NC Civil Rights

[DMann]

The GA cannot back down, they need the court to overturn it to save face.

[CLTProductions]

The questions the judge asked today were very promising. Not having an enforcement mechanism I think is going to be key. It's clear HB2 was never intended to actually solve any problems and I think/hope the judge is seeing that there's no need for it. 

 

Now my question to those in the know, what happens if the judge takes the position of logic/reason/reality and decides HB2 is as stupid as we all know it is? Is it struck down immediately and goes away?

if so, it's frightening to thing the NCGA will probably just get to work on a stronger, more carefully worded hate bill to enact hastily. 

[cltbwimob]

1 hour ago, Jayvee said:

Now my question to those in the know, what happens if the judge takes the position of logic/reason/reality and decides HB2 is as stupid as we all know it is? Is it struck down immediately and goes away?

My understanding is that the judge is hearing arguments now for an injunction to stop the "enforcement" of the law  (I use the word "enforcement" here very loosely because truthfully there really is no way to actually enforce this exercise in asininity).  If he issues the injunction, then the law will still be on the books, but will be officially unenforceable until it goes before a full hearing where its constitutionality will be determined.  Assuming the judge then sides with reason, the law will be officially struck down.  Of course, you can expect the holy crusaders of arbitrary morality to appeal the law, but each time they do, the courts will likely reaffirm the decision to strike it down or just refuse to hear the case.  Along the way, the NCGOP will bring nothing but shame upon the state, but hey, that's what jackasses do.

[kermit]

I have lost track but I think McCrory has signed at least 5 laws that were later deemed to be unconstitutional. Not only is this hugely embarrassing but it is also expensive for taxpayers as well as a waste of manpower in the GA.

When NC begins to move out of our self-imposed dark-ages over the next few election cycles I would like to see us enact several reforms on state government. First, non-partisan redistricting (so we get the legislature we actually vote for). Second, switching to home-rule for cities (so state-level micromanagement stops). Finally, require that a bond be posted by the gov (or governor's party) that is used to pay some of the state's cost in defending legislation that is incompetently created (e.g. later deemed by the judiciary to unconstitutional) In essesence the governor would have some skin in the game which might 1) make our GA slightly more productive (by forcing them to focus on what is realistic) and 2) prevent the McCrory puppet situation we are dealing with now (McCrory would sign far fewer bills if he feared that the legal defense costs would come out of his party's pockets). 

I do realize all three changes (particulalry the Dillion's rule change) are unlikely to happen, but I really do believe we need to start thinking about changes that will limit the future damages created by our state government when they act incompetently. 

 

 

[CLTProductions]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

I have lost track but I think McCrory has signed at least 5 laws that were later deemed to be unconstitutional. Not only is this hugely embarrassing but it is also expensive for taxpayers as well as a waste of manpower in the GA.

I do agree MAJOR changes are needed at the JV level we call state government. That said, it likely won't happen even if the democrats take control. Do you know what those 5(ish) laws are besides the voter ID one?

Also, after some rough calculations we need the dems to gain 4 seats (possible) in the House and/or 5 seats in the Senate (impossible) as well as a Cooper win to prevent further damage from the GOP. What this would do is give the gov and take away the veto override powers. Cooper would be able to veto any nonsense the GOP sends his way and would hopefully at least have the House to not get the 3/5ths of an override (dems arent the right answer either, Cooper is an idiot and a puppet too, but at least no more damage would be done on a social issue PR level). This is a longshot and its scary. 

[kermit]

1 hour ago, Jayvee said:

Cooper is an idiot and a puppet too

I can't agree with this. He has a stronger  and more consistent legislative track record than McCrory and he has acted sensibly as AG.

[deleted]

5 hours ago, kermit said:

When NC begins to move out of our self-imposed dark-ages over the next few election cycles I would like to see us enact several reforms on state government. First, non-partisan redistricting (so we get the legislature we actually vote for). Second, switching to home-rule for cities (so state-level micromanagement stops). Finally, require that a bond be posted by the gov (or governor's party) that is used to pay some of the state's cost in defending legislation that is incompetently created (e.g. later deemed by the judiciary to unconstitutional) In essesence the governor would have some skin in the game which might 1) make our GA slightly more productive (by forcing them to focus on what is realistic) and 2) prevent the McCrory puppet situation we are dealing with now (McCrory would sign far fewer bills if he feared that the legal defense costs would come out of his party's pockets). 

1.  Non-partisan redistricting is my number 1 state issue.  It should be done by a computer and intentionally created safe districts should be eliminated.  100% agree.

2.  This could go either way.  Municipalities could opt out of education standards, expand gun rights, codify discrimination, etc.  Generally agree but not a no-brainer for liberals or conservatives.

