in Atlanta.  Nationwide gave up a 100,000 sq ft office and sent all to work at home but that space in Raleigh was quickly gobbled up by the 2nd largest credit union in the country.   Apple has leased 300,000 plus square of space in the Raleigh Durham area waiting for their huge campus to be built.  My friend works for GlaxoSmithKline and they shrunk their space 90% in the same area.  Centene built a huge brand new campus in Charlotte 600,000 sq ft and has never occupied it another insurance company.  So different companies are taking different paths but one thing is for sure when,not if,  the labor market loosens up you will see more companies requiring new employees to be in office.    I think out of sight is out of mind and in many offices or companies I truly believe the first to be let go will be the ones you never see in the office.  

People are more creative and problem solvers in person than over a Zoom call.  But companies that really cut back on their office space are now rethinking that and an example is AT&T which is requiring people to be in the office most of the week.   My 2nd cousin works for a utility company (in Tennessee)  that tracks every employee who works at home the time they are on their computers very closely with tracking software.   

[FromParkAveToTN]

Companies should give people the option.  The people who likes being around and interacting with other people are free to go back into the office,  but the people who don't want to be around other people and who prefer to only interact via zoom should have the freedom to work remotely. With all the mass shootings going on, I'll never feel safe going back into an orifice. 

[Pdt2f]

16 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

Sounds like a lazy , privileged, better than you attitude! The company or individual who pays your salary, definitely has the right to set the ground rules . If you don’t like it , find another company. What in the world has happened, hard work and dedication to make commitment is surely lacking these days.

Well the issue is that those workers are, in fact, finding other jobs. I’m in IT and it’s absolutely a way to attract and retain better talent if you give the option for WFH. We actually ended up discontinuing working with a company we had contracted with for an application we wanted because when they insisted on their programmers returning to office they all quit and took other jobs. The company effectively shut down for a period of time and when they came back the new programmers just couldn’t match the skill or efficiency of the old. It’s the right of employers to require their employees to come to work, but the employees have no obligation to stay with that company. 
 

As for myself I actually prefer coming into office. My employer offers a WFH day every week but I never do it. I find it hard to take breaks when I’m working at home, and also it creates chaos in the house because I have 3 young kids (with another on the way) and they get upset when daddy is home but can’t play with them. 

[nashville born]

For-profit entities do nothing if not measure productivity.  The two go hand-in-hand.   So, IMO, it's a bit off-base to think productivity can't be measured.  Decisions of how new tactics are deployed, or how certain branches or offices are shut down are primarily determined by "measured productivity."  The notion that this worker recall isn't linked to lower productivity is slightly fantastical.  Said differently and in terms that this crowd might certainly follow, it's the same reason developers often go with boxes, or watered down materials, etc.  Because companies are ALWAYS watching their bottom line.   Always.

MontanaGuy made a comment that reminded me of McGregor's Theory X vs. Y/  A vast majority of companies operate from the theory X construct.  Theory Y speaks to a belief that people are intrinsically motivated and seek to do a good job whether supervised or not.    So yes, many who work from home quite productively are being caught up in this blanket approach to worker recall.  Thank goodness we all have the ability to choose (generally speaking, of course) what we're willing to accept.

I started my professional career at a national credit card bank.  One of the quotes on our walls: What gets measured gets attended to.  What gets attended to gets done.  And trust me, we measured everything.  

Edited September 1, 2023 by nashville born

[Rick Dalton]

9 hours ago, FromParkAveToTN said:

Companies should give people the option.  The people who likes being around and interacting with other people are free to go back into the office,  but the people who don't want to be around other people and who prefer to only interact via zoom should have the freedom to work remotely. With all the mass shootings going on, I'll never feel safe going back into an orifice. 

This is a serious post? Afraid to leave your house because of shootings? Also I agree that people should have the flexibility to WFH, but they will be passed over for raises and promotions 

[GregH]

13 minutes ago, nashville born said:

So, IMO, it's a bit off-base to think productivity can't be measured.

 

I'm speaking about knowledge work in particular*. My work involves a wide ranges of tasks but none of them are countable widgets. Certainly if I were slacking off it would in some way trickle down to the bottom line along with every other little variable, but there's no graph you can point at at say "Look here, Greg's production has declined". If there was, it would be very popular and everyone would use it! And even if productivity has declined it's extremely difficult to attribute causation to that, there's a lot of weird stuff going on right now, it could be many things or (probably) a combination of things. For example, I think most people would agree that switching to a new job results in lowered productivity for a period until you get your feet under you. That's happened at a nearly unprecedented rate lately across the economy.

I definitely believe companies are seeing metric declines they don't like, but mostly I think the "back to the office" push is 1) trying to pull a lever that can be pulled, whether you know it will work or not 2) reasoning backwards to justify management's default preference .

 

*I did see a study showing measured reduced remote productivity, but it was, iirc, specific to data entry tasks.

Edited September 1, 2023 by GregH

[nashville born]

27 minutes ago, GregH said:

I'm speaking about knowledge work in particular*. My work involves a wide ranges of tasks but none of them are countable widgets. Certainly if I were slacking off it would in some way trickle down to the bottom line along with every other little variable, but there's no graph you can point at at say "Look here, Greg's production has declined". If there was, it would be very popular and everyone would use it! And even if productivity has declined it's extremely difficult to attribute causation to that, there's a lot of weird stuff going on right now, it could be many things or (probably) a combination of things. For example, I think most people would agree that switching to a new job results in lowered productivity for a period until you get your feet under you. That's happened at a nearly unprecedented rate lately across the economy.

I definitely believe companies are seeing metric declines they don't like, but mostly I think the "back to the office" push is 1) trying to pull a lever that can be pulled, whether you know it will work or not 2) reasoning backwards to justify management's default preference .

 

*I did see a study showing measured reduced remote productivity, but it was, iirc, specific to data entry tasks.

Understood.  No argument here.

[Luvemtall]

Regardless of what might be someone’s prospective, big brother is always watching! Does anyone really believe that who ever you work for is going to tell you that you’re being monitored? Come on people, especially you IT folks you know you’re being monitored.