Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge

[Nathan_in_DC]

Cities can increase capacity in their respective CBDs simply by creating or maintaining a coherent network of one-way streets. While the available laneage remains the same, one-way streets create higher throughput at intersections and also result in fewer conflict points for vehicles and pedestrians (the latter of which should be the primary mode of travel considered when designing a downtown district). It's true that some drivers find them intimidating or have a harder time navigating, but having a clear and well-signed system reduces that considerably.

Unfortunately the trend is to remove one-way streets, not create or maintain them. Some are unnecessary, where volumes don't warrant it or where it is incongruous with the wider road network. But it seems like a lot of the motivation is just to make routes more direct for drivers. That's great, unless the time saved by not rounding a block is wasted sitting in traffic.

Exactly. A well designed, gridded, one way street system works splendidly in most older major downtown areas. New York and Philadelphia's streets are almost exclusively one way except for major boulevards, even DC has a significant portion of its streets set as one way, with up to 4 lanes. 

[tragenvol]

Downtown roads are the way they are, there is really nothing we can do about them in terms of widening to make new lanes.  But in saying that I just spent the last week in Austin (bachelor party last Thursday evening through Sunday then went to some construction sites through an architect friend through yesterday) and is there any other major town that has a bulk of it's downtown with 1 lane roads each way?  Most cities have at a minimum 4 (2 each way).  That really concerns me and makes me think that future density will cause a huge traffic jail, making the need for light rail or something to that effect all the more important.   Assuming whatever budget they come up with it comes close to that since I have truly never seen a major government project that was done on time and under or close to budget (I know wishful thinking).

Aren't major government projects bid out to contractors who then turn to subcontractors who are both responsible to pay penalties for time and cost overages?  Frequently, on major government projects, the winning bid doesn't deliver timely or as cheaply as promised because of the nature of securing the contract....low bidding.

Mass transit overhaul for the area will require realistic goals and vigilant overview....as I'm sure will happen or will at least be intended by the region's civic leaders.

[Nashville Cliff]

Aren't major government projects bid out to contractors who then turn to subcontractors who are both responsible to pay penalties for time and cost overages?  Frequently, on major government projects, the winning bid doesn't deliver timely or as cheaply as promised because of the nature of securing the contract....low bidding.

Mass transit overhaul for the area will require realistic goals and vigilant overview....as I'm sure will happen or will at least be intended by the region's civic leaders.

True that.  Also, we know about government overruns because it is public information that they have to share.  It's not that the private sector is always more efficient, but they don't have to tell anyone (except maybe their shareholders) when they aren't. 

[Neigeville2]

Downtown roads are the way they are, there is really nothing we can do about them in terms of widening to make new lanes.  But in saying that I just spent the last week in Austin (bachelor party last Thursday evening through Sunday then went to some construction sites through an architect friend through yesterday) and is there any other major town that has a bulk of it's downtown with 1 lane roads each way?  Most cities have at a minimum 4 (2 each way).  That really concerns me and makes me think that future density will cause a huge traffic jail, making the need for light rail or something to that effect all the more important.   Assuming whatever budget they come up with it comes close to that since I have truly never seen a major government project that was done on time and under or close to budget (I know wishful thinking).

In my experience there is a huge difference in the width of streets in the core of various cities, with western cities having remarkably wide roads, and they get narrower as you go east.  Personally I love the enclosed feel of narrow streets lined with medium to tall buildings, one of my few complaints about San Francisco (and the wide streets there encourage cars to drive at speeds I think are unsafe for pedestrians).  I wish Commerce was still narrow, it seems absurdly wide, empty and dead to me.  

As far as the convenience of drivers, I would be more concerned with keeping the interstates moving, the few blocks you're driving after you get off, you can put up with some traffic.  I don't want cars moving at high speeds through downtown.

[CenterHill]

In my experience there is a huge difference in the width of streets in the core of various cities, with western cities having remarkably wide roads, and they get narrower as you go east.  Personally I love the enclosed feel of narrow streets lined with medium to tall buildings, one of my few complaints about San Francisco (and the wide streets there encourage cars to drive at speeds I think are unsafe for pedestrians).  I wish Commerce was still narrow, it seems absurdly wide, empty and dead to me.  

As far as the convenience of drivers, I would be more concerned with keeping the interstates moving, the few blocks you're driving after you get off, you can put up with some traffic.  I don't want cars moving at high speeds through downtown.

I tend to be in the narrow streets camp also.    I prefer the more intimate feel and energy, and love walking around downtown Nashville, being able to see and shout hello to someone walking on the opposite side of the street.   Similar to the neighborhoods and smaller streets of lower Manhattan, central Boston and almost any European city.    

Contrast with downtowns like St. Louis and Salt Lake City, both of which I love, but many of the downtown streets are dauntingly wide and, yes, with traffic that moves at speeds that put pedestrians on the defensive.      