3.  This one seems highly unrealistic (though creative).

What about term limits for the legislature?  I'd be for that 100% also.

Regarding Cooper, I suspect he'd act in the best interests of Democrats just as McCrory has (unsuccessfully) tried to for Republicans.

We're going to elect either Trump or Clinton (I never thought I'd prefer Hillary to anyone but Trump is the most dangerous American politician since George Wallace and Joe McCarthy).  The electorate are morons and the parties are unbelievably corrupt.  We're screwed if people keep looking to these two parties for help... 

 

[CLTProductions]

You forgot the quotes around trump being a politician. Also term limits are the NUMBER ONE issue in this country. If there were limits on the legislature nation wide that would instantly help problems of corruption, puppeteering, bribery etc

[kermit]

7 hours ago, Jayvee said:

 Do you know what those 5(ish) laws are besides the voter ID one?

I was wrong, its not five laws overturned by the courts, its actually six. HB2 appears likely to be the 7th. Regardless of how you feel about the specific legislation, each one of these is an indicator of McCrory and the GA serving the public incompetently.

"State or federal courts have rejected the legislature on:

• Separation of powers – The state Supreme Court ruled the legislature over-reached when it sought to control a panel set up to deal with the state’s coal ash crisis.
• Congressional redistricting – Unconstitutional gerrymandering forced federal courts to demand a special primary election this year for members of the U.S. House of Representatives.
• Local school board and county commissioner districts – Unprompted, the legislature redrew Wake County Commission and School Board districts, which federal courts rejected.
• Teacher association payroll deduction – State courts found the legislature’s effort to prevent the N.C. Association of Educators from using payroll deduction to collect dues was illegal.
• Judicial “retention” elections – The state Supreme Court rejected an effort to change direct election of state Supreme Court justices to so-called retention elections, a thinly-veiled attempt to protect Republican justices.
• Voter ID and other ballot-access changes – In a scathing and unsparing opinion the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals just last week labeled unconstitutional and racist, a series of changes to the state’s elections laws that curtailed voting rights of African Americans."

From http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2016/08/01/editorial-list-of-nc-laws-struck-down-as-unconstitutional-continues-to-grow/#sthash.9VlnXpyE.dpuf

4 hours ago, JBS said:

2.  This could go either way.  Municipalities could opt out of education standards, expand gun rights, codify discrimination, etc.  Generally agree but not a no-brainer for liberals or conservatives.

It really should be a no brainier for conservatives since they spend so much time talking about how small government and government that is "close to the people" is the best government. Seems like the right needs legal assistance to be ideologically consistent these days. 

[kermit]

Speaking of legislative malpractice:

The legislature has run up a $9 million tab on private attorneys to defend its legislation. This is 20 times what was spent over the previous decade. Most of the expenditures were on their voter id "laws"

http://www.wral.com/legislature-s-legal-bills-top-9m-in-defense-of-state-laws/15905135/

[SgtCampsalot]

47 minutes ago, kermit said:

Speaking of legislative malpractice:

The legislature has run up a $9 million tab on private attorneys to defend its legislation. This is 20 times what was spent over the previous decade. Most of the expenditures were on their voter id "laws"

http://www.wral.com/legislature-s-legal-bills-top-9m-in-defense-of-state-laws/15905135/

So HB2 is now officially a "Disaster", as they are raiding the NC Disaster Relief Fund to pay for this. Facepalm.

[JRNYP2C]

I did see an article in the Observer over the weekend (cue skepticism here), that McCrory did NOT give the OK to raid the Disaster Relief Fund.  Without getting into an outright argument with everyone on this issue here on the board, I honestly don't know WHAT to believe on this issue.  I would HOPE against hope that he is not doing something so foolish, but with all of his recent shenanigans, I can't put 100% faith in his words.

[grodney]

1 hour ago, JRNYP2C said:

I did see an article in the Observer over the weekend (cue skepticism here), that McCrory did NOT give the OK to raid the Disaster Relief Fund.  Without getting into an outright argument with everyone on this issue here on the board, I honestly don't know WHAT to believe on this issue.  I would HOPE against hope that he is not doing something so foolish, but with all of his recent shenanigans, I can't put 100% faith in his words.

"

North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory's administration says money transferred from a disaster relief fund to his office won't be used to defend House Bill 2 in court as legislators directed it should.

Instead, McCrory's top lawyer said late Friday the governor will keep using other available funds from agencies to cover those outside legal expenses.

There are several lawsuits on H.B. 2, which directs people to use restrooms in schools and government buildings corresponding to the sex on their birth certificates. It also limits local LGBT non-discrimination ordinances.

The General Assembly passed a bill moving $500,000 from the disaster fund to McCrory for the expenses, but McCrory let it become law without his signature because he wanted funds to come from Attorney General Roy Cooper, who won't defend the law.