[Nathan_in_DC]

I tend to be in the narrow streets camp also.    I prefer the more intimate feel and energy, and love walking around downtown Nashville, being able to see and shout hello to someone walking on the opposite side of the street.   Similar to the neighborhoods and smaller streets of lower Manhattan, central Boston and almost any European city.    

Contrast with downtowns like St. Louis and Salt Lake City, both of which I love, but many of the downtown streets are dauntingly wide and, yes, with traffic that moves at speeds that put pedestrians on the defensive.      

I was thinking this exact same thing two weekends ago while wandering through Philadelphia. I've gotten so used to the wide boulevards of DC that I forgot how much I preferred narrow, human-scale streetscapes like you'll find in older cities. It's just a more intimate feel that makes it easier to connect with the city. DC is good, don't get me wrong, but I miss that experience immensely.

[MidTenn1]

You get streetscapes like this...

 

However, the narrow streets are a drawback because of the lack of room for rail or BRT mass transit. An important part of the success of the Cleveland BRT system, which I rode several times, is the availability of parallel, wide side streets which can carry additional vehicular traffic along the same corridor.

[CenterHill]

^ love the effect you put on that picture looking up Third Ave

[CenterHill]

However, the narrow streets are a drawback because of the lack of room for rail or BRT mass transit. An important part of the success of the Cleveland BRT system, which I rode several times, is the availability of parallel, wide side streets which can carry additional vehicular traffic along the same corridor.

True, there's a trade off.    In Nashville's case, you still have options for running BRT through the CBD.     Charlotte, Commerce, Broadway and KVB are all wide enough to accommodate east-west.    2nd and Rosa Parks would work north-south.    As the CBD footprint continues to expand north and south, and gradually west with the Lifeway campus, we are less constrained to locate transit routes right through the "old" CBD with its narrower streets.   

 

[UTgrad09]

You can still run BRT on narrow streets...just run them on one lane of a one way street, like 2nd and 4th.

[smeagolsfree]

I am in Tucson right now and they have a railed tram running through the the downtown to the UofA campus and back. Something like this could work very well here. It allows drivers to be in same lane as the rails. It would have to be on the wider streets to work.

[RonCamp]

You can still run BRT on narrow streets...just run them on one lane of a one way street, like 2nd and 4th.

Exactly.

It may not be popular, but all of our downtown streets have room for at least three lanes... if you remove all street parking.  That makes it easy to add BRT, bike lanes, urban streetcar, light rail, traffic calming pedestrian areas with bollards, etc.  

You'd think that Premier Parking and SP+ would be lobbying for exactly this.  Parking rates would shoot up and people would be forced to either pay or get out of their cars and walk a little.  They could still park on the periphery and walk in.  Or bike.  Or Uber.  Or demand transit from the government.    

Imagine.  A downtown that's focused on something other than cars!  

There's a saying among the urban planning community that goes something like, "If you design cities for cars and traffic, you get cars and traffic.  If you design cities for people and places, you get people and places."

Which one will Nashville choose in the next phase of our development?

[PruneTracy]

It may not be popular, but all of our downtown streets have room for at least three lanes... if you remove all street parking.  That makes it easy to add BRT, bike lanes, urban streetcar, light rail, traffic calming pedestrian areas with bollards, etc.  

You'd think that Premier Parking and SP+ would be lobbying for exactly this.  Parking rates would shoot up and people would be forced to either pay or get out of their cars and walk a little.  They could still park on the periphery and walk in.  Or bike.  Or Uber.  Or demand transit from the government.

I would retain the on-street parking wherever practical. It has its own traffic-calming benefits, provides a buffer between vehicular and pedestrian traffic, and can still accommodate space for things like foliage, bulb-outs at intersections and crossings, even (eye roll) cafe seating where sidewalks are too narrow otherwise.

Eliminating on-street parking would also perpetuate the existence of the "pocket" surface parking lots, the ones that are too small for a car hole or a high-rise development but are still very much underutilized in terms of density and use. These are slowly but surely getting eaten up and it would be nice for the CBD to continue on that trajectory.

That being said, Metro could stand to institute policies that make on-street parking more palatable, like making the zones more consistent, changing the configuration where possible (i.e., back-in angle parking), and active management of the spaces to increase utilization and turnover, such as variable fees and systems that track and highlight vacancies. I'm not saying downtown needs to be covered by them, but they can be worth the space they take up if designed and managed properly.

[RonCamp]

I would retain the on-street parking wherever practical. It has its own traffic-calming benefits, provides a buffer between vehicular and pedestrian traffic, and can still accommodate space for things like foliage, bulb-outs at intersections and crossings, even (eye roll) cafe seating where sidewalks are too narrow otherwise.

Eliminating on-street parking would also perpetuate the existence of the "pocket" surface parking lots, the ones that are too small for a car hole or a high-rise development but are still very much underutilized in terms of density and use. These are slowly but surely getting eaten up and it would be nice for the CBD to continue on that trajectory.