"

I mean that makes it sound like the money was indeed transferred, but his administration is claiming they won't use it for hb2.  I don't know how that works....money is money.

[kermit]

HB2's impact on our economy is all about perception:

 

[cltbwimob]

On August 2, 2016 at 2:04 PM, kermit said:

I was wrong, its not five laws overturned by the courts, its actually six. HB2 appears likely to be the 7th. Regardless of how you feel about the specific legislation, each one of these is an indicator of McCrory and the GA serving the public incompetently.

"State or federal courts have rejected the legislature on:

• Separation of powers – The state Supreme Court ruled the legislature over-reached when it sought to control a panel set up to deal with the state’s coal ash crisis.
• Congressional redistricting – Unconstitutional gerrymandering forced federal courts to demand a special primary election this year for members of the U.S. House of Representatives.
• Local school board and county commissioner districts – Unprompted, the legislature redrew Wake County Commission and School Board districts, which federal courts rejected.
• Teacher association payroll deduction – State courts found the legislature’s effort to prevent the N.C. Association of Educators from using payroll deduction to collect dues was illegal.
• Judicial “retention” elections – The state Supreme Court rejected an effort to change direct election of state Supreme Court justices to so-called retention elections, a thinly-veiled attempt to protect Republican justices.
• Voter ID and other ballot-access changes – In a scathing and unsparing opinion the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals just last week labeled unconstitutional and racist, a series of changes to the state’s elections laws that curtailed voting rights of African Americans."

From http://pulse.ncpolicywatch.org/2016/08/01/editorial-list-of-nc-laws-struck-down-as-unconstitutional-continues-to-grow/#sthash.9VlnXpyE.dpuf

It really should be a no brainier for conservatives since they spend so much time talking about how small government and government that is "close to the people" is the best government. Seems like the right needs legal assistance to be ideologically consistent these days. 

Add this to the list:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article95294397.html

Federal judges, on Thursday, threw out 28 state legislative districts drawn by our Reichpublican legislature in 2011. 

[caterpillar2]

8 hours ago, cltbwimob said:

Add this to the list:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article95294397.html

Federal judges, on Thursday, threw out 28 state legislative districts drawn by our Reichpublican legislature in 2011. 

 

[jednc]

11 hours ago, caterpillar2 said:

 

This seems to happen a lot...

[kermit]

nm (thanks Toz)

[tozmervo]

7 hours ago, kermit said:

Looks like we will soon be able to add corruption indictments to the list of NCGOP schinanigans. 

www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article95317852.html

I believe that article states the DHHS contract investigation was dropped because no wrongdoing was found, but would be reopened if more evidence was presented. 

[kermit]

^ oops, I'll just slink over to the corner and work on my reading comprehinsion skills. Mea culpa.

[caterpillar2]

Maybe bathrooms should be designated as 1. (those that give a crap who uses them) and 2. (those that don't give a crap.)  That way no modifications would need to be made and only the signs would need changing.

[CLT704]

1 hour ago, caterpillar2 said:

Maybe bathrooms should be designated as 1. (those that give a crap who uses them) and 2. (those that don't give a crap.)  That way no modifications would need to be made and only the signs would need changing.

But then people who would want to use "Bathroom 1", would be mixed with everyone, putting people "more at risk" than allowing a few transgender people to access the bathroom of their choosing. "Bathroom 1" would put women and children in more "danger" than the Charlotte Ordinance. 

[caterpillar2]

37 minutes ago, CLT704 said:

But then people who would want to use "Bathroom 1", would be mixed with everyone, putting people "more at risk" than allowing a few transgender people to access the bathroom of their choosing. "Bathroom 1" would put women and children in more "danger" than the Charlotte Ordinance. 

The way I see it, the biggest threat are guys pissing on the comode lids.  I believe that if people flush and piss accurately, everything should be just fine.

 

[jednc]

3 hours ago, caterpillar2 said:

Maybe bathrooms should be designated as 1. (those that give a crap who uses them) and 2. (those that don't give a crap.)  That way no modifications would need to be made and only the signs would need changing.

 

Wait, I've had this backwards my whole life! I thought 1. was people who did not give a crap and 2. was for people who did. 

[kermit]

Would the last event to leave NCover HB2 please turn out the lights....

No more NCAAchampionship events for NC while HB2 exists: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/article101464492.html#storylink=mainstage

interestingly Cary takes the biggest hit from this.

The article also quotes John Swofford who says he will move ACC events (but not those occuring this year) if HB2 is not changed. He does sound like he really doesn't want to move the football game (he has very limited options based on the poor performance of the game when it was in Florida), but was clear that he will.

Edit: did the NCGOP hire a nine year old to be their spokesperson?