That being said, Metro could stand to institute policies that make on-street parking more palatable, like making the zones more consistent, changing the configuration where possible (i.e., back-in angle parking), and active management of the spaces to increase utilization and turnover, such as variable fees and systems that track and highlight vacancies. I'm not saying downtown needs to be covered by them, but they can be worth the space they take up if designed and managed properly.

Agree that street parking should be retained where practical and/or needed.

I just meant that the "there's no room for BRT / bike lanes / added pedestrian infrastructure / [whatever]" statement isn't really true when, on many downtown streets, you could easily get rid of street parking to make room for these items.

Street parking is a great thing for streets where transit lanes or other elements noted above aren't needed.  It provides a buffer between vehicular traffic and sidewalks and reduces the distance pedestrians need to traverse when crossing streets, increasing safety. 

[donNdonelson2]

Enforcement of street parking limits seems spotty and infrequent. Too often Nashville on street parking simply functions as a linear surface parking lot because the same cars stay parked all day despite time limits and expired meters! Nights and weekends I see lines of cars parked in what would appear to be driving lanes, Commerce Street in particular but not exclusively. Not a ticket to be seen. Even streets marked with "no parking 4:00 to 5:30pm" zones do not seem regularly enforced these days.

[PruneTracy]

Agree that street parking should be retained where practical and/or needed.

I just meant that the "there's no room for BRT / bike lanes / added pedestrian infrastructure / [whatever]" statement isn't really true when, on many downtown streets, you could easily get rid of street parking to make room for these items.

Street parking is a great thing for streets where transit lanes or other elements noted above aren't needed.  It provides a buffer between vehicular traffic and sidewalks and reduces the distance pedestrians need to traverse when crossing streets, increasing safety. 

Gotcha. Yeah, that is a dumb argument, especially when we also have this issue—

Enforcement of street parking limits seems spotty and infrequent. Too often Nashville on street parking simply functions as a linear surface parking lot because the same cars stay parked all day despite time limits and expired meters! Nights and weekends I see lines of cars parked in what would appear to be driving lanes, Commerce Street in particular but not exclusively. Not a ticket to be seen. Even streets marked with "no parking 4:00 to 5:30pm" zones do not seem regularly enforced these days.

I heard this a lot attending the Amp public meetings, that we couldn't afford to give up a travel lane on West End during peak periods. Really? Because it's usually unavailable anyway, if not from illegally-parked cars and trucks throughout, then from the line for the Starbucks at 30th. It's coffee, people, they have some at your office. Get out of the way.

[MLBrumby]

There is a critical need for more condos in the pipeline, and Ray Hensler is considering another condo tower.  His 1212 will be sold out by the end of the year, and City Lights has not broken ground. 505CST will not be completed for nearly three years.  Would be ideal time for Alliance to build a new Gulch tallest for condos at the Mazda site.  

From Getahn Ward at the Tennessean... http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/real-estate/2015/10/16/condo-market-craves-new-downtown-high-rise/74018412/

And from the Post, a pictorial of some of the projects under construction in the core and Midtown. The pictures were taken on a recent morning ("Nashville Rising") by Nicholas Sala... http://nashvillepost.com/news/2015/9/20/nashville_rising

 

[gannman]

Render showing the backside of The Bridge Hotel

 

[MLBrumby]

Love it!  Wish something like that would go up on that parking lot between First and Second on Church. Imagine an impressive looking hotel or apartment building of 7-8 stories and done "old style" like that.  If it had u/g parking there would still be an opportunity to draw revenue from that source.

[CenterHill]

Render showing the backside of The Bridge Hotel

 

what's the latest on this?     Walked by the lot yesterday and no signs of life.     

[MidTenn1]

I thought I saw demolition underway on the Goodyear shop on 8th (Rosa Parks at the point?) where the Cambria Suites are proposed.

 

This 18 story Cambria Suites was just announced in Miami (see below for rendering)!! Looks like they are thinking large, now.

 

NOTE; BELOW IMAGE IS NOT A NASHVILLE PROPOSAL!!  

Edited October 17, 2015 by PHofKS

[wmaddbb2018]

I thought I saw demolition underway on the Goodyear shop on 8th (Rosa Parks at the point?) where the Cambria Suites are proposed.

 

This 18 story Cambria Suites was just announced in Miami (see below for rendering)!! Looks like they are thinking large, now.

 

NOTE; BELOW IMAGE IS NOT A NASHVILLE PROPOSAL!!  

I guess it's just relative to where the building is being built.  Since it's in Miami the land would cost so much that it would have to be in that range?

[markhollin]

The lot where the Cambria is to be built is basically 1/4 of a block square---not really that much square footage. So I can see it being more vertical than other Cambria's.  I'm still guessing it will be at least 12 stories.  

[Mr_Bond]

The Buckingham tower is approved and Terrazzo got much of what it was asking for.  This is a win-win-win for Buckingham, Gulch residents and business owners, and the city!

[gannman]

Hopefully it's not like the one recently proposed for Memphis: